GRRM confirms: TWOW not done yet

[Rho'd Berth]

He had a once in a lifetime chance to make a tv series about something he's worked extremely hard to create, and took it.

As for your moral obligation, he will finish it. Just not as fast as you'd like, that's a huge difference and to that i say...he works are his own pace and that's life. Not much we can do about it.

Yup, that's exactly what I said.

I am sorry, but WTF are you talking about? Moral obligation?

The thing about finishing ASOIAF is that we should just all shut up and let GRRRM does it on his own way. You don't like to wait, well, too bad, some books need time. LOTR needed time and the universe was much simpler, and on the other hand you have Wheel of time and 14 books in 20+ years. IDK what you all think about this, but simply put, Martin has no moral obligation to no one. You bought the book, you haven't subscribed to entire series. You haven't given him the money for TWOW or ADOS so he would feel morally obliged to give you the product. This criticism is flawed in root since simply it counts on GRRM to be "fans' bitch" He is not and he should do whatever he wants. If tomorrow he wants to stop writing, I would be sad, but not angry. I mean, he is a human not typing machine. So, there is no moral obligation to anyone other than his artistic ambition and drive to finish what he started.

yup, exactly what I said: he's working on it, it needs time, he doesn't need our pressure. I hope that you got that I also agree with all of that. I'm not bitching at GRRM.

And yes, a moral obligation is something different then a legal obligation. All you talk about is a legal obligation, I didn't pay yet for WoW or ADOS, etc.

I acknowlege that.

But 'moral obligation' means just that nobody can force you, but it is very expected of you.

People have invested in his story, both financial and emotional, and most probably the emotional part is the most important one there.

It's as if I start to play a game of monopoly with 3 friends, and after half an hour I don't feel like continuing to play. I then have a moral obligation to finish the game, because I would otherwise ruin the pleasure for my friends, and I commited to the game by starting it. I have no legal obligation, I can just walk away, and that is my full right to do.

Yet I have a moral obligation.

I'm just making that case not b/c I want to push GRRM in any way. He's doing great, I support him. He needs and deserves his time. I loved all books, including aFFC and Dance. I think GRRM is brilliant, he's an amazing guy. In touch with his fan community, etc. etc. I have not a single complaint about GRRM. I may be one of his biggest fans. But yet if people start to claim that he has no moral obligation, then I protest against that. He has one.

[Mladen]

I may be one of his biggest fans. But yet if people start to claim that he has no moral obligation, then I protest against that. He has one.

I am so sorry, but no he does not. He has no moral obligation towards his fans to finish the books. Your monopoly analogy is also flawed because in it, everyone agreed on playing the game. Martin simply plays his own game and we are looking for results. If we never see the results, yes, I imagine we will all be saddened and infuriated, but alas he has no moral or whatsoever obligation towards us. Him finishing the novels isn't the right thing unless he feels it is the right thing. And that is the end of it. We, the fans have become rather nasty group. We talk about moral obligations, pressure we create, we even have f***ing expectations. Oh no, it's not just that he finishes the series, it's about ending being satisfactory and that we have it in time we need. We bitch about everything and discuss "moral obligations" when the simple truth is that we have become the needy, spoiled children who are yelling because their mum isn't buying ice cream.

As GRRM said, writing isn't democracy. The fact the modern world brought us these sites, forums, celebrity culture and abundance of self-proclaimed critics on all sorts of social network speaks volumes about how people changed. Now, we are demanding, we call upon "moral obligations", we hypocritically feel betrayed and hurt because our favorite author doesn't treat us like children. Well, guess what, he will do what he wants. If you can't deal with that, find some other author and make of him the slave of "moral obligations" fans created.

Simply put, grow up, people...

[Rho'd Berth]

When you sell a book that ends with a cliffhanger, with the plan to write more books that resolve that cliffhanger, then you agree with your customer that you will deliver the book that resolves everything as well. (Otherwise nobody would have bought the books.)
I'll end this discussion from my side right here. I think that the concept of 'moral obligation' is just lost to some people or mixed up with 'legal obligation'.

(BTW, I have never heard GRRM ever say anything like what you claim, that he doesn't have a moral obligation to finish the series. All he says is that he has the right to do it at his own way, speed and time. And I fully agree with him there.)

[Mladen]

(BTW, I have never heard GRRM ever say anything like what you claim, that he doesn't have a moral obligation to finish the series. All he says is that he has the right to do it at his own way, speed and time. And I fully agree with him there.)

I have never said such thing. GRRM did, however said that "writing is not democracy" (he was referring to some questions regarding fans' opinions about certain plots)

[Rho'd Berth]

I have never said such thing. GRRM did, however said that "writing is not democracy" (he was referring to some questions regarding fans' opinions about certain plots)

Absolutely true. Both that he said it, and he's right to say so.

[Guest BigwigStandsHisGround]

People seem to think GRRM owes them something...he doesn't.

Yes, he definitely should enjoy his money, he's earned it. :)

Wait one cotton-picking minute. Where in my post did I make a demand on the author? He owes me nothing. You, by responding to my post in such a manner, appear to believe that I owe him my allegiance as a consumer. Strange.

[The Key Is Patchface]

I am not sure why people think HBO is going to catch up season 4 is barly going to get into FOC. And I think they could make two more season out of the rest of FOC and DOD. HBO most likely wont run out of material until after the 2016 season.

it seems as if most, if not all of Brienne's AFfC storyline will be completed this season, lots of Dany material from ADWD will be this season...a very liberal estimate would be that they could MAYBE get a season and a half out of the rest of the books...but that would mean a lot of time focused on Dorne and Jon Con, Aegon and Tyrion's journey...they'd have to possibly invent stuff for Victarian and Euron to fill episodes, besides Cersei's storyline and to a lesser extent Arya's not a lot goes on with the show's current main characters in the last two books...in order to get 2 more seasons out of them the show would have to drastically shift focus to an entirely new group of characters for long periods of time and I'm not sure HBO or even D and D want to do that...is the casual tv audience going to want to spend half a season with Doran Arianne and the Sand Snakes? Sure Myrcella is there but most people don't even remember her being sent to Dorne...personally I'd be cool with it because I like all the Dornish stuff but doesn't seem like something that can be done on the show

[sifth]

it seems as if most, if not all of Brienne's AFfC storyline will be completed this season, lots of Dany material from ADWD will be this season...a very liberal estimate would be that they could MAYBE get a season and a half out of the rest of the books...but that would mean a lot of time focused on Dorne and Jon Con, Aegon and Tyrion's journey...they'd have to possibly invent stuff for Victarian and Euron to fill episodes, besides Cersei's storyline and to a lesser extent Arya's not a lot goes on with the show's current main characters in the last two books...in order to get 2 more seasons out of them the show would have to drastically shift focus to an entirely new group of characters for long periods of time and I'm not sure HBO or even D and D want to do that...is the casual tv audience going to want to spend half a season with Doran Arianne and the Sand Snakes? Sure Myrcella is there but most people don't even remember her being sent to Dorne...personally I'd be cool with it because I like all the Dornish stuff but doesn't seem like something that can be done on the show

I have a feeling we'll get Dorne on the show. It seems like a pretty big arc to drop.

[HairGrowsBack]

I have a feeling we'll get Dorne on the show. It seems like a pretty big arc to drop.

Wasn't there something about Myrcella's actress being back this season ?

[The Key Is Patchface]

Werthead,

Note how Hibberd opens the quote. "Seven sounds okay to HBO, as well. Or perhaps eight." And see how Lombardo casually brings up eight: "I hate to sound greedy, but our longest shows have gone 7 or 8 seasons..."

What is he being greedy about? Well, clearly, he means -- and Hibberd took it to mean -- that in context, mentioning eight seasons is not "This is just factual information", but, "You know, this show too could go to 8... not that we're being greedy, mind you. seven sounds good too of course..."

Like I said, I think the fact that the Vanity Fair piece again starts mentioning 8 seasons makes it feel like maybe the execs at HBO, seeing the interest they're getting and revenue they're making, have told D&D that they're not utterly opposed to an eighth season and aren't closing the door on it. But I think it will all depend on contract renegotiations.

don't the number of seasons depend entirely on GRRM? He could decide to change the ending that he's told D&D, he could decide to write an 8th book...he could fill books 6 and 7 with 5 seasons worth of unskippable material...I just don't see HBO stopping GOT if it's still making them money and the author of the source material is still producing more of the story...D&D may leave after 7 seasons but that doesn't mean HBO will abandon the show

[The Key Is Patchface]

I have a feeling we'll get Dorne on the show. It seems like a pretty big arc to drop.

I hope you're right...I want ALL the characters from AFfC and ADWD to show up...I want Hotah, I want the Greyjoys, I want The Sand Snakes and Arianne and Jon Con and all them...damn it I want Penny to be on the show...but I don't know how HBO will implement them...I guess it helps that a lot of the "main" characters are going to die this season and that should make room for new characters but after this season the focus of the show is going to shift South and East

[Queen Whore]

I must be the only person in the history of the universe that enjoys spoilers. If a movie is making me nervous, I will jump on the internet to find out the ending so I don't have to be on the edge of my seat the whole time.
So what if the shows pass the books? I'm just using the shows to supplement my addiction to the books until TWoW comes out anyway.

[Tellus Explorer]

I must be the only person in the history of the universe that enjoys spoilers. If a movie is making me nervous, I will jump on the internet to find out the ending so I don't have to be on the edge of my seat the whole time.So what if the shows pass the books? I'm just using the shows to supplement my addiction to the books until TWoW comes out anyway.

No true, I'm a spoiler fan myself, but I respect others think it a sin ;)

It usually just makes me want to see/read/listen to whatever it was even more.

The show is just a visual waiting game for me, not saying I don't like it, I'm just more interested in winter to be here since I've heard it was coming for forever now. But I don't think it should be rushed, because then it will be garbage and I'll be :crying: :devil: :angry:

[Chebyshov]

I must be the only person in the history of the universe that enjoys spoilers. If a movie is making me nervous, I will jump on the internet to find out the ending so I don't have to be on the edge of my seat the whole time.

So what if the shows pass the books? I'm just using the shows to supplement my addiction to the books until TWoW comes out anyway.

You're not alone! This is why I read the books in the first place...the show was stressing me out too much. And now it's flipped for me and the show tides me (and theory-crafting in forums of course) until more book chapters are released. So, I concur.

[Roger_Snow]

I'm not going to be to bothered if the show passes the books, though I do change my mind quite a bit on this. If and when the show does catch up then I presume that GRRM will have to do the entire seasons script and write every episode as there's no reference for other people to go from, which in turn will take up even more of his time. Seeing the show and not knowing what's going to happen will be just as epic.

[sifth]

I'm not going to be to bothered if the show passes the books, though I do change my mind quite a bit on this. If and when the show does catch up then I presume that GRRM will have to do the entire seasons script and write every episode as there's no reference for other people to go from, which in turn will take up even more of his time. Seeing the show and not knowing what's going to happen will be just as epic.

That's a rather positive way to look at things. I just wonder how faithful the show will be to the future books once we reach that point.

[Cas Stark]

I must be the only person in the history of the universe that enjoys spoilers. If a movie is making me nervous, I will jump on the internet to find out the ending so I don't have to be on the edge of my seat the whole time.

So what if the shows pass the books? I'm just using the shows to supplement my addiction to the books until TWoW comes out anyway.

There are at least two of us then, but we are a tiny and persecuted minority. I do the same. I also have been known to skim the ending of a book because if my favorite character is going to die, I like to know it in advance.

[Duke O' Nooobs]

I also have been known to skim the ending of a book because if my favorite character is going to die, I like to know it in advance.

HAHAHAHA that's terrible!

[protar]

When you sell a book that ends with a cliffhanger, with the plan to write more books that resolve that cliffhanger, then you agree with your customer that you will deliver the book that resolves everything as well. (Otherwise nobody would have bought the books.)

I'll end this discussion from my side right here. I think that the concept of 'moral obligation' is just lost to some people or mixed up with 'legal obligation'.

(BTW, I have never heard GRRM ever say anything like what you claim, that he doesn't have a moral obligation to finish the series. All he says is that he has the right to do it at his own way, speed and time. And I fully agree with him there.)

I don't think you know what a moral obligation is. That would imply that if he never finishes the books he is a bad person. Which is...ridiculous. It would be pretty terrible for us fans, but the completion or lack of completion of a book series is not a matter of morals.

[Cas Stark]

I don't think you know what a moral obligation is. That would imply that if he never finishes the books he is a bad person. Which is...ridiculous. It would be pretty terrible for us fans, but the completion or lack of completion of a book series is not a matter of morals.

How about a social contract then? I kind of agree when you end a novel on a huge cliffhanger instead of resolving things organically within the plot structure....you've made an implied promise to your audience to finish the story.