Konradsmith Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I've seen a lot of disappointment and indifference about Sansa, yes, but there are also a lot of people who are only now interested in her. Did you mean more specifically about certain sectors of the Sullied community or show viewers more generally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 "It's not going over well, either". With whom? From what I've read of reviews and fan reactions, there isn't too much of a consensus over Sansa (just like in the books, mind you). There isn't a uniformly positive response to her storyline, yes, but neither is there a uniformly negative one as I think you're suggesting. BTW Paper Waver, do you think that LF's drunkenness in AFFC was a ploy of some kind? Some of the biggest online Sansa fans, like nobodysuspectsthebutterfly and a bunch of other Sansa fans on Tumblr, and Rhiannon Thomas from Feminist Fiction, have been very pleased with The Mountain and the Viper, even though both are huge book fans (I don't want to say purists) and usually big critics of the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 That's what I would've thought. There really never is consensus in this fandom. That's why the book debates are so interesting and so aggravating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I've seen a lot of disappointment and indifference about Sansa, yes, but there are also a lot of people who are only now interested in her. Did you mean more specifically about certain sectors of the Sullied community or show viewers more generally? This is just my impression, but you asked. The unsullied didn't like her much, I read things like useless, waste of space, boring, and worse. So even though they think she went to the dark side, as many put it, she's more interesting now. Evil is sexy kind of thing. The readers who are Sansa fans are not happy for the most part. At all. And they want her to have respect as a female character to have her own story told, and her own sexuality explored, on her terms, at least in parallel to this sort of thing. And this sort of thing is being disparaged as typical for the show. And I didn't mean to exclude this forum, but that's obvious, we can just read the reaction here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 As I've said before I don't understand why you read that moment as evil but I equally don't understand the Unsullied who've never liked Sansa from the get-go. Then there's plenty of Sullied who feel the same in that and I understand that you and Annara Snow both have to put up with them as a voice on forums like these, which I commend you for. As I said above, there's seldom any consensus among ASOIAF fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 And I don't understand why you keep saying I read that moment as "evil" - it's a trope. You are taking the word literally, when it's not being used that way. Also, people are laughing at it for the most part. It's seen as funny, because it's so over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 It's a pretty ambiguous moment, especially since we don't get any follow up on it until next year. I've seen a lot of positive reactions to it, and negative ones and ones of bafflement or surprise on wicnet, imdb, reddit and in actual published reviews. I've only seen it laughed at here, though maybe I'm not looking hard enough. Anyways, I look forward to seeing how they handle that moment's aftermath next year. Sophie's performance during the trial of LF sequence was awesome and I hope we get more of that-level acting from her going forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Every time someone says Darth Sansa, Maleficent, Evil Queen, etc. - take that as laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Most of the references to Maleficent I saw in professional reviews were not meant to deride the scene. That movie had just come out at around the same time 408 aired though, so they were being "topical" as well as fairly observing a similarity in costuming. Obviously "Darth Sansa" is usually accompanied by sniggering but it's been referenced quite a lot less. "Evil Queen" I've only seen coming from you, though I don't doubt others have said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 This is just my impression, but you asked. The unsullied didn't like her much, I read things like useless, waste of space, boring, and worse. So even though they think she went to the dark side, as many put it, she's more interesting now. Evil is sexy kind of thing. The readers who are Sansa fans are not happy for the most part. At all. And they want her to have respect as a female character to have her own story told, and her own sexuality explored, on her terms, at least in parallel to this sort of thing. And this sort of thing is being disparaged as typical for the show.And I didn't mean to exclude this forum, but that's obvious, we can just read the reaction here...,I can't say as I go all around to find out what many think on other sites, about Sansa or anyone else for that matter. One thing that I think is a shame is...that Sophie did beautifully with the Snow Castle scene (the little they allowed her to do, that is), and I do think.......they could try to transition her from that stand point to another in a better way than THE DRESS (which, honestly, as funny as it is, I'm not interested in debating, LOL). Probably, mostly, I can tell from following the show taglines on Twitter what some think, and I have to admit, I've never found much Sansa hate there. She gets more notice, though, when a 'shocker' happens around her, it seems to me, anyway. I have noticed on this forum that some posters seem to welcome the stepping up and out that show seems to be promising for Sansa in this regard, some, worry on it, some note how heavy handed it is, and some will always want it to be just like the books. I'm not one who needs it to be just like the books, just give me something that is at least as good, or better, than the books, and I'd be fine with it. I don't think much consideration was given by the show to make Sansa's story line fit and work this season, IMO. Hence, the quickie mess with Dontos (which Sophie did beautifully, too, by the way), instead of Sansa's continued participation in her own escape. As far as the whole Sansa and LF dynamic, I don't mind a little fastforwarding of the story. While I don't want Sansa to need to be rescued, I also, fer crap's sake, don't want her to be Littlefinger the Second. I want her to remain the good person she is inside, I want her to, yes, learn how to manuever both LF and in LF's type of world, but I want her to find a way to do it without losing her innate goodness and kindness. I do worry what that horrid dress means (from D&Ds standpoint), I think that is what some of the concerns are about, coupled with the comments coming to us from actors, etc. I don't want, show or book, Sansa to be LF the second, I want her to remain herself and use what she learns from LF to beat him at his game. IF the show gives me that, and stops using her as a prop for many instead of finally finding the character itself, I'd be happy. I think Sophie can do beautifully with whatever the show gives her, she really does have the Sansa 'vibe.' Then again, the show itself is awful on followup to it's own story lines, we may never see that dress (or the supposed attitude that may go with it) ever again, LOL Just like the show once introed Jojen to have much information about Ned, Howland, and the Rebellion for Bran and for us.........and then, blew him up with fireballs instead of really allowing Jojen to share much information, they may do the same with Sansa and THE dress. Hell, THE Dress, THE brothel, they really are almost characters' all their own. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 You seem to be the only person in the world to think that. I clarified the Loras comment with parentheses, you misunderstood. I don't like this style of debate, so I'm not going to address the rest. But even if I was the only person to think Sansa is being used as a prop on the show (I'm not), so what? This is my opionion, that's what we're here for, to share our opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I clarified the Loras comment with parentheses, you misunderstood. I don't like this style of debate, so I'm not going to address the rest. But even if I was the only person to think Sansa is being used as a prop on the show (I'm not), so what? This is my opionion, that's what we're here for, to share our opinions. I never said there was anything wrong with that, but you seemed to be claiming that the majority of people feel the way you described in your reply to Konradsmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 While I don't want Sansa to need to be rescued, I also, fer crap's sake, don't want her to be Littlefinger the Second. I want her to remain the good person she is inside, I want her to, yes, learn how to manuever both LF and in LF's type of world, but I want her to find a way to do it without losing her innate goodness and kindness. I do worry what that horrid dress means (from D&Ds standpoint), I think that is what some of the concerns are about, coupled with the comments coming to us from actors, etc. I don't want, show or book, Sansa to be LF the second, I want her to remain herself and use what she learns from LF to beat him at his game. IF the show gives me that, and stops using her as a prop for many instead of finally finding the character itself, I'd be happy. That's what I see the most, what you are saying above. That's my concern, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 That's what I see the most, what you are saying above. That's my concern, too. That's the issue for me, in regards to the direction that the show will go with Sansa's character and story. Does THE dress really mean something, or....like Arya and The Hound at the Gate to The Vale......will it all be forgotten and never mentioned again? The not knowing may be the most irritating thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 That's the issue for me, in regards to the direction that the show will go with Sansa's character and story. Does THE dress really mean something, or....like Arya and The Hound at the Gate to The Vale......will it all be forgotten and never mentioned again? The not knowing may be the most irritating thing. THE dress. :lol: Although there will be more than THE brothel in season 5. Porne! Perhaps there will be more than one THE dress. I'd like to see Jaime wear a sexy outfit to visually represent his storyline, since we must have visual representation (otherwise how would we know?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 ^If it helps at all there are set photos of Jaime wearing black leather with man-cleavage for s5. On the subject of set photos and the earlier Sansa discussion, there was one glimpse of her riding at the head of some Knights of the Vale a week or two ago. She was still wearing black/very dark blue-purple but I believe it was a different dress, more geared towards staying warm in the out-of-doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 ^If it helps at all there are set photos of Jaime wearing black leather with man-cleavage for s5. On the subject of set photos and the earlier Sansa discussion, there was one glimpse of her riding at the head of some Knights of the Vale a week or two ago. She was still wearing black but I believe it was a different dress, more geared towards staying warm in the out-of-doors. Of course he is, the better for the Sand Snakes to see it, my darling! Red Riding Hood Reference, I suppose it could fit lions and snakes as well as wolves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Oh, by the way, I don't really give three shits about the cleavage on said dress, my main issue with it is that it just looked sooooooooooooo ridiculously out of place, just by the standards and norms of the entire costuming on the show the past four years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 What did we tell you, Porne. Vive le cleavage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 What did we tell you, Porne. Vive le cleavage. LOL And, I thought I was bad. :P Interesting lack of notice on my comment that I'm fine with changes as long as they are at least equal in quality to the books. I guess we aren't the only ones still obsessed with the dress. ETA; I mean THE Dress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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