[Book spoilers] Thenn Cannibalism

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

The fact is, they've done a pretty poor job at really getting the TV audience to understand how serious the Wildling threat is. The Thenns being so clearly brutal was a perfect way to set the tone for the stakes. I didn't mind the change, and it made for a pretty foreboding scene.

This.

One of my biggest issues of S3 was that they completely dropped the ball with Jon's story and the nature of the Wildlings. Yes, there are elements of Mance's Army that are 'Free Folk' and viewers would identify with their cause. But that alignment means people won't invest with the NW in the coming encounters - and won't invest with Stannis when he arrives. They need to establish there are in fact brutal Wildlings about to fall on the Wall. They have to show that we are supposed to be rooting for the vastly outnumbered NW. If they can't pull that off, then Stannis's actions lose their meaning, and Jon's diplomacy also loses its meaning.

I am happy to sacrifice the marriage of a very inconsequential third tier character in favour of the actual important characters.

They can make as many of the Wildlings as brutal, immoral, barbaric and rapacious as they want, in fact, they must do this.

[Chebyshov]

This.

One of my biggest issues of S3 was that they completely dropped the ball with Jon's story and the nature of the Wildlings. Yes, there are elements of Mance's Army that are 'Free Folk' and viewers would identify with their cause. But that alignment means people won't invest with the NW in the coming encounters - and won't invest with Stannis when he arrives. They need to establish there are in fact brutal Wildlings about to fall on the Wall. They have to show that we are supposed to be rooting for the vastly outnumbered NW. If they can't pull that off, then Stannis's actions lose their meaning, and Jon's diplomacy also loses its meaning.

I am happy to sacrifice the marriage of a very inconsequential third tier character in favour of the actual important characters.

They can make as many of the Wildlings as brutal, immoral, barbaric and rapacious as they want, in fact, they must do this.

Here here! The majority of the people who are upset by this change were probably fans of Alys. I like her myself, but I'll happily sacrifice it for good storytelling. Especially because, as you said, Jon's diplomacy wouldn't have had its meaning.

[Koi No Yokan]

I think the striking appearances work. As you say, it hammers home the diversity of all these Wildling cultures.

Just because some Thenns are cannibals, doesn't mean they all are.

[Onna Lewyys]

Yes, let's not forget that in the book Jon wants to give amnesty even to the Weeper, who, granted, isn't a cannibal but he is a notoriously barbaric wildling who gouges his victims' eyes out.

[Laniki]

The Southrons have their Cleganes and Boltons, the Wildlings have the Thenns. That's diversity, and not a bad thing at all. Not every wildling has to be a nice, hearthy Tormund methinks. I think it was time they reminded the audience that there are bad people everywhere.

Tormunds reaction to seeing the Thenns is also telling. "I $^@&ing hate the Thenns"

[GallowsKnight]

Tormunds reaction to seeing the Thenns is also telling. "I $^@&ing hate the Thenns"

I loved that line. Tormund has been all over the shop the last season but that rang true

[Sullen]

I don't mind that they added cannibalism to their culture, but the way it was introduced was about the least subtle way you could have introduced it.

[DominusNovus]

Adding cannibal wildlings to the mix makes me hope for a conversation between Ygritte and Jon before she dies...

"Oh, by the way, you asked why we're fighting you? The Thenns eat people, thats a good enough reason for me."

[Van beyond The Wall]

Yeah, not much of a fan of this version of the Thenns. Crazy is already more than abundant north of The Wall. The Thenns of the books represent a proud and established society of laws and with a semblance of industry . Its a bummer to see that missing. Fanatical is one thing, bat shit insane another...

[SkiThe603]

Yeah, not much of a fan of this version of the Thenns. Crazy is already more than abundant north of The Wall. The Thenns of the books represent a proud and established society of laws and with a semblance of industry . Its a bummer to see that missing. Fanatical is one thing, bat shit insane another...

This.

No bronze armor and no Magnar. You see brutality in Giants and Knights, Crazy in Joffrey. They could have gotten this one little thing correct. Show that the Wildlings are smarter than Ser Allistor and Slynt.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

. Show that the Wildlings are smarter than Ser Allistor and Slynt.

But then the audience would be barracking for the Wildlings instead of the Night's Watch and that removes the effect of Stannis coming to their rescue. The Wildlings need to be painted as the bad guys in the coming battle to justify the redemption of Stannis. That is far more important than rosey-eyed vision of an unimportant culture from beyond the wall.

[Cold Crashing Waves]

Thorne isn't stupid, he's just an asshole. He has his doubts but he's still fully aware of the threat a wildling army can pose. Notice he didn't balk at the mention of giants.

[protar]

But the Thenns are supposed to become Jon's allies. The point of Jon's arch in ADWD is learning to treat the wildlings as real humans, and that will be difficult to swallow with cruel canibals.

And while as you say variety is good, depicting everything in extremes is not. You can have the Thenns being a little bad, or quite bad, or even very bad, without the need to having them be outright monsters.

Jon accepts cannibals at the Wall in the books as well - the Ice River Clans. It's just rather glossed over.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I don't mind that they added cannibalism to their culture, but the way it was introduced was about the least subtle way you could have introduced it.

when they showed the bag of stuff onthe ground i was like"that's gonna be full of heads or something"

[Cold Crashing Waves]

Who cares if it was subtle or not? It was a cool scene. The Thenns made a huge impression and they'll be remembered by the viewers. Mission accomplished.

[Hippocras]

I agree with a lot so posts here. It was a very large deviation from the books, but it served an important purpose:

1. It introduced cannibalism, which is relevant in the books because of Skagos but Skagos will be cut from the TV show so they needed another way.

2. It helped barbarian-ize the wildlings in the build-up to the war at the Wall.

3. It is not groundless.

I am pretty sure it was the Thenns at Mole Town who were giving Jon the most trouble after they came South of the Wall. It was also them who went around carving new terrible faces in trees around the Gift, in spite of their supposed conversion to R'hllor. The are several book hints of some vicious Old Gods practices, via that terrible Weirwood at Whitetree Village where they found the bones of a human child in the mouth. Craster's mother was from Whitetree village also. So we already know that the Old Gods are as grey as anything else in theses books and have an evil side. That needed to be clarified and the Thenns were a way to do that.

[Theda Baratheon]

I don't mind that they added cannibalism to their culture, but the way it was introduced was about the least subtle way you could have introduced it.

yeah, i didn't think it was cool just a bit naff, but like i said i did like the show introducing some other wildlings who weren't as likable as ygritte or tormund

[jet199]

I think the Thenn/Karstark marriage could still go ahead. I think it is easy to assume that Alys has been saved by the marriage but that is not certain. The Thenns being so weird will emphasise how "out of the box" Jon's idea was and what a revolutionary thinker he is in ADWD. However it will also make it more understandable if Alys does get rejected and/or killed by her fellow northerners.

[HannibalStark]

So were introduced to the Thenn wildling clan this episode, and their cannibals. They are the exact opposite of this in the book, being the most civilized of all the wildlings with laws and metalworking and what not. Did this bother anyone else a ton? Also won't this have pretty big ramifications for the story's related to the Thenn later on?

of all the changes this is one that I think bothers me the most...The Thenns are the closest thing to "Lords" (Magnars) the Free People know or have...my guess it seems to have only been done to make them "scarier" rather than actually introduce more actual distinct clans....

The Thenns above the others are more important I think to the story (at least in the books so far) but I think its BECAUSE they hold themselves apart from the others as being the closet remaining survivors to what the First Men left behind...they are important because they are civilized and I think the whole reason Jon is able to reasonably marry the living Magnar to the heir of Karstark...who in their right mind would marry "kin" to known cannibals? ...and give them Karhold as a result?

[The Fourth Head]

My first impression was that it was unnecessary- Styr's gait was too "Uruk-Hai" for my liking, and it seemed over the top- like the character assassination of a whole group of people.

However, in one fell swoop, it humanised Tormund brilliantly- and Tormund is more important as a character than Styr. I felt a ambivalent towards Tormund in season 3 because he spent as much time threatening Jon as he did playing with him. Now Tormund is wholly sympathetic.

But I don't think the benefits end there. After all, we are the readers of Summer, and Winter has come. I don't think Canniballism does equal savagery. We have been given a very unpleasant introduction to Cannibals by Styr- but at this stage, south of the wall, cannibalism seems unnecessary, and he will soon die. We were given a very unpleasant introduction to Jamie Lannister too if I recall, but he is fast becoming a hero, despite throwing children out of windows. GRRM loves his grey.

Blatantly, there is a growing trend towards Canniballism in ASOIAF- hell- who didn't cheer Frey Pie! Even southron fools and lords, who who aren't being portrayed as "evil", but as normal, desperate men are partaking in eating the dead. I suspect Bran has, unknowingly, done the same- and it's the reason he's still alive. If conducted in an organised manner, with rules, it could make the difference between the survival or death of a society- where a leader's morals could doom his whole people and risk him being killed and eaten himself- which could result in anarchy. In fact, I like the challenging concept that a cannibalistic society can also be a disciplined one. Furthermore, we have yet to meet Styr's son- he may come across as slightly more "palatable" if you get my drift. You have to be tough to survive in winter. I think GRRM will genuinely force us to consider cannibalism as a valid survival option without having to hate those who take part.

This fits in perfectly with the changing attitude, with time, towards the Thenns. Jon Snow will need men on the walls. He will need to appease Styr's son, as rations fall slim, Jon will be forced to either kill them all, or risk them eating all the locals. It cranks up the pressure on Jon in ADWD. What better way to appease this group of well behaved, cowed, but dangerous prisoners, than gifting them Karstark lands, and all the non-human food to be found there? I doubt very much the Magnar would tolerate his wife being eaten. That doesn't make any sense at all, and as we start to see how the Wall can cooperate with cannibals who come across as fairly civilised after-all, despite first impressions, the insidious path towards embracing cannibalism will continue.