Indian Politics (Number ? Has there been a thread on this topic before?)

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

I've only heard of Narendra Modi about a month ago, so my opinions on him aren't very well formed. I've heard some good and some bad things about him. The Economist gave him an anti-endorsement based on some anti-Muslim and Hindu Nationalist dogwhistles, which apparently caused some controversy in India. Others cite his economic record as governor of Gujarat, which was pretty good, but not transcendent. An Indian friends of mine, who I respect greatly, said that he supports Modi, despite the other issues, because it's better than allowing the Ghandi-Nehru dynasty to keep it's monopoly on power.

So what do the more informed board members think about this upcoming election?

[IheartIheartTesla]

Vote for the incompetent dynastic heir, its important.

[Galactus]

Yeah, honestly. Modi is a good old-fashioned fascist.

[Sci-2]

Modi seems terrible.

Might have to fly to Gujarat and throw my NRI hat in the ring.

eta: Gujarat's my home state, so I figure it would make a good HQ. Plus a Guju should win, just not Modi.

[Mazigh]

Yeah, honestly. Modi is a good old-fashioned fascist.

Is this why you say that? I have heard that his state was the best in India and that he was the most popular

[Horza]

I guess it's not a big leap from holocaust denial to Modi apologism.

[Galactus]

Is this why you say that? I have heard that his state was the best in India and that he was the most popular

Not really, more his general politics (there's always been shades of that in hindutva movements, but y'know, the entire anti-muslim pogrom thing kind of puts him a bit beyond that)

[Mazigh]

Not really, more his general politics (there's always been shades of that in hindutva movements, but y'know, the entire anti-muslim pogrom thing kind of puts him a bit beyond that)

Are you Muslim? I didn't know there was any Muslim pogroms in India or is that what he is planning to do?

I guess it's not a big leap from holocaust denial to Modi apologism.

I guess not? I haven't heard much about this man but that is what I hear the Indian people say

[The Marquis de Leech]

Gwynne Dyer's write-up last month:

http://www.straight.com/news/602651/gwynne-dyer-indias-election-may-mean-hard-swing-right

Here's hoping the religious extremism does get toned down via coalition negotiations.

[Prosesskrift]

I found the comment section of the Economist article linked above to be quite illuminating as to the state of Indian politics.

It's a tough choice though, and I do not envy the Indian's their dilema. Support a clearly inefficient and corrupt regime or vote for a person who is not corrupt and has a seemingly strong economic record, but whom might be a half a stumble away from facism.

[Galactus]

Are you Muslim? I didn't know there was any Muslim pogroms in India or is that what he is planning to do?

There has been plenty, ever since Partition, the one I'm talking about is the 2002 Gujarati pogrom

This kind of communal violence isn't that unusual in India, but that's not really a reason to support a guy who is involved in it.

[Mazigh]

There has been plenty, ever since Partition, the one I'm talking about is the 2002 Gujarati pogrom

This kind of communal violence isn't that unusual in India, but that's not really a reason to support a guy who is involved in it.

It seems that the Indians support him though What would you do? Go and invade them so you can install some pro Sunni regime?

[The Marquis de Leech]

It seems that the Indians support him though What would you do? Go and invade them so you can install some pro Sunni regime?

Hooray for straw men. No-one's suggesting an invasion: if India wants to elect a quasi-fascist, that's their business. Doesn't stop everyone else hoping that they elect someone else.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I'm reading Robert Kaplan's book Monsoon about the Indian Ocean and the nations that border it. I've just gotten to the chapter on Gujarat and read about the Pogrom:

What human rights groups label the "pogrom" had its origin in the incineration of 58 Hindu train passanfers on Feb. 27, 2002, in Godhra, a town with a large Muslim population...

The Muslims who started the fire were apparently the victims of taunts by other Hindus from Gujarat, who had previously passed through the station, en route to Adyodhya in Utar Pradesh, to demonstrate for a Himdu temple to be built on the site of a demolished Mighal-era mosque. It was at this juncture that the recentlu installed chief minister of Gujarat, the Hindu naionalist Narendra Modi immediately decreed February 28 a day of mourning, so that the funerals ofthe passengers could be held in the streets of Ahmedabad Gujarat's larges city. "It was a clear invitaion to violence," writes the Financial Times correspondent in India, Edward Luce, in his book, In Spite of the Gods: The Strange Rise of Modern India. "The Muslim quarters of Ahmedabad and other cities in Gujarat sunsequently turned into death traps as thousands of Hindu militants converged on them." In the midst of the riots, Chief Minister Modi quoted Newton's third law: "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction." The statement removed all restraint from the killers. Mobs coalesced and raped Muslim women, before pourig kerosene down their throats and the throats of their children, who were then set on fire...

Some reports claim that as many as 400 women were raped, 2000 Muslims murdered, and 200,000 more made homeless throughout the State...

Luce, the influential writer Pankaj Mishr, and many others have observed that the high degree of planning and efficiency to the murders indicated official culpability. "Surveys were done some weeks before indicating where Muslims lived," said Prasad Chacko, who runs a human rights NGO, in Ahmedabad. "The police were complicit. There was an attitude of waiting for a pretext to let people vent their feelings. The quality of the killings, if not the numbers, indicate a state-sponsored genocide."

As of 2010 when this book was published Modi was still the chief of Gujarat and never so much as apologized for the deaths and displacement he oversaw.

How is this possible?

[Mazigh]

Anything from a Hindu/Modi supporter point of view? These are the same people that brought us Srebrenica and the Kosovo Genocide so I am a little skeptical of their spin on things

[Fragile Bird]

Perhaps, Ser Scot, because India doesn't register high in the news scale in the USA? Or perhaps because the USA was more focused on Middle East terrorism? We saw quite a bit of coverage in Canada when it happened, likely because first, India is a fellow member of the Commonwealth, and secondly, we have large Indian populations in major Canadian cities. Indian terrorism has always caught our eye ever since it was thrown in our face with the Air India bombing back in 1985, when 268 Canadians out of 329 passengers and crew died on route from Montreal to London to Delhi.

It's was also back in our major newspapers and broadcasters because of elections.

“Gujarat” – as the attacks are known in political and human-rights circles here, the state's name inextricably tied to the bloodbath – was a seminal moment in the modern history of India. It was the worst such conflict since partition in 1947, and reignited fears the country would always be plagued by sectarian violence.

There has been nothing like it since – but as the country marks the 10th anniversary of the riots this month, the anguish of victims brought into stark relief how little real progress has been made. The religious lines drawn by the violence have not been bridged. The victims have not been compensated. Few cases have gone to court. And Narendra Modi, the long-serving chief minister of Gujarat who stands accused of sanctioning and overseeing the attacks, has emerged as a leading candidate to become India's next prime minister.

“Strong evidence,” says Human Rights Watch, ties the carnage to the Modi government which, having come to power five months before it began, has been “subverting justice, protecting perpetrators and intimidating those promoting accountability” ever since the killing ended.

The international watchdog group has found that not only did rioters have detailed lists of Muslim residents and businesses, they were incited by phone calls and door-to-door campaigns conducted by officials of Mr. Modi's Hindu-nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and right-wing organizations affiliated with it.

“The state had evidence, it had machinery. It had the strength to control it if they wanted to. This is irrefutable,” says Harsh Mander, who had a senior post in the central government and was in Gujarat when the killing began. He resigned over what he calls the complicity of his colleagues, and has spent the past decade supporting victim efforts to end the impunity seemingly enjoyed by officials – and their leader.

From the Globe & Mail, last year. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/ten-years-after-gujarat-the-man-accused-of-sanctioning-it-is-poised-to-become-indias-pm/article534808/

[sologdin]

lucky for them that the SICC entered into force only in july 2002, and that india, like all the other scum of the earth states, is not a state party, because these are violations of art. 6 or art. 7.

[IheartIheartTesla]

You'll (hopefully) hear more about it now that Modi is almost a shoo-in to become the next Prime Minister of India.

[cdawnb]

I remember this clearly and I live in the US. It sticks in my mind because it was one of the most horrific things I had ever heard.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

The Supreme Court gave him a clean chit. He is clean as far as the judicial system of India is concerned.