SeanF Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Dany was not an innocent victim here. She had urged the invasion of Westeros on Drogo. He was doing what he needed to do to raise funds for the invasion. Dany was clearly ignorant about what warfare was about. But, that's no reason for MMD to give her a pass. So, while we can give credit for Dany for ending MMD's rape, and the rape of other women, MMD was entitled to take revenge on both her and Drogo for the horrors that had been inflicted on her people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 She claimed after the fact that she intended to kill the child. She initially said to keep everyone out of the tent. One of those is a lie. Which one do we believe? Neither. Because she was motivated to hurt Dany and we can understand she's lying there. We can pretty safely assume she was just using what happened to hurt Dany because the opportunity presented itself.The baby died when Miri started chanting, BEFORE Dany was brought into the tent. So the two things are unrelated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Dany was not an innocent victim here. She had urged the invasion of Westeros on Drogo. He was doing what he needed to do to raise funds for the invasion. Dany was clearly ignorant about what warfare was about. But, that's no reason for MMD to give her a pass. So, while we can give credit for Dany for ending MMD's rape, and the rape of other women, MMD was entitled to take revenge on both her and Drogo for the horrors that had been inflicted on her people. Yes exactly. Again, it wasn't like Dany thought Drogo was going to finance the invasion by issuing bonds and ordering the Dothraki central bank to hit a higher inflation target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 MMD was just gloating to Dany after her victory. She did not do what she did to hurt Dany specifically. Her purpose was to kill Drogo and after him, no one would follow Dany. Rhaego was already going to be killed by this khal or that khal as Jorah said because MMD knew the Dothraki way better than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Nope, I am pretty sure it was only the rapes that bothered her. She well knew what was going to happen to the men and women in that village, besides the rape, and rationalized it (this is the price of war). And remember that Lharazereen boy? I don't recall her being outraged by that. I mean are you telling me that Dany was unaware that the Lhazareen wouldn't be slaughtered and sold into slavery? ETA: Dany knew full well that Drogo needed money. How did Dany think Drogo was going to bet the funds? What by issuing Dothraki government bonds? She knew the price, yes. But she couldn't stomach the price in the end Dany pitied them; she remembered what terror felt like. I am the blood of the dragon, Daenerys Targaryen reminded herself as she turned her face away. She pressed her lips together and hardened her heart and rode on toward the gate Slaves, Dany thought. Khal Drogo would drive them downriver to one of the towns on Slaver’s Bay. She wanted to cry, but she told herself that she must be strong. This is war, this is what it looks like, this is the price of the Iron Throne Behind them, the girl being raped made a heartrending sound, a long sobbing wail that went on and on and on. Dany’s hand clenched hard around the reins, and she turned the silver’s head. “Make them stop,” she commanded Ser Jorah. One of them, a thick-bodied, flat-nosed woman of forty years, blessed Dany haltingly in the Common Tongue And here is Mirri. Doesn't seem so bitter about being saved here ETA: Paper Weaver: MMD was just gloating to Dany after her victory. She did not do what she did to hurt Dany specifically. Her purpose was to kill Drogo and after him, no one would follow Dany. Rhaego was already going to be killed by this khal or that khal as Jorah said because MMD knew the Dothraki way better than we do. So if she didn't mean to hurt Dany, she was just gloating for the shits and giggles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 She knew the price, yes. But she couldn't stomach the price in the end And here is Mirri. Doesn't seem so bitter about being saved here ETA: Paper Weaver: So if she didn't mean to hurt Dany, she was just gloating for the shits and giggles? I have read that chapter several times. So, you don't really need to give me quotes. Dany may not like what happened in that village, but she was willing to live with it (besides the rapes). You know, "This is the price of the Iron Throne". Dany had to know the general nature of what Drogo intended. Otherwise, you're saying Dany is a complete idiot. And even if Dany didn't truly understand what Drogo intended, it would be just one more example of Dany doing something and then being completely clueless about its consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 And even if Dany didn't truly understand what Drogo intended, it would be just one more example of Dany doing something and then being completely clueless about its consequences.Which is in fact the truth of it, not because she is an idiot, but because she was, at that point, very young, and her only education came from her ignorant and abusive fool of a brother.So where and when, with what life experience or education, was she supposed to have gained insight into the consequences? This was the first and ONLY Dothraki attack on any town she had experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bog Devil of Greywater Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The baby died when Miri started chanting, BEFORE Dany was brought into the tent. So the two things are unrelated. I don't see how anyone can reach that conclusion, but ok. Mirri was chanting, the Dothraki were going to stop her, Dany orders Jorah to kill them, the fight ensues, Jorah kills one, and is not doing well against the second before Rhaego kicks. Then the Dothraki started pelting her with stones and she thinks the price is too high. Then a Dothraki grabs her by the hair, and puts a knife to her throat. She's had the hell beaten out of her, was damn near murdered and under terrible duress, but there's not much reason to believe she thought the baby was dead. She's screaming inside her head for Jorah not to take her into the tent. She clearly thinks the baby is alive to that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 She felt the baby stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Which is in fact the truth of it, not because she is an idiot, but because she was, at that point, very young, and her only education came from her ignorant and abusive fool of a brother.So where and when, with what life experience or education, was she supposed to have gained insight into the consequences? This was the first and ONLY Dothraki attack on any town she had experienced.Which kind of seems to be general theme with Dany doesn't it? Her not understanding what she is doing always seems to lead some kind of brutal blood bath. I don't buy necessarily that she had no idea what was going to happen in that Lhazareen village. But, even if she truly did not know, I am not giving her a pass on it. There are certain things people ought to know before they take particular actions. Her ignorance of the matter is not an excuse. If she had any questions, she could have asked Jorah or Drogo about it. Being ignorant of the probable consequences of an action is not always an excuse. I am not sure why so many people have to die, so Dany can learn the hard lessons of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bog Devil of Greywater Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 She felt the baby stop. The baby was kicking wildly. Feeling the baby stop kicking isn't conclusive that the baby was dead. She clearly believes otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 And let's not over do Dany's compassion in that village. The only thing that seemed to bother her was the rapes. Everything else not so much.Not true. She was very upset by the Dothraki toying with the one boy before they killed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 And even if Dany didn't truly understand what Drogo intended, it would be just one more example of Dany doing something and then being completely clueless about its consequences. In this world, almost every 14 year old girl is going to be clueless about war, and completely horrified the first time she experiences it first hand. Dany's horror at what she was witnessing was genuine, and she did her best to prevent atrocities. But, Annara Snow has put it best. "She did her best, and her best wasn't good enough." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 ETA: Paper Weaver: So if she didn't mean to hurt Dany, she was just gloating for the shits and giggles? Yes. That was a happy moment for her and Dany talked like she deserved a good hard slapping for her ignorance. She couldnot resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Not true. She was very upset by the Dothraki toying with the one boy before they killed him. Really, I don't really recall that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 In this world, almost every 14 year old girl is going to be clueless about war, and completely horrified the first time she experiences it first hand. Dany's horror at what she was witnessing was genuine, and she did her best to prevent atrocities. But, Annara Snow has put it best. "She did her best, and her best wasn't good enough." And most 14 year old girls don't go around conspiring to commit aggressive acts of war. But if they do, then I think they ought to be expected to know about it. To believe that Dany was utterly clueless about what was going to happen you would have to believe: 1. Dany had no idea that Drogo was going to take slaves. 2. Dany had no idea that the Lhazareen were not warrior people and were not the aggressors. 3. Dany had no idea about the Dothraki way of war. 4. Dany had no idea that war involves killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The simple truth is that Dany wanted to go to Westeros and she knew what was going to happen and she didn't cared. But when she saw it she didn't liked it much, but she didn't disliked it enough to stop what she was doing either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Really, I don't really recall that at all.You're right. I looked it up, I thought she commented to Jorah about the boy, she didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 MMD is a hero and was clearly looking at the bigger picture in that she wanted to save as many lives as she can by taking out Drogo and Rheago. It does seem though that Rheago's death was part on Dany as she entered the tent when she was told not to. Understand, Dany is very popular for two reasons with the "social justic" crowd/mentality. 1- Ending slavery - noble and agreeable but when you stop an entire economic/social system ovrnight without a new one to implement, it causes problems as people always struggle to one degree or another in starting a new way of life. 2- They are proud of her sexual freedom and her getting tapped by Daario makes her seem "empowered" and admirable for some reason. I must tell you though, some of Dany's fans get really personal in attacking other posters if they express "any" views that are negative towards her and no doubt will go after me for saying this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Newcastle Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 These anti Dany threads are so tedious and stupid IMO. MMD is not a hero. Something horrific happened to her and she responded in kind. That's not heroic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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