Mirri Maz Duur is more of a hero than Dany will ever be

[Lord Damian]

What is it? is it Dany is infalable? Are the Dothraki admired that much? Really, that is what we are talking about. Dany needs to be removed from the argument for a moment. We are talking about the Dothraki and Rheago if he lived. Rheago would be the great "mounter" (rapist) of the world. Prophesies were believed by these people so the threat was as a matter of fact. IF you had the chance to stop something evil in the bud, if you believe it, really believe it without a doubt, would you not do it (IF you live in the World of Ice and Fire). I am not talking modern peple with "voices" in their head etc.. I am speaking from the viewpoint of MMD. No brainer here. It was a selfless act she did, not a selfish one. MMD helped children in her village, had nothing against children at all, Rheago though was to be something else and they all believed that had he lived, would have been something any of us find to be terrible. Dany's own vision of her son, he was standing in front of a burning city, smiling at her. Really? a city that no doubt was full of men, yes but women and children. How many were raped? How many babies killed? The kicker of it, Dany was enjoying the vision, maybe it was the sight of what her son would be but how can she even not see the destruction behind him. How many innocents? Damn people !?

[The King in Black]

I agree with this point, TSTMTP would have been no mother Teresa, but more like attila the hun. This is the dothraki people, their choosen one will be a monster.

[Ghosts Lunch]

So lately I've been reflecting on the fact that Daenerys Targaryen, especially since her recent portrayal on the show, has become ASOIAFs avatar character for rich, WASPy, college aged white girls who write social justice blogs on Tumblr. However, notice that you never see any of these people singing praises for Mirri Maz Duur. She's usually written off as that "fat ugly bitch" who killed Khal Drogo, the horselord rapist who all the aforementioned Dany fans swoon over, and died screaming when Dany became the mother of dragons or some bullshit like that.

What I honestly don't get is why the whole social justice crowd, and the ASOIAF fandom in general for that matter, views Mirri as the bad guy in this situation. Even before Dany "saved" her, Mirri had been raped by Dothraki numerous times, her people enslaved...and whats more, Dany was a carrying a child who according to prophecy was going to be "The Stallion Who Mounts The World", which literally translated to "The Guy Who's Going To Fuck The World In The Ass", and would have only raped and enslaved all of Essos and presumably Westeros as well if Dany got her way. If there is any weight to prophecies, by disposing of Rhaego as well as Drogo, Mirri pretty much saved all of Planetos.

And this character is still reviled or ignored by the majority of the fandom? Fuck that shit. Mirri Maz Duur was a hero, perhaps the single most unsung in hero in all of ASOIAF. Its only a shame that "only death can pay for life", and that by being burned alive she basically made Dany temporarily fireproof and inspired one of the most persistently annoying myths in the entire fandom...but hey no ones perfect.

Yeah it is worth remembering that the reason Drogo's wounds festered was because he removed the Poultice, so she did seem to be legitimately healing him

And she did say don't go into the Tent when she started singing and Jorah Mormont did that anyway

Obviously the show just had her come out straight deceitful

I am curious to know what part of the ritual resulted in what effect, eg what made Khal Drogo an empty living shell instead of lucid etc, eg it may not have been her intent when cleaning his wound but she decided to take the opportunity to nullify the perceived future threat Drogo and Rhaego posed

I even recall seeing during Dornish Masterplan videos I think it was a suggestion that it was Mirri Maz Duur and not Dany he caused the Dragon Eggs to open as the crack was heard before Dany entered or something. Am not sure that's quite the case (I have to re-read the section) but it does bear thinking about

We may hear more perhaps when it comes to Marwyn in a future book?...

O am curious about Dany's haemorrhaging, we may not have heard the last of what exactly happened here

[Mithras]

What is it? is it Dany is infalable? Are the Dothraki admired that much? Really, that is what we are talking about. Dany needs to be removed from the argument for a moment. We are talking about the Dothraki and Rheago if he lived. Rheago would be the great "mounter" (rapist) of the world. Prophesies were believed by these people so the threat was as a matter of fact. IF you had the chance to stop something evil in the bud, if you believe it, really believe it without a doubt, would you not do it (IF you live in the World of Ice and Fire). I am not talking modern peple with "voices" in their head etc.. I am speaking from the viewpoint of MMD. No brainer here. It was a selfless act she did, not a selfish one. MMD helped children in her village, had nothing against children at all, Rheago though was to be something else and they all believed that had he lived, would have been something any of us find to be terrible. Dany's own vision of her son, he was standing in front of a burning city, smiling at her. Really? a city that no doubt was full of men, yes but women and children. How many were raped? How many babies killed? The kicker of it, Dany was enjoying the vision, maybe it was the sight of what her son would be but how can she even not see the destruction behind him. How many innocents? Damn people !?

A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.

[Marcus Agrippa]

What is it? is it Dany is infalable? Are the Dothraki admired that much? Really, that is what we are talking about. Dany needs to be removed from the argument for a moment. We are talking about the Dothraki and Rheago if he lived. Rheago would be the great "mounter" (rapist) of the world. Prophesies were believed by these people so the threat was as a matter of fact. IF you had the chance to stop something evil in the bud, if you believe it, really believe it without a doubt, would you not do it (IF you live in the World of Ice and Fire). I am not talking modern peple with "voices" in their head etc.. I am speaking from the viewpoint of MMD. No brainer here. It was a selfless act she did, not a selfish one. MMD helped children in her village, had nothing against children at all, Rheago though was to be something else and they all believed that had he lived, would have been something any of us find to be terrible. Dany's own vision of her son, he was standing in front of a burning city, smiling at her. Really? a city that no doubt was full of men, yes but women and children. How many were raped? How many babies killed? The kicker of it, Dany was enjoying the vision, maybe it was the sight of what her son would be but how can she even not see the destruction behind him. How many innocents? Damn people !?

She did the right thing. No matter how you see it Rhaego was a threat and so are the dothraki. They are a very hunnic force and are incredibly dangerous. All they do is destroy. People really don't understand daenerys arc. She is a force of change. The change is going to be bad in the beginning and I doubt we will see the long term effects. We still see the effects of the Roman Republic's/ Empire's failure to defeat the Iranians which would eventually lead to the rise of Islam. ( Read the sassanid/ roman wars) they bankrupted each other and allowed for their armies to get exhausted and the arabs used this to their advantage. Honestly, thats what I see what daenerys being in a long term. A religion for the under privileged and the down trodden even if she becomes a villain in the eyes of the reader.

[Hodor's Dragon]

That is slightly offensive, but not even going to bother arguing.

I get MMD suffered a lot, and in fact I felt sorry for her and understood her actions. However, and I might be wrong, I don't think she killed the unborn child trying to make the world a better place. She did it for vegeance as well.

But what I don't understand is why do you need do depreciate Dany's actions in order to compliment MMD?

This could have easily been a simple MMD aprecciation thread...

I get the impression the OP is more interested in saying something about the rich WASPy college girls who write social justice blogs than in either Dany or MMD.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I get the impression the OP is more interested in saying something about the rich WASPy college girls who write social justice blogs than in either Dany or MMD.

hahaha good one! This thread is terrible, the negativity on it could congeal and form a large brain tumor.

There is no way to compliment MMD without turning Dany into the antagonist of the situation.

And I love how people 'know' what a new born baby would turn out like. Ummmm pretty sure it would just be a baby, by the time it grew up (14 years later) the books would be over and we wouldn't have to worry about him. DUH

But once again, anything to make Dany look bad right??

[JonSnow4President]

hahaha good one! This thread is terrible, the negativity on it could congeal and form a large brain tumor.

There is no way to compliment MMD without turning Dany into the antagonist of the situation.

And I love how people 'know' what a new born baby would turn out like. Ummmm pretty sure it would just be a baby, by the time it grew up (14 years later) the books would be over and we wouldn't have to worry about him. DUH

But once again, anything to make Dany look bad right??

IMO, you can compliment her for ridding the world of Drogo (as far as we know, the strongest of the khal's) without having to say a single thing about Dany. If that was her motivation, than she is an unsung hero IMO. If it was mere revenge, I would say less so. And if the plans involved killing an unborn child, hell no.

[MoIaF]

Ok, a disclaimer: I'm not a Dany stan in the least. She annoys me, Stannis 4 life, etc

But I gotta agree with Light a wight tonight, Mirri really did nothing. Drogo was dead either way and Rhaego would have been killed by the other Khals either way, Jorah said as much.

And also there's this: Mirri decided to betray Dany because, well, she didn't really have much in the way of options. I appreciate her kamikaze moment allright, but she wasn't really a hero or a saint or anything. Now, Dany may stumble from fail to fail, but saying she doesn't really care about the slaves is an unfair accusation. If she truly didn't give a shit, then why refuse Xaro's offer to get on the ships and gtfo? Why refuse Quentyn's offer? Why marry Hizdahr and decide to establish a peace with Yunkai? Her methods must be borderline stupid, but she has the heart in the right place

And this: if it hadn't been for Mirri, there would probably be no dragons (according to some theories, I think the fandom is a bit torn on this)

Not bad, Jon, not bad...

All in all MMD is a victim but she's not a hero, killing an unborn child to supposedly save the world is not heroic. I don't blame her for what she did to Drogo, she believed she got vengeance for her people but she was well aware that her vengeance would cost her her life.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

IMO, you can compliment her for ridding the world of Drogo (as far as we know, the strongest of the khal's) without having to say a single thing about Dany. If that was her motivation, than she is an unsung hero IMO. If it was mere revenge, I would say less so. And if the plans involved killing an unborn child, hell no.

Well they did involve killing an unborn child. MMD admits to Dany (afterwards) that she wanted and planned for Rhaego to die.

Yay what an awesome baby-killing hero. three cheers! hip hip hooray!

[The King in Black]

Well they did involve killing an unborn child. MMD admits to Dany (afterwards) that she wanted and planned for Rhaego to die.

Yay what an awesome baby-killing hero. three cheers! hip hip hooray!

Baby killing is justified on this forum, duh...but to be fair rhaego was most like to follow in his father's footsteps so not really crying for him

[JonSnow4President]

Well they did involve killing an unborn child. MMD admits to Dany (afterwards) that she wanted and planned for Rhaego to die.

Yay what an awesome baby-killing hero. three cheers! hip hip hooray!

If we're getting technical, she doesn't (unless I'm blind). She does say he will not grow up to be a rapist/plunderer, but she doesn't admit to planning Rhaego's death. What she does say is that Rhaego was the cost for Dany's revival, and tells Dany that she knew the real cost. (Which on reread, I am less willing to call her hero, admittedly).

[Mithras]

Jorah killed Rhaego.

[Mithras]

All MMD needed to do was to kill Drogo. The new khals would kill Rhaego anyway. And Dany with him most likely.

[lostcause]

hahaha good one! This thread is terrible, the negativity on it could congeal and form a large brain tumor.

There is no way to compliment MMD without turning Dany into the antagonist of the situation.

And I love how people 'know' what a new born baby would turn out like. Ummmm pretty sure it would just be a baby, by the time it grew up (14 years later) the books would be over and we wouldn't have to worry about him. DUH

But once again, anything to make Dany look bad right??

Posts like this doesn't exactly raise the level of debate.

Never understood the need to view MMD to the level of "hero". That doesn't make her particular villainous either though.

Her village and others like it, were and remain the constant target of raiders. As we know she herself suffered greatly at the hands of these raiders.

Dany saved her from further rapes, although one might say the damage was done already. Further more she was still a slave of the Khal and Khaleesi, and most likely heard stories during her time there about how Dany was carrying a child, destined to be the champion of the people she has always feared and dreaded.

With all this in mind, even if she had planned it all from the start (am not so sure she had); I think there are plenty of Planetos-ethically justifiable reasons for her to do so.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Posts like this doesn't exactly raise the level of debate.

Never understood the need to view MMD to the level of "hero". That doesn't make her particular villainous either though.

Her village and others like it, were and remain the constant target of raiders. As we know she herself suffered greatly at the hands of these raiders.

Dany saved her from further rapes, although one might say the damage was done already. Further more she was still a slave of the Khal and Khaleesi, and most likely heard stories during her time there about how Dany was carrying a child, destined to be the champion of the people she has always feared and dreaded.

With all this in mind, even if she had planned it all from the start (am not so sure she had); I think there are plenty of Planetos-ethically justifiable reasons for her to do so.

And what makes you think I was trying to raise the level of debate? I saw the amount of thought going into all the other posts and put mine at the same level.

[lostcause]

And what makes you think I twas trying to raise the level of debate? I saw the amount of thought going into all the other posts and put mine at the same level.

Good question, I guess I thought you'd show them how it should be done? :)

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Good question, I guess I thought you'd show them how it should be done? :)

Some days I do not have enough energy.

[nastydream]

So a little baby with no resources would rape the world?I understand killing drogo,but how can killing a baby be justified in any case?

I should be happy I guess that Dany isn't called "the mad bitch" at least

Also the op is the obvious anti-feminist guy I see on youtube all the time.

Succesfull bait is succesfull.

P.S this thread gave me cancer

[Mithras]

MMD didnot kill Rhaego.