Britisher Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Also he brought with him a wet-nurse from Ashara. Perhaps Jon = Brandon Stark's child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerArthurHeath Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 OK then, why did Eddard visit Ashara after Lyanna if it is Lyanna's child and then why did Ashara mysteriously kill herself after this and then return home to Winterfell with an infant child called Jon Sand SnowNot clear on this, but possible theories are:Ned and Ashara did share feelingsNed told Ashara that he'd just killed her beloved brother and returned his swordAshara may not have committed suicide (I believe she did) but is still alive Te middle one seems most likely to me. If she also loved Brandon, or Ned who had married Cat, then the loss of her lover and brother would be hard to bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerArthurHeath Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Also he brought with him a wet-nurse from Ashara. Perhaps Jon = Brandon Stark's child? This is another suggested theory, the problem with it is apparently Jon should be older, unless he were small for his age or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 So, to recapitulate events: - at the tourney of HH, Rhaegar crowns Lyanna- a year passes- Aegon is born and Elia cannot have any more children- Rhaegar disappears with Lyanna, along with Whent and Dayne, and no-one knows where they are- Brandon goes to KL, Aerys gets mad, kills Brandon, his companions and their fathers- Aerys demands the heads of Ned and Robert, Jon Arryn defies the order, the Rebellion starts- Rhaegar is not heard from until he returns after the Battle of Bells OK then, why did Eddard visit Ashara after Lyanna if it is Lyanna's child and then why did Ashara mysteriously kill herself after this and then return home to Winterfell with an infant child called Jon Sand SnowTry to put some thought how was Ned to transport Jon to the North without alerting anyone to the fact that he is returning with a newborn from a location where his sister died after she spent months in the company of a Prince who had a crush on her and whose fertility was proven. Hint: Starfall is by the sea. And, it is actually not stated anywhere (in the books) that Ned returned along with an infant. Yeah, a few things, most of them rarer than death from childbirth, but they'd be odd causes of death. Hope the poor girl didn't get Ebola...Yuck. But I hear that Ebola strives in hot humid climate, which doesn't sound much like Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 He didn't visit Ashara, he visited Starfall. Also he brought with him a wet-nurse from Ashara. Perhaps Jon = Brandon Stark's child? Sperm doesn't time-travel. Try better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Also he brought with him a wet-nurse from Ashara. Perhaps Jon = Brandon Stark's child? Nope. Brandon died before Jon was conceived, remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 OK then, why did Eddard visit Ashara after Lyanna if it is Lyanna's child and then why did Ashara mysteriously kill herself after this and then return home to Winterfell with an infant child called Jon Sand Snow To return Dawn. And she lost a baby, a baby-daddy (Brandon), and a brother in a very short amount of time. So she may not have been in the best mental state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenFire3 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Just because you found similar wording doesn't make them related at all - sorry but I think your interpretation of the text is just grotesquely manipulated. Yes my interpretation must be off or grotesquely manipulated if after several re-reading and 60 educated versions of this thread I didn't quite catch that: 1) Aerys was so round the bend that sent Hightower in search for Rhaegar while the heir apparent was lazily chilling in KL (probably confused him for Rhaella) 2) Ned slayed Rhaegar 2) Jon is one year older than what I've deduced or was already on botox or/and is an elephant 3) Brandon's sperm was cryogenically treated and one year later donated Also I should have checked the wiki before/instead of reading the books :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadwood Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 ...and that the bitterness he shows at one moment ("everything was always for Brandon") hints that in the presence of his dashing brother, Ashara never reciprocated his feelings. Where is that from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Where is that from? AGoT before Ned leaves Winterfell, assuming I have the right passage here: That brought a bitter twist to Ned's mouth. "Brandon. Yes. Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, ever ything. He was born to be a King's Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadwood Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Thanks.I don't get a feeling of bitterness towards Brandon from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenFire3 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Where is that from? AGoT, chapter 6, Cat POV. ETA @Chebyshov Yes, that's the passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Thanks. I don't get a feeling of bitterness towards Brandon from that. Well, that's how I read "a bitter twist to Ned's mouth." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Thanks. I don't get a feeling of bitterness towards Brandon from that. Well I'm sorry but if that's true then you are reading it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenFire3 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Well, that's how I read "a bitter twist to Ned's mouth." Exactly. It's as if Ned blames him for the cup/burden he recklessly passed to him. To be read together with: ‘The wolf blood,’ my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britisher Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 So, to recapitulate events: - at the tourney of HH, Rhaegar crowns Lyanna - a year passes - Aegon is born and Elia cannot have any more children - Rhaegar disappears with Lyanna, along with Whent and Dayne, and no-one knows where they are - Brandon goes to KL, Aerys gets mad, kills Brandon, his companions and their fathers - Aerys demands the heads of Ned and Robert, Jon Arryn defies the order, the Rebellion starts - Rhaegar is not heard from until he returns after the Battle of Bells Try to put some thought how was Ned to transport Jon to the North without alerting anyone to the fact that he is returning with a newborn from a location where his sister died after she spent months in the company of a Prince who had a crush on her and whose fertility was proven. Hint: Starfall is by the sea. And, it is actually not stated anywhere (in the books) that Ned returned along with an infant. Yuck. But I hear that Ebola strives in hot humid climate, which doesn't sound much like Dorne. Yes in one of Cat's chapters she says she can remember the night Eddard bought him home. We've established that Rhaegar loved her, it is made clear, but that doesn't mean she's immune to being raped by him - plus he stole her from the family. You can say she consented but REALLY, as if she would run off and let her brother and father die at the hands of the mad king? And try not to end it and save her lover... Yes he might have gone via Starfall for the sake of transporting Jon home, but no, that's were you are wrong. He went to return Ashara's brother's (I think) sword back to the family (after the 'battle' at Rape Tower). This was around the time of her giving birth to a child and flinging herself off of the tower. Perhaps Jon is not his child, but only Ashara's (and yes, if you are going to pick FAULT again I mean Ashara's and a man as well because that's how you make children - incase you are too narrow-minded to understand that's what I mean)? After all she is characterised as having [dark] violet eyes is she not ? Dorne is hot and wouldn't being stuck up in rape tower up in the sky be quite humid...? Also I assume Rhaegar took her through the Reach or the ocean to get to the tower - both of these are warm and humid (I believe, especially south of Dorne). You could even say that Lyanna made Ned promise her to take Ashara's baby... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadwood Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Well I'm sorry but if that's true then you are reading it wrong. No. GRR is clever in his clues (across the board) lead to different conclusions. I read it the way I read it, it is different to you. It is not wrong. Possibly a bitterness towards fate, or the way things went, a smidgeon towards an elder sibling who should have carried the burden, the burden that has shaped Ned's universe. But in my mind not a bitterness against Bran personally for his faults. Even Robert (who under objective eyes acts like a lust filled knob) doesn't instil any trace of bitterness. Ned's personality traits seem beyond those sorts of feelings on that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Cat wasn't even in Winterfell before Jon arrived. He got there first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 snip First, how Ashara's purple eyes related when Jon's eyes aren't purple? Lyanna made Ned promise to take Ashara's baby? Why? How did she know of the baby? Why take it? Ang again, because it's not enough, why? Also, you should tone down a little. You don't have one single post that doesn't contain a factological error, yet you are bold enough to simply declare people wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerArthurHeath Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 The dark purple eyes thing was probably in reply to what was said about Rhaegar's dark indigo eyes vs Jon's dark Gray that may or may not show up as purple in the right circumstances, like other Targs in disguise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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