[Book Spoilers] R+L=J and other theories on HBO V.2

[FrozenFire3]

Thanks again. :)

I'm just really interested in taking a peek into the Stark family closet, because I bet it's just as colorful as the Targaryens.

The "She-wolves of Winterfell" (or whatever it will be titled) has been delayed. Spoiler-ish content is my guess...

Rogues is an anthology that GRRM helped edit. One of the stories included there is also written by GRRM and is set around the time of the Blackfyre Rebellion. The rest of the stories are written by other authors and have nothing at all to do with ASoIaF.

She-wolves: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/The_She-Wolves_of_Winterfell

It's set before the time of the Dance of the Dragons (Daemon Targaryen's early life).

I dont need all these spoiler tags, does it bother anyone else if we dont use them?

No need for spoiler tags when it comes to book spoilers. But what about series spoilers/rumours/previews?

[Ygrain]

Also: what is it going on with Grey Worm and Missandei? And, since Grey Worm doesn't remember anything from his childhood, is it possible that they turn out brother and sister?

[Alia of the knife]

Yeah... which reminds me, are they going to cast Lady Stoneheart? Or is this going to be dropped?

Thinking of the changes to Jaime, they also had him strangle his cousin (I don't understand the purpose of it) and now he was willing to break his KG vows again - alright, it was for Tyrion, but the book Jaime is trying to redeem himself as a KG, as well.

Last I heard, it was a go, but instead of over-the-top appearance, they will just leave her as almost "vampiric" with a small hint towards the throat injury.

I think the logistics of acting the "book look" are harder.

As for Grey Worm, I think he said he was from the Summer Islands.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Also: what is it going on with Grey Worm and Missandei? And, since Grey Worm doesn't remember anything from his childhood, is it possible that they turn out brother and sister?

Who is Missandei's brother in the book? I can't remember right now

[Ygrain]

Who is Missandei's brother in the book? I can't remember right now

IIRC, Marsellen.

[Tormund GiantsMANE]

Are you suggesting IB = Loan sharks and FM = IB goons?

If that's what you are getting at I agree with you, you cannot be loaning ppl huge sums of money left and right without having a proper debt collecting system

I thought at least part of their "system" was backing at least one faction that opposes the debtor, as well as cutting off all further loans. Isn't that one of the primary reasons the IB rolls with Stan?I get having enforcers, but i think having the FM being IB hitmen is a little too obvious. Also if the Lannisters for example have been in their debt for some time now and are openly refusing payment, how long do they take to collect/enforce? Furthermore, how does having a FM kill say Tommen get them their money. They are still a bank, and their endgame is to be made whole again. A Lannister may always pay their debts (more of a threat than a promise of payment), but the Iron Bank always gets its due. They always get back what they are owed. I think that refers directly to backing another power that will overtake the debtor and then pay the IB what they are owed.

[Seneti]

Who is Missandei's brother in the book? I can't remember right now

In the book she has three brothers. One dies before the beginning of ASOIAF, the other two are Unsullied, one of whom is assassinated by the Sons of the Harpy in ADWD.

[MoIaF]

Potential Crackpot

ALERT

In the episode thread for this week they were discussing the theme music for this season. Here is the link http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/111360-bookshow-spoilers-synopsis-promo-recap-and-speculation/?p=5874541

The theme music for the episode The Children is the same music is similar to the music they had for the Mhysa episode, which I found very interesting. As some of you might know I've been trying to document the similarities between Bran and Dany so I'm not too surplice that Bran and Dany might share a theme.

Anyhow, this made me think about how this seasons finale would relate to previous seasons season finales. Here is where the potential crackpot might come in. I realize that the last three season finales have alternated between fire and ice. Let me explain, the first season finale ended with the hatching of Dany's dragons (fire): http://youtu.be/T9TSqV7G0NY Also, the theme song is the same/similar as the one in Mhysa.

The second season finale had the White Walker walking toward the Wall with the Wights (ice): http://youtu.be/91C701Jq-tU This scene happened right after Dany locks XXD in his vault and sacks his house.

Finally, the third season ended with Dany once again in the Mhysa episode (fire): http://youtu.be/2Xv9Emwi1Cc Once again in this episode we have the same/similar theme used as in the birth of the dragons episode.

Well, after watching all three finale (final scenes) back to back I noticed something else (potential crackpot no. 2). Each episode ends with a cry, the "fire" episodes ended with Drogon's cry and the ice episode ended with the WW cry which sounded like a perverted version of Drogon's. Now, I don't know if this might mean anything, it could just be they way they wanted to end it, but I did find it curious.

This made me think that the finale this year might end somewhere in the North (ice) either showing us the WW again or with Bran. As for next season, well, we have Dany in the Dothraki Sea which would make for a good finale.

What does this all mean? I have no idea, it might just be the creators way of giving homage to the ice / fire theme of the series. Or there could potentially be something more there. I just thought I should point it out, in case any of you could come up with a better answer.

ETA: Also noticed that Dany was inside a "circle" in both her finales, first inside the pyre then so rounded by the freed slaves.

[OnlyOne]

I just realized that the show has made a connection I've been working on. I've been collecting similarities between Dany and Bran (see my signature). As we know on the first episode this season Bran saw the same vision that Dany did in the House of the Undying (Kings Landing). Now, this could serve two purposes it gives more clues towards R+L=J but it also connects a Bran and Dany.

I'm not sure the vision was the same. Dany saw snow in her vision of the IT. Bran saw what seemed to be a destroyed red keep and ash. I do think R+L=J, but I think the two visions are different. Thoughts?

[Onna Lewyys]

-snip-

While I agree with your overall theory that this season will probably end with "Ice" (and apparently not with LS as so many people expected), I have to point out that "The Children" is not the same music as "Mhysa." "The Children" is literally the main title theme sung by a choir. It's true that "Mhysa" has elements of the main title in it, but I'm pretty sure a lot of the different themes do.

As to your second point, perhaps they were consciously making an implicit connection between Dany's dragons and the Battle for the Dawn. The dragons are sure likely to be a powerful weapon there.

[MoIaF]

I'm not sure the vision was the same. Dany saw snow in her vision of the IT. Bran saw what seemed to be a destroyed red keep and ash. I do think R+L=J, but I think the two visions are different. Thoughts?

They are the same. When Dany walks into the Red Keep it's completely destroyed: http://youtu.be/l7VuGknEfQY

At the very end Bran sees the same imagine (but Dany isn't in it of course):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6fq-elMOKg

While I agree with your overall theory that this season will probably end with "Ice" (and apparently not with LS as so many people expected), I have to point out that "The Children" is not the same music as "Mhysa." "The Children" is literally the main title theme sung by a choir. It's true that "Mhysa" has elements of the main title in it, but I'm pretty sure a lot of the different themes do.

As to your second point, perhaps they were consciously making an implicit connection between Dany's dragons and the Battle for the Dawn. The dragons are sure likely to be a powerful weapon there.

I just listed to them again and you are right they aren't the same but they are very similar. Having the theme song play in parts of the background of the Mhysa song made it sound the same to me. However, that's just a sniped of The Children song, so there might be changes to that song as well.

[Onna Lewyys]

True, it's only 30 seconds. :p

[MoIaF]

True, it's only 30 seconds. :P

Indeed! ;)

Anyhow, my point was that making the two songs similar to each other might (and that might be a big might) imply a connection between Bran and Dany. I also like the inspiring nature of both the songs, it kind of makes you feel like good things are coming. :D

However, knowing ASOIAF it might just be a false since of hope. :p

[Onna Lewyys]

Dany's was certainly a false sense of hope. She's really beginning her descent now.

[FrozenFire3]

Jon Snow rolling in the fire and emerging quite unscathed. Really? :lol:

[MoIaF]

Jon Snow rolling in the fire and emerging quite unscathed. Really? :lol:

I know! Wink, wink, right? ;)

[MoIaF]

Dany's was certainly a false sense of hope. She's really beginning her descent now.

The moment was hopeful and what she did for the slaves was a source of inspiration, but yeah no good dead goes unpunished it seems.

Potential Crackpot

ALERT

In the episode thread for this week they were discussing the theme music for this season. Here is the link http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/111360-bookshow-spoilers-synopsis-promo-recap-and-speculation/?p=5874541

The theme music for the episode The Children is the same music they had for the Mhysa episode, which I found very interesting. As some of you might know I've been trying to document the similarities between Bran and Dany so I'm not too surplice that Bran and Dany might share a theme.

Anyhow, this made me think about how this seasons finale would relate to previous seasons season finales. Here is where the potential crackpot might come in. I realize that the last three season finales have alternated between fire and ice. Let me explain, the first season finale ended with the hatching of Dany's dragons (fire): http://youtu.be/T9TSqV7G0NY Also, the theme song is the same as the one in Mhysa.

The second season finale had the White Walker walking toward the Wall with the Wights (ice): http://youtu.be/91C701Jq-tU This scene happened right after Dany locks XXD in his vault and sacks his house.

Finally, the third season ended with Dany once again in the Mhysa episode (fire): http://youtu.be/2Xv9Emwi1Cc Once again in this episode we have the same theme used as in the birth of the dragons episode.

Well, after watching all three finale (final scenes) back to back I noticed something else (potential crackpot no. 2). Each episode ends with a cry, the "fire" episodes ended with Drogon's cry and the ice episode ended with the WW cry which sounded like a perverted version of Drogon's. Now, I don't know if this might mean anything, it could just be they way they wanted to end it, but I did find it curious.

This made me think that the finale this year might end somewhere in the North (ice) either showing us the WW again or with Bran. As for next season, well, we have Dany in the Dothraki Sea which would make for a good finale.

What does this all mean? I have no idea, it might just be the creators way of giving homage to the ice / fire theme of the series. Or there could potentially be something more there. I just thought I should point it out, in case any of you could come up with a better answer.

ETA: Also noticed that Dany was inside a "circle" in both her finales, first inside the pyre then so rounded by the freed slaves.

Thought of something else. In the first Dany ending she "births" the dragons and in the second finale she is surrounded by her "children".

Showing once again how important motherhood is to Dany's character.

[Alia of the knife]

Jon Snow rolling in the fire and emerging quite unscathed. Really? :lol:

LOVED it!

And also wondering who Aemons mystery girl was.(If she was a Northern girl, I'll have to be peeled from the ceiling). :)

[FrozenFire3]

LOVED it!

And also wondering who Aemons mystery girl was.(If she was a Northern girl, I'll have to be peeled from the ceiling). :)

Olenna? Aemon's speech with Sam sounded like a mirror-like version of Olenna's with Margaery. And they have already tweaked with books chronology in the past...

[Alia of the knife]

Olenna? Aemon's speech with Sam sounded like a mirror-like version of Olenna's with Margaery. And they have already tweaked with books chronology in the past...

I don't know, given Olennas desire for power and her machinations, it feels like she was the one thrown over and might have been one of the Houses insulted that Selmy alluded to when the Targaryens married for love rather than alliance.

(And poor Aemon if that was he that she described so poorly), lol.

If anyone, I thought it might have been Duncan who threw Olenna over for Jenny.