[Book Spoilers] R+L=J and other theories on HBO V.2

[MoIaF]

Said it before and I'll say it again. Bran will warg Drogon. It is known.

I doubt it, it's most like a connection between Bran and Dany (as future allies). I've been documenting the similarities between Bran and Dany (see my signature) which there are many parallels. However, there is a good chance that Bran will indeed warg a dragon.

[Emperoreddy]

There's an interview up at EW.com with Alex Graves where he says that as he told the story, the Hound is done. He asks how the Hound could survive--good question, since TV Hound has blood poisoning and a compound leg fracture--and says that [the Hound's survival] is not left open-ended, but the point is that Arya walks away. It could be trolling, but remember that Alex Graves has said that he insisted D&D spoil him for future books, so...

Graves also said D&D didn't tell him if LS was in next season, just that she never was in the plans for this season. It is open ended enough for the hound to be alive if he needs to be and he may not know yet (hell odds are outside of George only D&D know if the gravedigger is the hound and if he has a role to play still).

The Jon Mel look was so damn long and deliberate that it definitely felt like some foreshadowing. Torrmund's line too. See if Bran's training in greenseeing adds some more hints next season.

[Newstar]

Graves also said D&D didn't tell him if LS was in next season, just that she never was in the plans for this season. It is open ended enough for the hound to be alive if he needs to be and he may not know yet (hell odds are outside of George only D&D know if the gravedigger is the hound and if he has a role to play still).

Well, those are two different things. Alex Graves would probably not know whether Lady Stoneheart was in the next season or not unless D&D told him, since they're writing the TV adaptation and they can (and will, clearly) write it however they like. However, we do know that Alex Graves requested and received details as to future plots in post-ADWD books from D&D, so it seems likely he knows exactly what happens with the Hound, if anything. Whether or not he's trolling with his statements about the Hound is another matter altogether, but given that he knows what happens in future books, I'm inclined to take his comments about the Hound being "gone" somewhat more seriously.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

OK, I watched again.

What did you guys think of the little CGI Leaf? she looked like Dobby :)

also Bloodraven was pretty cool. That's about how I pictured him, except did he have red eyes?

[binhorde]

The Mance/Jon scene was interesting and strange at the same time. I felt like there was something there, hidden beneath the surface that D&D were treading very carefully around. From the camera angles used, to the interesting shot of Davos standing alongside Stannis on one side and Jon standing alongside Mance on the other. I don't know what to make of it, especially since all of it was TV invented dialogue.

[sj4iy]

OK, I watched again.

What did you guys think of the little CGI Leaf? she looked like Dobby :)

also Bloodraven was pretty cool. That's about how I pictured him, except did he have red eyes?

...I don't see any resemblance between Leaf and Dobby. Pretty sure she wasn't CGI, either.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

...I don't see any resemblance between Leaf and Dobby. Pretty sure she wasn't CGI, either.

What??? Look at her face again, she was totally CGI

[~DarkHorse~]

I'm pretty sure Leaf was just a kid wearing make-up for added paleness- http://cdn.winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/cotf.jpg

I also found this line from Mance to Jon curious- "Could you really kill a man who has just offered you peace?" (paraphrased). Maybe he will someday? Or be faced with this decision in the future?

And I saw This shot discussed on Reddit as a R+L=J clue. Jon stands before a background of half ice and half fire when he pauses and cries.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I'm pretty sure Leaf was just a kid wearing make-up for added paleness- http://cdn.winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/cotf.jpg

I also found this line from Mance to Jon curious- "Could you really kill a man who has just offered you peace?" (paraphrased). Maybe he will someday? Or be faced with this decision in the future?

And I saw This shot discussed on Reddit as a R+L=J clue. Jon stands before a background of half ice and half fire when he pauses and cries.

I think her body was a real actress, but I think that face had a little computer in it. I could be wrong, but I'm usually pretty good at picking out CAD. I'll watch that scene again and see. She looks really different from her real-life picture, and not just the make-up, but the shape of her face seems different to me, around the eyes.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3238466/

this is the actresses IMBD page.

[sj4iy]

I think her body was a real actress, but I think that face had a little computer in it. I could be wrong, but I'm usually pretty good at picking out CAD. I'll watch that scene again and see. She looks really different from her real-life picture, and not just the make-up, but the shape of her face seems different to me, around the eyes.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3238466/

this is the actresses IMBD page.

I just don't see anything that suggests they did anything digitally to her face:

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s389/sj4iy/leaf_zpsc099bcd4.png

(best front view of her face)

[sj4iy]

I'm pretty sure Leaf was just a kid wearing make-up for added paleness- http://cdn.winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/cotf.jpg

I also found this line from Mance to Jon curious- "Could you really kill a man who has just offered you peace?" (paraphrased). Maybe he will someday? Or be faced with this decision in the future?

And I saw This shot discussed on Reddit as a R+L=J clue. Jon stands before a background of half ice and half fire when he pauses and cries.

I don't think that is so much foreshadowing and showing who is the better 'player' in that situation...and it ends up being Mance, because Jon has come there to kill him, and Mance says "Could you really?" Mance knows what kind of man Jon is, and he's using that against him. Notice how he started the conversation about Ygritte...this wasn't idle chit chat. He's really trying to gauge Jon.

I can't really see the 'fire and ice' in the background of that picture, though- I think the important part of that picture is that Jon is crying for once...something we haven't seen him do.

[Onna Lewyys]

Also didn't you guys feel the confrontation between Stannis and Jon was very much regal? Like two kings assessing each other (as already noted, Jon "can never be a kneeler again").

I love that Stannis is already asking and taking Jon's advice.

Dany & Jon Shippers!

A very nice parallel last night, both Dany and Jon burned their first loves in pyres in their loved ones true "homes". Dany burned Drogo in the Dothraki Sea and Jon burned Ygritee in the "true" North. ;)

:box:

:)

And I saw This shot discussed on Reddit as a R+L=J clue. Jon stands before a background of half ice and half fire when he pauses and cries.

There's also the shot from 4x09 of Ygritte dying in his arms. To the left of Jon is fire, to the right, ice.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Can Emilia and Kit just date in real life please :)

[Onna Lewyys]

The wide shot of Bran & co first setting eyes on the cave is very interesting too. The tree and the sky above it are like a spot of fiery orange in an otherwise icy blue landscape.

[Logodnica]

Interesting what they decided to do with Sam in this episode. He is stern, in complete control of his emotions, and ensuring what Jon wants is getting done and ensuring that what Jon is asking for, people are delivering on. Also giving Jon advice is something I found interesting, given him telling Grenn they need more men, and Grenn saying go tell Jon, as he's in command, and Sam doing just that. He's not trying to supersede the one in command, but giving strategy advice to the one in command.

I mean I would be a liar if I said Hand of the King didn't go through my mind when watching Samwell Tarly in this episode.

Hand of the King... Brilliant. And I hope Sam's father lives to see it.

[Adam with one D]

Between his conversations with Mance and Stannis, Mel seeing him 'in the fire' and Ygritte getting shot through the heart with an arrow and then he cries as he burns her... it felt like a lot of forshadowing for Jon in the last two episodes for me.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

What did you guys think of the little CGI Leaf? she looked like Dobby :)

Darling, that's her face =(

[Emperoreddy]

I don't think that is so much foreshadowing and showing who is the better 'player' in that situation...and it ends up being Mance, because Jon has come there to kill him, and Mance says "Could you really?" Mance knows what kind of man Jon is, and he's using that against him. Notice how he started the conversation about Ygritte...this wasn't idle chit chat. He's really trying to gauge Jon.

I can't really see the 'fire and ice' in the background of that picture, though- I think the important part of that picture is that Jon is crying for once...something we haven't seen him do.

Agree with you, shot and scene was more character development for Jon then foreshadowing. You could sort of tell he has been holding his grief in hard from the end of episode 9 and all of 10, putting it aside to attempt to be a leader and hold his own in conversations with these other powerful figures. Then he finally cracks. Jon's tv character has gone through a lot and grown a lot this season.

Foreshadowing is more his conversation with Stannis IMO. Stannis seems to be trying to size Jon up, and it seems like Jon comes out worthy. The Mel stare because its been established in the show how much she focuses on what she sees in the flames and "king's blood". That line about Jon not being a kneeler anymore too.

[Annara Snow]

Oh, absolutely. It is also a matter of timeline (Aemon is 32-40 years older than Olenna, Duncan is a much better fit). But we are not in bookverse, this is GoT where details can change and timelines can be loosely adapted ;)

Olenna is too young to have ever been considered a match for Duncan, who would have been a grown man and probably already married to Jenny when she was a child. At least book Olenna, who is about 60; I don't know how old show Olenna is supposed to be. (As GRRM pointed out, Olenna is Mace's mother, not his grandmother.) Olenna is Aerys's generation, not the generation of his father and uncles (and Duncan was the eldest brother of Jahaerys).

Show Olenna may be Duncan's generation, since Duncan (if he exists in show canon) is Aerys' brother in the show. But she's waay too young to be any kind of love interest for young Aemon, she wasn't even born then. He is a very old man and is at least old enough to be her father (and I mean in our world, not ASOAIF where they normally become parents as teenagers). He is over 100 years old in the books and is played by a 90+ old man in the show.

[Annara Snow]

God I hope not. I just want him to be at peace. Why is that not an acceptable ending for people?

Because there's no evidence that he's actually at peace and he never chose to actually be there, and may likely be staying there because he has nowhere else to go?

Because that kind of 180 character change is extremely unlikely? Sandor is going to be happy as a silent celibate monk for all his life? Gimme a break.

Because Stranger not allowing to be gelded is a big hint he's not going to be happy with that fate?

Because there are some 100 hints that he has a significant role to play in the future, such as, say, a bunch of other characters talking about him throughout AFFC, Sansa thinking about him and fantasizing about him in every chapter, the entire buildup of the character, "the Lord of Light is not done with him" etc.?