NBA Continued - Conference, Finals, and Beyond

[Ziggy Targdust]

Whatever you need to tell yourself to win the argument, im done. You won't listen anyway. Like effeciency is something to brag about at under 18ppg

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Why listen to no proof?

[Ziggy Targdust]

Sorry @!littlefinger and Kali, you guys are cool. Didn't mean to be rude to you. That other guy threw me off when he came in calling me a dick and a cock, I don't have the effort to continue with that shit lurking about

[KalibakCruel]

Whatever you need to tell yourself to win the argument, im done. You won't listen anyway. Like effeciency is something to brag about at under 18ppg

What proof have you presented besides PPG? Scottie was the superior passer, which is a sizeable chunk of the offensive game, and the easily superior defender which is HALF of the game. Scottie is better overall, and better at more things, and better at more important things.

Wilkins was a ball stopper who couldn't pass the first round with Moses Malone

[KalibakCruel]

Sorry @!littlefinger and Kali, you guys are cool. Didn't mean to be rude to you. That other guy threw me off when he came in calling me a dick and a cock, I don't have the effort to continue with that shit lurking about

Hey no worries, sports is always heated discussion lol I've been in plenty worse.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

You don't owe me an apology, you've done nothing wrong. I just don't, just can't, agree with you.

[jarl the climber]

What proof have you presented besides PPG? Scottie was the superior passer, which is a sizeable chunk of the offensive game, and the easily superior defender which is HALF of the game. Scottie is better overall, and better at more things, and better at more important things.

Wilkins was a ball stopper who couldn't pass the first round with Moses Malone

Pippen spent most of his career playing with Jordan. He had two years on the Bulls where Jordan wasn't there. They did OK the first year and got to the second round of the playoffs but he threw a tizzy when Kukoc got the call for the game wining shot instead of him. THe next year with Grant gone, they weren't even playing .500 ball only Jordan coming back saved their season. Pippen was a very nice player but he couldn't carry a team like Wilkins could and Pippen had much better players around him. Malone for instance was on his last leg when he played with Wilkins.

[KalibakCruel]

Pippen spent most of his career playing with Jordan. He had two years on the Bulls where Jordan wasn't there. They did OK the first year and got to the second round of the playoffs but he threw a tizzy when Kukoc got the call for the game wining shot instead of him. THe next year with Grant gone, they weren't even playing .500 ball only Jordan coming back saved their season. Pippen was a very nice player but he couldn't carry a team like Wilkins could and Pippen had much better players around him. Malone for instance was on his last leg when he played with Wilkins.

Well the first year they won 55 games, and the next year playing .500 ball Scottie was still named to the all nba team and was one of the best players in the league.

In fact Scottie has more first ask nba team appearances than Wilkins, while Wilkins never even made a third team all defensive team.

Scottie is seen as either the best perimeter defender of all time or top 4 at worst, while Wilkins isn't top a 10 scorer, not in total points or even overall (overall taking into account highs of career, careers that's aren't over, people with similar point totals but better efficiency).

Scottie was just better. Wilkins also failed to do anything when Malone averaged 20/10 so it's not just when he was doing nothing.

And again, Scottie is seen as one of the best perimeter defender ever, that's half the game, while Wilkins claim to fame is his scoring, and he's not top 10 in that regard.

[aeu]

Pippen is not overrated. Wilkins is underrated. There, I solved the problem for you...

Lebron criticism: I thought people are just trolling / having a bit of fun and not really thinking Lebron (of all people) is to blame somehow. It would be beyond absurd to seriously blame him, especially if you watched the game and saw how he looked.

Then again, there are a lot of really stupid people on the internet.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Pippen is not overrated. Wilkins is underrated. There, I solved the problem for you...

Lebron criticism: I thought people are just trolling / having a bit of fun and not really thinking Lebron (of all people) is to blame somehow. It would be beyond absurd to seriously blame him, especially if you watched the game and saw how he looked.

Then again, there are a lot of really stupid people on the internet.

The problem is, 100% of the worlds stupid people have access to the internet. So trying to figure out which of isn't one of that 100% is impossible.

[Relic]

The problem is, 100% of the worlds stupid people have access to the internet. So trying to figure out which of isn't one of that 100% is impossible.

Oh, that's certainly not true :p

Anyway, Pippen was an amazing player, as was Wilkins. However Pippen could do everything. Everything. He was a freak on the court and the second most valuable player on 6 championship teams.

[jarl the climber]

Pippen is not overrated. Wilkins is underrated. There, I solved the problem for you...

Lebron criticism: I thought people are just trolling / having a bit of fun and not really thinking Lebron (of all people) is to blame somehow. It would be beyond absurd to seriously blame him, especially if you watched the game and saw how he looked.

Then again, there are a lot of really stupid people on the internet.

Yeah Wilkins just didn't have good players around him or if they were good they were past there prime like Moses Malone. 20/10 sounds good but when Malone was in his prime he was 25/15, 30/20, he was limited on defense and wasn't a good passer, his offensive rebounding did mesh well with Wilkins game but the rest, not so much. I remember him singlehandedly taking the an 80's Celtics team to 7 games in the playoffs, if Bird and him had switched their supporting casts the Wilkins team would have taken it in 4 or 5 games.

[Jaime L]

I do take issue with the "Lebron carries the heaviest burden" line. Dwyane Wade is one of the best 2's of all time, and is healthy this postseason. Bosh is a 9 time all star, Ray Allen is the best three point shooter of all time. All three are NBA Hall of Famers. They aren't the players they were five years ago, but they are still very good and have played very well this postseason. The collapse had a lot to do with Lebron's absence, but (IMO) more because it was unexpected and forced them to change their dynamic in crunch time, and not because the rest of the Heat players are inadequate to the task.

That's fair. Can't really disagree with any of this. Let me amend to say that Dwyane Wade at this stage in his career is still a credible #2. We might have had a better chance to see it if not for the heat. Bosh probably is too but it's been so long since we've seen him in anything but the sidekick role. This remains among the most skilled and battle tested teams in the league, but it's one that's also completely constructed around Lebron's gifts. And I think Lebron going down is uniquely brutal to any team he's on because you're not just losing your best scorer - you're losing your best passer, your best rebounder, your best defender...

What proof have you presented besides PPG? Scottie was the superior passer, which is a sizeable chunk of the offensive game, and the easily superior defender which is HALF of the game. Scottie is better overall, and better at more things, and better at more important things.

Wilkins was a ball stopper who couldn't pass the first round with Moses Malone

I think this is the most efficient summary of the difference between the two players.

ETA: And yeah Frisky, I think Pippen had the perfect skillset and willingness to be a #2. The latter is a rarer attribute than one might imagine but then again so is the former. Wade and Kobe clearly are most effective as alpha dogs. Worthy and McHale weren't as versatile as Pippen. If I could have anyone as a #2 on a title contending team, I think I take Pippen,

[Ramsay B.]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1750052-we-remember-scottie-pippen-posterization-of-patrick-ewing-in-1994

One of my favorite dunks ever.

[Relic]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1750052-we-remember-scottie-pippen-posterization-of-patrick-ewing-in-1994

One of my favorite dunks ever.

Thanks for reminding me why i hated the Bulls so much. He straight up kneed Ewing in the stomach and then stepped over him like the douche bag that he was. Fuck what i said i about Pippen, he wouldnt have been shit without Jordan haha.

[Relic]

You willing to maintain that position if we start searching for the worst excesses of those Knicks teams?

I think your man got off easy there. :)

Hey man, everyone was dirty back. but yeah yeah i know...

ugh, that clip brought back some bad memories.

[Ramsay B.]

Hey man, everyone was dirty back. but yeah yeah i know...

ugh, that clip brought back some bad memories.

Haha. It was dirty but so was their rivalry. My dad loves Knicks and I live close to NYC but I was always a Bulls guy...those were the days.

[Minaku]

Thanks for reminding me why i hated the Bulls so much. He straight up kneed Ewing in the stomach and then stepped over him like the douche bag that he was. Fuck what i said i about Pippen, he wouldnt have been shit without Jordan haha.

Oh that's where Relic is! I was wondering what happened to you with all the Mr. Nice Guy I'm Living In Beautiful Climates And Fuck New York stuff.

You guys can talk up DWade and Bosh all you want, talk about how amazing the bench is for Miami, but they're streaky and not as reliable as you think they should be. When LeBron went out, Miami just quit. A team with DWade, Bosh, Allen, Rashard Lewis?!?! and all the other veterans shouldn't quit like that, ever. LeBron is truly the leader and the centerpiece of the Heat. It's not the Big 3, it's the Big 1. I blame Spo also for not lighting a fire under their asses and finding some hustle. This game was close. It could have gone either way. The Spurs saw the wound and went for the kill, but the Heat could have defended just a little.

Why did LeBron cramp up? Probably because he was everywhere in the third quarter. His defense was magical.

Edit: This year has to be the Playoffs For Old Guys. I'm constantly surprised at what these creaky dudes can do. Ray Allen, dunking?

[KalibakCruel]

Not to mention the terrible idea that was putting Chalmers in the game late. His TO and terrible defense was directly responsible for at least 7 points given up.

[davos]

You guys can talk up DWade and Bosh all you want, talk about how amazing the bench is for Miami, but they're streaky and not as reliable as you think they should be. When LeBron went out, Miami just quit. A team with DWade, Bosh, Allen, Rashard Lewis?!?! and all the other veterans shouldn't quit like that, ever. LeBron is truly the leader and the centerpiece of the Heat. It's not the Big 3, it's the Big 1. I blame Spo also for not lighting a fire under their asses and finding some hustle. This game was close. It could have gone either way. The Spurs saw the wound and went for the kill, but the Heat could have defended just a little.

Why did LeBron cramp up? Probably because he was everywhere in the third quarter. His defense was magical.

You take away an all-time elite player away from any team at a critical juncture in a finals game against a team of the caliber and experience of the spurs, and the almost certain result is a loss, regardless of how great the rest of the team is. The fact that they couldn't find way to gut out a win should not be interpreted as showing the weakness of the Heat's supporting cast as instead a demonstration of how good the Spurs are at effectively utilizing any advantage to its maximum.