Daenerys Stormborn - A Re-Read Project Part III: ASoS & ADwD

[Mithras]

“Your Grace,” said Jorah Mormont, “I saw King’s Landing after the Sack. Babes were butchered that day as well, and old men, and children at play. More women were raped than you can count. There is a savage beast in every man, and when you hand that man a sword or spear and send him forth to war, the beast stirs. The scent of blood is all it takes to wake him.”

Was Jorah speaking utter BS or was he talking from experience?

Suzanna, Gregor’s all men including Shitmouth fought in his battles and skirmishes. He may or may not take part in rapes, tortures, we do not know for certain. But I guess he had to commit some evil stuff at least to show that he is not weak. Among such a nasty lot as Gregor’s men, he might have been victimized to their cruelty if he had not shown that he was strong. I think his exceedingly foul language serves a similar purpose. People are known to act like that in fear of being bullied in a company.

Assuming that Shitmouth occasionally raped women and killed innocent villagers along with Gregor’s Men; does this make him an evil man who deserves to be tortured to death like the evil slavers?

Steelshanks Walton commanded Jaime’s escort; blunt, brusque, brutal, at heart a simple soldier. Jaime had served with his sort all his life. Men like Walton would kill at their lord’s command, rape when their blood was up after battle, and plunder wherever they could, but once the war was done they would go back to their homes, trade their spears for hoes, wed their neighbors’ daughters, and raise a pack of squalling children. Such men obeyed without question, but the deep malignant cruelty of the Brave Companions was not a part of their nature.

Is Walton an evil man who deserves to be tortured to death like the evil slavers?

“Lord Randyll has better ways to deal with broken men—steel and hempen rope.”

“Ser? My lady?” said Podrick. “Is a broken man an outlaw?”

“More or less,” Brienne answered.

Septon Meribald disagreed.

And then Septon Meribald gives his famous speech about the broken men, which is one of GRRM’s favorites.

In fact, one of the main themes in the entire AFfC is this; what do the wars do to people?

“They burned everything at Saltpans, save the castle. Only that was made of stone . . . though it had as well been made of suet for all the good it did the town. It fell to me to treat some of the survivors. The fisherfolk brought them across the bay to me after the flames had gone out and they deemed it safe to land. One poor woman had been raped a dozen times, and her breasts . . . my lady, you wear man’s mail, so I shall not spare you these horrors . . . her breasts had been torn and chewed and eaten, as if by some . . . cruel beast. I did what I could for her, though that was little enough. As she lay dying, her worst curses were not for the men who had raped her, nor the monster who devoured her living flesh, but for Ser Quincy Cox, who barred his gates when the outlaws entered the town and sat safe behind stone walls as his people screamed and died.”

“Ser Quincy is an old man,” said Septon Meribald gently. “His sons and good-sons are far away or dead, his grandsons are still boys, and he has two daughters. What could he have done, one man against so many?”

He could have tried, Brienne thought. He could have died. Old or young, a true knight is sworn to protect those who are weaker than himself, or die in the attempt.

“True words, and wise,” the Elder Brother said to Septon Meribald. “When you cross to Saltpans, no doubt Ser Quincy will ask you for forgiveness. I am glad that you are here to give it. I could not.”

Elder Brother is one of the nicest persons in the series but even he could not forgive Quincy of barring his gates while the atrocities in the Saltpans were taking place. Yet Septon Meribald can forgive even him.

Is Quincy an evil man who deserves to be tortured to death like the evil slavers?

Suzanna, I think your “kill the slavers, kill them all!” opinion overlooks many important questions GRRM wants to make us ponder in the series such as the ones I tried to present above.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

PW,

I totally get what you are saying. And I am not the one who brought up the Riverlands examples. I dont think the situations are the same as what the Meereenese did to Dany. They taunted an oncoming army/freed slave hoarde (whose soul purpose is to march on these cities and free all the slaves) with 163 dead slave children. they did this on purpose to tease and fuck with Dany, they were stupid, and she retaliated. End of story. As I have said before I do not like discussing morality of characters because it is pointless in these novels. As you pointed out in your post above, everyone has done something at some point for which they deserve to die for, including Dany. So it is so pointless to discuss who deserves to die. the only thing that matters is who has the stronger and smarter sword. Slavery is a different sort of crime than what you are talking about though, it is not a one-time act in the heat of battle, it is these people's entire way of life and their careers, how they support their entire cities. It is not the same as what is happening in Westeros, and therefore can we stop comparing them, just stay with the subject at hand instead? I am sorry I even said that thing about Clegane.

Anyway in a slaver community where you chain humans and kill them constantly for no reason, you give up all rights to a 'fair' trial, and if someone comes along and doesnt like what you are doing, then you have to deal with that person, and the absolute worst way to possibly deal with said person, is to kill 163 slave children and parade them in front of her. Like I said, they did it first and they did it for no reason except to piss her off. they were so freaking STUPID. So not only are they slavers, but they are total morons, they deserve to die just for being so dumb. At the point when they killed the children, she hadnt even attacked Meereen yet, and as we all know, her decision would have been different had they not killed the 163. These gross idiots brought everything on themselves and I think it's nuts to defend them in any way.

[DragonDreamer]

The slavers are evil fucks, period. Regardless of whether or not some or all of them agreed to kill those poor slave babies, they are in fact bottom feeding filth. These same men are part of an organization or council or whatever that manages Meereen. As part of this group they oversea amongst many things the fighting pits in which a child might be bathed in honey and literally thrown at a bear. I highly doubt that those who objected to the crucifixion of the poor kiddies did so on moral grounds, most likely those who objected did so because they feared that if they lost the fight against the Stormborn she’d open a keg of whoop ass on them, which of course she went on to do.

The problem as Annara put it is that the Stormborn’s action to reciprocate in kind lowered her to the level of the slavers. Dany really does have the moral high ground when it comes to fighting slavery, she is better than the slavers but in order to continue to maintain that moral high ground she has to show that she won’t be like the slavers. Of course someone should have been punished for what happened, those little babied deserved justice, but there had to be a better way. This isn’t to say that I judge the Stormborn for what she did, she did it in the heat of war, and make no mistake it was war. But her own thoughts about it after it all went down show that she questions whether she did the right thing, and I’m not sure if she’d do the exact same thing if she could do it all over again.

I think instead of fretting about some poor little ol’ slaver who might have been innocent of one atrocity we should be discussing what this has thought our girl. How will this decision affect her future decisions?

[BearQueen87]

The slavers are evil fucks, period. Regardless of whether or not some or all of them agreed to kill those poor slave babies, they are in fact bottom feeding filth. These same men are part of an organization or council or whatever that manages Meereen. As part of this group they oversea amongst many things the fighting pits in which a child might be bathed in honey and literally thrown at a bear. I highly doubt that those who objected to the crucifixion of the poor kiddies did so on moral grounds, most likely those who objected did so because they feared that if they lost the fight against the Stormborn she’d open a keg of whoop ass on them, which of course she went on to do.

The problem as Annara put it is that the Stormborn’s action to reciprocate in kind lowered her to the level of the slavers. Dany really does have the moral high ground when it comes to fighting slavery, she is better than the slavers but in order to continue to maintain that moral high ground she has to show that she won’t be like the slavers. Of course someone should have been punished for what happened, those little babied deserved justice, but there had to be a better way. This isn’t to say that I judge the Stormborn for what she did, she did it in the heat of war, and make no mistake it was war. But her own thoughts about it after it all went down show that she questions whether she did the right thing, and I’m not sure if she’d do the exact same thing if she could do it all over again.

I think instead of fretting about some poor little ol’ slaver who might have been innocent of one atrocity we should be discussing what this has thought our girl. How will this decision affect her future decisions?

My hope is that Dany learns that actions have consequences and she learns to weigh everything. She can be a just and good ruler, but she has recognize that every ruling she makes is going to come with repercussions, some of which might be very unintended. Honestly, Dany needs a really good Hand. Someone who will present all arguments and tries to get her to see what are all the possible outcomes, especially when she wants to answer injustice.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I think instead of fretting about some poor little ol’ slaver who might have been innocent of one atrocity we should be discussing what this has thought our girl. How will this decision affect her future decisions?

Yea that's what I was trying to get across, its more important to focus on the psyche that led to this decision and how it affects her future decisions.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

My hope is that Dany learns that actions have consequences and she learns to weigh everything. She can be a just and good ruler, but she has recognize that every ruling she makes is going to come with repercussions, some of which might be very unintended. Honestly, Dany needs a really good Hand. Someone who will present all arguments and tries to get her to see what are all the possible outcomes, especially when she wants to answer injustice.

I think she needs a maester aswell, Aemon's advice has been very useful for Jon.

[BearQueen87]

I think she needs a maester aswell, Aemon's advice has been very useful for Jon.

I agree. She needs a Hand and a Maester. She probably needs an entire small council, but let's get Dany those two positions first. Hmm. Anyone traveling to her at the end of ADWD that might prove useful? (IMO: yes)

[PatrickStormborn]

DAENERYS I (ADwD)

"All kneel for Daenerys Stormborn, the Unburnt, Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Shackles, and Mother of Dragons."

Summary:

Following the end of A Storm of Swords, Dany has settled as the queen of Meereen. The chapter opens with Dany being delivered the body of her Unsullied Stalwart Shield, who was slain in a brothel where he paid women to lie and hold him. Barristan reveals that a harpy was drawn in blood on the bricks in the alley where his body was found, the mark of the Sons of the Harpy. She orders her men to investigate the killing, so that she "might teach the Harpy's Sons what it means to wake the dragon". Barristan warns her that Unsullied are not suited to this task, but the rest of her forces are unavailable: she sent the Dothraki to subdue Meereen's hinterlands, Daario and the Stormcrows to make an alliance with the Lhazarene, and Brown Ben Plumm and the Second Sons to defend Meereen against Yunkish attacks south of the city.

Outside on her terrace she finds Viserion, whilst Rhaegal and Drogon hunt. She notes that they "were growing wild of late", Viserion going so far as to set fire to Reznak's tokar. She accepts the blame for this as she has left them to themselves, but reflects that she cannot find the time for them. She enters her chambers and is dressed for court in a tokar. She had wanted to ban the garment upon taking Meereen, but her advisors had warned her against that decision with Galazza Galare, the Green Grace of Meereen, telling her she "must don the tokar or be forever hated". Brown Ben explains it: "Man wants to be the king o' the rabbits, he best wear a pair o' floppy ears".

Whilst reflecting on the deaths of her family members, Dany remembers the 163 slave children crucified every mile between Yunkai and Meereen. She thinks about how she punished the Great Masters, and fears "that she had not gone far enough". The Great Masters oppose her at every turn, paying meagre wages to their old slaves and casting out any who were no longer of use. But she decides that "to rule Meereen I must win the Meereenese, however much I may despise them".

She holds court, where the Astapori envoy asks that she join Cleon in his war against the Yunkai'i, to which Dany responds that he should free his own people before marching against Yunkai. The next petitioner is Hizdahr zo Loraq, who has returned for a sixth time to request she re-opens the Fighting Pits. She considers whether she should take him for a husband, and reflects that he would at least be a better husband than the Shavepate, who had offered to set aside his wife for her. She alternates between hearing petitions from former masters and former slaves. Generally, the problems brought before her are about dealing with the consequences of the sack, but many are there to receive compensation for their sheep, burned and eaten by her dragons. Reznak mo Reznak, a Meereenese seneschal who advises Dany, clears the court of the petitioners, but one remains. He reveals burned bones and tells Daenerys that "it were the black one ... the winged shadow". She realises they are the bones of a child.

Observations:

1. Dany's three Meereenese advisers are essentially introduced to us off-page. I wonder if GRRM deliberately keeps them vague for the readers to reflect Dany's general lack of knowledge about the Meereenese?
   
2. This chapter is an interesting parallel to Cersei's first A Feast for Crows chapter, where she learns of Tywin's death and Tyrion's escape.
   
3. Viserion is the only dragon to make an appearance in this chapter, and only briefly.
   
4. Although Dany has conquered Meereen and alienated the Great Masters, she has now begun to attempt to assimilate into their culture by adopting the tokar (the "floppy ears").
   
5. We are shown a number of petitioners who are not satisfied with Dany's rulings, but a lot of her problems are unavoidable as she issued a blanket pardon on crimes committed during the sack and refuses to punish slaves for rising up against their masters.
   

Queen of Meereen

An unspecified amount of time has passed between the end of ASoS and the beginning of ADwD, but I assume it's been no more than a month. Enough time has passed for Dany's rule to be established but still fragile, as we see she is still dealing with the ramifications of the sack. Whilst Dany is trying her best to restore the city, she is unfortunately having to clean up the problems she's already created rather than looking forward; most of the petitioners are seeking recompense for problems caused by the sack, the ending of slavery, or the dragons, none of which would be problems had Dany not conquered the city.

Her advisers are extremely different from each other:

• Skahaz mo Kandaq, known as the Shavepate as he shaved his hair to symbolise his turn away from the Old Meereen, is the most ruthless of the three advisers. He declares that her enemies are the Great Masters and urgers her to match the kills of the Sons of the Harpy.
  
• Reznak mo Reznak serves as her seneschal. He is far less ruthless than the Shavepate and generally seems to act as a bridge between Daenerys and the Great Masters. Although not in this chapter, it is later revealed that his family are helping to blockade the city.
  
• Galazza Galare, known as the Green Grace, is the high priestess of the Temple of the Graces. She supports Dany's new regime but is clearly loyal to Meereen and not Daenerys.
  

Beyond the walls

Dany's problems are unfortunately not limited to Meereen itself. In Astapor, Cleon the Butcher King prepares for war against the Yunkai'i, which Dany will not risk joining; she knows that to march south would mean losing Meereen. Perhaps marrying Hizdahr immediately and reconciling the city to her rule before the Yunkai'i forced her into that position would have made marching south a possibility.

Meereen's hinterlands have not yet submitted to her rule, so Dany sends her small khalasar under the command of her bloodriders (who double as her khos) to subdue them. She also sends the Stormcrows to forge an alliance with the Lhazarene so that trade can resume. At least in this Dany is working forwards and making long-term plans, although unfortunately it will prove futile; the Lhazarene are a peaceful people, after all, and taking control of the hinterlands won't solve the problems she's already facing.

Mother of Dragons

Viserion is the only dragon to make an appearance in this chapter, and his appearance is brief. Drogon and Rhaegal are out of sight hunting. So, for perhaps the first time since their birth, the biggest presence the dragons have in this chapter is their lack of presence; their absence, combined with the burned bones of the sheep and Hazzea, serve as a startling awakening for both Dany and us as readers. We're familar with the dragons being dangerous: Drogon killed the Undying, melted the face of Kraznys, and set fire to the Yunkish envoy's tokar. So in some ways it's his absence that really makes this turn in events more startling; we're forced, like Dany, to accept the truth of Drogon's actions objectively. The revelation that he burned and ate a child is a stark contrast to Dany's interactions with Viserion (also significant, as Viserion is the most gentle of the dragons).

Just as they have in the previous books, the dragons are the perfect symbol of Daenerys herself. Their hunting is causing problems for her, just as her actions in Meereen are causing problems for herself. Perhaps most significantly is the symbolism of Drogon and Hazzea vs Daenerys and Meereen. Drogon aims to kill his prey (sheep) and kills a child in the process, just as Dany aims to overthrow slavery and kills innocents in the process.

Conclusion

I won't lie, I found this chapter far harder to analyse than any of the others, particularly with the knowledge of future events. This chapter marks the turn of Dany's story to one that many readers are unhappy with, but I find it to be perhaps the most complex narrative GRRM has yet presented to us. There are no easy solutions to any of the problems Dany faces. The easiest one, of course, is abandoning Meereen, but even that would be difficult to achieve, and continues to get more difficult after the revelation that Drogon killed Hazzea.

[DragonDreamer]

My hope is that Dany learns that actions have consequences and she learns to weigh everything. She can be a just and good ruler, but she has recognize that every ruling she makes is going to come with repercussions, some of which might be very unintended. Honestly, Dany needs a really good Hand. Someone who will present all arguments and tries to get her to see what are all the possible outcomes, especially when she wants to answer injustice.

I think she might have learned that and perhaps she'll also learn that as a ruler you have to live with some awful consequences at times. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The fight she has decided to take on is against a very dirty enemy who'd do just about everything to maintain the status quo. She tried reasoning with the Yunkai and the Mereeneese and look how that turned out. The Yunkai declared war on her and slavery was returning to Meereen. Like somebody said up thread when you half-ass shit it never works out.

Yea that's what I was trying to get across, its more important to focus on the psyche that led to this decision and how it affects her future decisions.

Yup! This is about Dany not so shithole slaver. How are these action and those we will be reading about soon mold Dany. GRRM said she's going to embrace her heritage and her words, what does that actually mean? We have a lot of Targaryen history and there are many difference ways to do fire and blood, what can we learn from ADWD and the other books about what type of fire and blood Dany will be embracing. That's what we need to be talking about and looking at when discussing these chapters.

I agree. She needs a Hand and a Maester. She probably needs an entire small council, but let's get Dany those two positions first. Hmm. Anyone traveling to her at the end of ADWD that might prove useful? (IMO: yes)

The Stornborn, although very gifted, does need some series help. GRRM said she really wouldn't be with Tyrion and I don't know how then she'd meet up with Marwyn but it would be good if she would meet up and interact with at least one of them. Although I'm not holding my breath.

[BearQueen87]

The Stornborn, although very gifted, does need some series help. GRRM said she really wouldn't be with Tyrion and I don't know how then she'd meet up with Marwyn but it would be good if she would meet up and interact with at least one of them. Although I'm not holding my breath.

If she doesn't interact with Tyrion at least in some way shape or form in WOW, I am going to be very upset. Been waiting for that since I read aGoT for the first time 10 years ago.

And Oh! another chapter analysis! Goodie. *goes to read*

[BearQueen87]

Nice analysis! All from PatrickStormborn's post

Whilst Dany is trying her best to restore the city, she is unfortunately having to clean up the problems she's already created rather than looking forward; most of the petitioners are seeking recompense for problems caused by the sack, the ending of slavery, or the dragons, none of which would be problems had Dany not conquered the city.

The law of unintended consequences. While killing the slavers might have been just its lead to some rather unfortunate repercussions in the city. Dany wants to move forward and "build and heal" but she's failing to understand how drastic cultural shifts affect the conquered. Did she expect that after she dealt with the slavers, Meereen would simply lay down and accept her changes? Sadly, not the way it works.

This is going to play out more and more over ADWD as she tries to meet the demands of a people that she is not a part of. In fact, if there is a theme to Dany's arc in ADWD, I think this chapter gives us the first real glimpse of it: Dany is not Meereenees, she does not belong here.

Galazza Galare, known as the Green Grace, is the high priestess of the Temple of the Graces. She supports Dany's new regime but is clearly loyal to Meereen and not Daenerys.

And my candidate for the Harpy

We're familar with the dragons being dangerous: Drogon killed the Undying, melted the face of Kraznys, and set fire to the Yunkish envoy's tokar.

And every time we are reminded of their danger, it's in service of getting Dany home to Westeros, to be Queen, or to save her life against someone the dragons perceive as a threat (Renzak). This is the first time, IIRC, where an innocent who does not oppose Dany herself or her rule is killed. Her lingering in Meereen is causing the death of innocents--both the child and the freedmen who are slain by the Sons of the Harpy. Her reasoning for staying in Meereen was to protect her "children" but it's not going so well.

But if she leaves, the dragon danger will be gone, but the slavery danger will once again visit the city of Meereen. She's stuck in between a rock and a hard place.

My own thoughts on ADWD Dany I

She had been dreaming of a house with a red door when Missandei woke her.

Dreaming of her concept of HOME, and here it comes...a big slap in the face from some in Meereen: "you are not welcome here. You do not belong. We reject you as our ruler." From a girl who began her life on the run because her families dynasty feel, it can't be a very happy thought.

Dothraki were wise where horses were concerned, but could be utter fools about much else. They are only girls, besides.

Interesting internal thought from Dany since her mantra, since ASOS, has been "I am only a young girl..." as a way of disarming those who come before her. But, also, look at GRRM's description of her in this scene: eyes soft with sleep, tousled hair, wearing a sleeping shift, and dreaming of her childhood home. She has never been more childlike than right now, confronted with a very adult situation. She rises admirably, becoming Queen Daenerys, but her internal thoughts show us how upset she is, : "the blood of the dragon does not weep"

"Women do not forget. Women do not forgive" (Skahaz)

No, Dany thought, and the Usurper's dogs will learn that, when I return to Westeros

Dany's long term plans are STILL to go back to Westeros. But her long term plans in Meereen are to bring down the Sons of the Harpy, to plant new fields, to promote peace and prosperity. It's a daunting task for any ruler, even one who intends to stay put and not leave. The fact that Dany still wishes to return to Westeros and take the IT should be an indication that her heart (and her dragons) just don't belong in Meereen anymore, if indeed they ever did.

I think one of the reasons why readers get frustrated with Dany's ADWD arc is that Dany herself recognizes that she does not belong in Meereen; that with every passing ruling or decision to become one of the Meereenees, she looses more of herself. Yet she won't pack up and go.

[Parwan]

This chapter begins to flesh out a point I made earlier. In the beginning of her rule, Dany concentrated on taking revenge. She should have concentrated on taking control. She thinks, "In some of those pyramids, the Sons of the Harpy are plotting new murders even now, and I am powerless to stop them." I don't see why the Great Masters are still in control of the pyramids. Even with these strong points in control of her enemies, she should not be powerless to stop the murders. She certainly wouldn't be powerless if she had 163 hostages.

Miladen said it pretty well a few pages back. Whatever message Dany was trying to send, it was lost in translation.

[Nictarion]

I've read Mormont's arguments and I'm not convinced. IMHO, the author's point is that even a compassionate, sympathetic character can have a cruel streak to her.

I don't think you'd find one single person on this forum that wouldn't agree that she has a cruel side to her. But as Mormont has pointed out (and many of us agree with) showing how awful Daenerys is was almost certainly NOT the authors intentions wrt how she handled the slavers.

[SeanF]

I don't think you'd find one single person on this forum that wouldn't agree that she has a cruel side to her. But as Mormont has pointed out (and many of us agree with) showing how awful Daenerys is was almost certainly NOT the authors intentions wrt to how she handled the slavers.

I certainly don't think the author was portraying it as being a positive thing, or even a harsh, but necessary, act of battle.

[SeanF]

Patrick, many thanks for your summary,

Dany gets quite a lot of stick for her judgements, but with one exception, they were reasonable. If she was to rule effectively, then an amnesty was the only sensible way to proceed. That means that injustices are done in individual cases, to the boy whose mother was raped and murdered, or to the woman who was formerly a sex slave. But, if she tried to punish people for what took place prior to her rule, she'd face a nightmare of litigation. Alternatively, she'd just have to govern in a thoroughly one-sided manner - and almost certainly face far more unrest.

The one exception was the ruling that the woman who had fled her house should receive her jewels back, but not her house. Where is the sense in that? As others have pointed out, it quite neatly undercuts her own claim to Westeros.

[SeanF]

This chapter begins to flesh out a point I made earlier. In the beginning of her rule, Dany concentrated on taking revenge. She should have concentrated on taking control. She thinks, "In some of those pyramids, the Sons of the Harpy are plotting new murders even now, and I am powerless to stop them." I don't see why the Great Masters are still in control of the pyramids. Even with these strong points in control of her enemies, she should not be powerless to stop the murders. She certainly wouldn't be powerless if she had 163 hostages.

Miladen said it pretty well a few pages back. Whatever message Dany was trying to send, it was lost in translation.

I'm not sure that even taking hostages would have worked. We don't know (and Dany and the Shavepate don't know) what the exact link is between the Great Masters and the Sons of the Harpy. Perhaps they are in charge of the terrorist campaign; perhaps they limit their support to money, and moral support.

If the Sons are like the Brotherhood Without Banners, then the bulk of their support would be drawn from the poorer members of society. They support the Tullys and hate the Freys and Lannisters. They get a lot of support from the gentry of the Riverlands, like Lady Smallwood, but they aren't being directed by them. If Jaime were to take hostages from among the gentry and threaten them with execution, unless the Brotherhood ceased operations, it wouldn't deter the Brotherhood. They'd want to avenge the hostages, but they wouldn't cease to operate.

In Meereen, the Great Masters, minus those who were crucified, and who died in the defence of the city, got off pretty lightly. Their pyramids were largely unscathed in the sack; they have vast amounts of wealth; wages have plummeted, so they can hire back their former slaves for a pittance. And because the slaves are free, they can kick out those who are too old or sick to work. The middle classes and poor, on the other hand, have suffered far worse. They bore the brunt of the sack, they find it far harder to find work, and their wages are now worth far less, due to the influx of foreign workers who came from Astapor and Yunkai. They have every reason to hate the new regime, and I suspect quite a few of them have finished up as Sons of the Harpy.

Meereenese society is in many ways a mystery. We see quite a bit of the Great Masters, and ex-slaves, much less of the free poor and middle classes. How much influence and control the Great Masters have over the latter, is something we aren't privy to.

[Nictarion]

The one exception was the ruling that the woman who had fled her house should receive her jewels back, but not her house. Where is the sense in that? As others have pointed out, it quite neatly undercuts her own claim to Westeros.

Sorry but I absolutely hate this argument. Daenerys is not asking for the Iron Throne back.

[SeanF]

Sorry but I absolutely hate this argument. Daenerys is not asking for the Iron Throne back.

She's not meekly asking for it back. She's claiming it back, as of right. But, I don't think that weakens the analogy.

[Nictarion]

She's not meekly asking for it back. She's claiming it back, as of right. But, I don't think that weakens the analogy.

Agree to disagree.

[MoIaF]

She's not meekly asking for it back. She's claiming it back, as of right. But, I don't think that weakens the analogy.

I'm sorry Sean, but it's a very poor analogy at best.

Dany didn't leave Westeros, she was taken away as an infant. She's not asking for Westeros at ALL, she knows she needs to conquer and that's the reason for her gaining an army. If she was going to ask for it back she wouldn't need an army.

She's going to take what she believes is hers with Fire and Blood. The circumstances are just not comparable at all.