Daario - the opposite of fake

[No Song so Sweet]

Still Daario IS pretending that he is not Benjen, Rhaegar, Euron and the mother of Young Griff. He is keeping all those secret identities from Daenerys.

[Nictarion]

Daario is among the scum, as Gregor, brave fellows, and Second Sons.

You can't be serious? Gregor and his men are some of the most terrible people in the books. Daario doesn't even come close. Unless he murdered children and committed a bunch of rapes that I'm not remembering. He's just a typical sellsword. Would you compare Bronn to Gregor?

[Mikkel]

Daario is not Gregor-level evil, or at least we haven't heard enough of his deeds to assume he is, but he's in no way a "good man", or decent, or honourable. If all he was, was a good-looking guy that Dany bedded, that'd be fine. His facilitating, and taking a cut from, slave-trading, on the other hand... is something I find it hard to understand Dany allows.

[Wmarshal]

Almost forgot about this thread. Well lets see: I have no doubt he has raped and murdered, the stormcrows are near BC in repute. His sponging off Dany and pushing slave trade is horrid.

[I'm the Party Pooper]

Daario is not Gregor-level evil, or at least we haven't heard enough of his deeds to assume he is, but he's in no way a "good man", or decent, or honourable. If all he was, was a good-looking guy that Dany bedded, that'd be fine. His facilitating, and taking a cut from, slave-trading, on the other hand... is something I find it hard to understand Dany allows.

I thought no one was trying to argue that.

Wasn't this thread supposed to state whether or not Daario character is authentic, consistent, 'the opposite of fake'?

Since there is plenty of characters that are morally 'grey' in this story, nor honourable, yet only Daario gets all the hate.. the OP wanted to know where it comes from.

For example, Tywin is not a good man, is not decent and is not honourable. But has got a large fan base. So it must not be 'that' part of Daario that makes him the least liked.

[Wmarshal]

Because he is a show boat sponge.

[Mikkel]

For example, Tywin is not a good man, is not decent and is not honourable. But has got a large fan base. So it must not be 'that' part of Daario that makes him the least liked.

Can't tell you why people like Tywin as I'm no fan of him, either.

But sure, Daario is authentic enough, if that's all you want to discuss.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Daario has a different view of the world because he's from a sellsword company in Essos, not Westeros. It's a completely different set of values. Either way, that doesn't mean he completely lacks morals or standards. Gregor murders children and rapes woman, we don't know if Daario has done that. He doesn't look like he would kill kids, and considering how he speaks of the women ha has slept with, it looks like he would feel some sort of "pride" on making them desire him, not forcing them into him.

That doesn't make him a saint, though.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Daario reminded me of Shae even to finding those scenes somewhat annoying if necessary for character development of Daenerys.

He is not hiding the fact that he scum as good as politicians do, and he might provide a more authentic sexual attraction experience for Daenerys but I don't think he is authentic or in love with Daenerys. And even Daenerys herself is having doubts in book just like Tyrion did with Shae. Daenerys needs that authentic experience and Daario provides the best delusion of one, but that not mean his motives are good for her, even if he is sexually attracted to her. He is using Daenerys for his own purpose and as someone else said other men might identify with that, that is wrong because most men are not the kind of scumbags Daario is. When he is recommending to her to commit massacres among massacres, you kind of see a bad influence.

Additionally the theme of tragedy born out of the love life choices and delusions is something we see with Rhaegar-Lyanna, Jaime-Cersei, Littlefiner-Lysa, Littlefinger-Catelyn, Sansa-Joffrey, Tyrion-Shae, well with Jon and Ygrite for a GRRM romance it ended better than usual (just Ygrite dead), and I don't see why Daario-Daenerys would be any different. Certainly plenty of clues about Daario's true nature like Shae's being just a whore, though it is kind of too unfair for Shae to be compared to Daario. I think in most of the above cases, the Westeros world would benefit more if the high lords involved followed less their heart, lust and more their duty to the people and the realm. Tried to find love and happyness in that context of giving a damn about the consequences to others and trying to make it work. Ned and Catelyn style.

I don't see how Daario is outside that category of distructful relationships, especially considering how much of a scum he is and what solutions he is recomending on someone who already has a cruel side. Maybe repressed due to self acknowledgment of what she might becoming in most of ADWD.

And sure enough at the end of the last book she decides to unleash fire and blood partly inspired by Daario. Which I can't see be good for a lot of innocents, which is the case for many Daenerys decisions.

[Kyoshi]

I actually prefer Daario to either Shae or Tywin. Maybe it's the blue hair and golden tooth... :dunno:

[I'm the Party Pooper]

Daario reminded me of Shae even to finding those scenes somewhat annoying if necessary for character development of Daenerys.

He is not hiding the fact that he scum as good as politicians do, and he might provide a more authentic sexual attraction experience for Daenerys but I don't think he is authentic or in love with Daenerys. And even Daenerys herself is having doubts in book just like Tyrion did with Shae. Daenerys needs that authentic experience and Daario provides the best delusion of one, but that not mean his motives are good for her, even if he is sexually attracted to her. He is using Daenerys for his own purpose and as someone else said other men might identify with that, that is wrong because most men are not the kind of scumbags Daario is. When he is recommending to her to commit massacres among massacres, you kind of see a bad influence.

Additionally the theme of tragedy born out of the love life choices and delusions is something we see with Rhaegar-Lyanna, Jaime-Cersei, Littlefiner-Lysa, Littlefinger-Catelyn, Sansa-Joffrey, Tyrion-Shae, well with Jon and Ygrite for a GRRM romance it ended better than usual (just Ygrite dead), and I don't see why Daario-Daenerys would be any different. Certainly plenty of clues about Daario's true nature like Shae's being just a whore, though it is kind of too unfair for Shae to be compared to Daario. I think in most of the above cases, the Westeros world would benefit more if the high lords involved followed less their heart, lust and more their duty to the people and the realm.

Didn't the attempt of "do the duty and not follow the heart" cause some important rebellions under Targaryen rule?

I fear there is no straight recipe for doing the 'world good'

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I can't honestly remember, but has Daario ever lied to Dany? Because, to answer the OP, at least, to her eyes, he is honest. Barristan and Jorah, her most trusted advisers have both, in a way, deceived her. Daario has never done that, he's honest about what he is and what she should expect of him.

[Mikkel]

I fear there is no straight recipe for doing the 'world good'

Or if there is, no one has found it yet, in their world or ours.

I can't honestly remember, but has Daario ever lied to Dany? Because, to answer the OP, at least, to her eyes, he is honest. Barristan and Jorah, her most trusted advisers have both, in a way, deceived her. Daario has never done that, he's honest about what he is and what she should expect of him.

That depends, for instance there's a decent chance that the self-selling "willing slaves" are not all that willing, or that they're being "helped along" on the path to "willingness", as it were. It's as yet unproven, of course.

[Kyoshi]

I can't honestly remember, but has Daario ever lied to Dany? Because, to answer the OP, at least, to her eyes, he is honest. Barristan and Jorah, her most trusted advisers have both, in a way, deceived her. Daario has never done that, he's honest about what he is and what she should expect of him.

I think he may be lying about who he is. I doubt he's Benjen or Euron but there's something there. Ever since Young Griff I find myself wary of handsome men with blue hair and blue eyes. In every other way though Daario is the opposite of fake. He is what and who he is. What you see is what you get...minus the glamour.

[Mikkel]

I think he may be lying about who he is. I doubt he's Benjen or Euron but there's something there. Ever since Young Griff I find myself wary of handsome men with blue hair and blue eyes. In every other way though Daario is the opposite of fake. He is what and who he is. What you see is what you get...minus the glamour.

Hmm, I doubt his erstwhile fellow captains, now sans heads, think he "is what he says he is", ie their brother-in-arms.

[LordStoneheart]

He is Aegon's mother obviously. ;)

As far as his honesty goes, he definitely gives that vibe. He straight up tells Dany about his bad thought and deeds. I can only think of one lie, which is more of a boast. the been with 100 / 1000 women line but still, more of a boast than a lie. Like Tormund as his member... out of here before the Tormund's Members show up to tell me I'm wrong about that. :leaving:

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Didn't the attempt of "do the duty and not follow the heart" cause some important rebellions under Targaryen rule?

I fear there is no straight recipe for doing the 'world good'

Not sure to what you refer to. I know more about mainline events and have read only the main books, don't really know all that much for pre AGOT events.

I do know of Aegon's the unworthy decision. Certainly disastrous example of him screwing with the dynasty and causing a lot of strife and blood over his whim of legitimizing his bastards, certainly him putting duty behind either love or foolishness or whatever.

When a character of GRRM provides a quote on the issue in the books it's reffers to the tragedy of love over duty:

Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna and thousands died for it. Daemon Blackfyre loved the first Daenerys, and rose in rebellion when denied her. Bittersteel and Bloodraven both loved Shiera Seastar and the Seven Kingdoms bled. The Prince of Dragonflies loved Jenny of Oldstones so much he cast aside a crown, and Westeros paid the bride price in corpses. All three of the sons of the fifth Aegon had wed for love in defiance of their father's wishes. And because that unlikely monarch had followed his heart when he chose his queen, he allowed his sons to have their way, making bitter enemies when he might have made fast friends. Treason and turmoil followed, as night follows day, ending at Summerhall in sorcery, fire and grief.

Even more examples.

I fear there is no straight recipe for doing the 'world good'

Well that is a bit of a cope out generalization. Sure context always matters and often a recipe does not work in a different context, but marriage and relationships are politics, and we see enormous bloodshed being had due to those wrong choices of putting desire over duty and even survival self interest. In those many situation it is the right recipe because the love affair caused damage. But sure it is not always a dichotomy between love and duty but often it exists with desire having harmful consequences (Now that reminds me another relationship Arys and Arianne in addition to the Baristan ones) But maybe unrealistic to expect it from humans which makes this indirectly a criticism of a system based on humans keeping it in their pants.

All those examples I provided and the bloodshed caused seems to point to a consistent problem over desire being chosen over duty to the people, realm and even often to your own actual interest. But I don't deny that there are circumstances that are more complicated than that but it is also true of the many examples that would have better mutual outcome (for the nobles themselves and for many inoccent people, Jaime's Cersei love affair being one of the most notable examples) for them to not give in to desire. So sure in many circumstances putting your desire above pragmatical concerns will prove self destructive for you, and for others due to the chaotic result of your actions.

[Kyoshi]

Hmm, I doubt his erstwhile fellow captains, now sans heads, think he "is what he says he is", ie their brother-in-arms.

Poor Daario, He's never going to live that one down, is he?

He is Aegon's mother obviously. ;)

As far as his honesty goes, he definitely gives that vibe. He straight up tells Dany about his bad thought and deeds. I can only think of one lie, which is more of a boast. the been with 100 / 1000 women line but still, more of a boast than a lie. Like Tormund as his member... out of here before the Tormund's Members show up to tell me I'm wrong about that. :leaving:

I also think he's an honest guy. Sure he's kind of an ass but he doesn't hide it. That has to count for something. I kind of believe that brag in a way...he managed to seduce Daenerys...that's all I'm saying...

[Wmarshal]

He sponges of Dany to push her to squeeze a way to sell slaves.

[Mikkel]

Poor Daario, He's never going to live that one down, is he?

Why should he, though? It's not stealing a piece of bread 'cos he's starving, it's cold-blooded, opportunistic murder of people who expect him to have their backs.

I also think he's an honest guy. Sure he's kind of an ass but he doesn't hide it. That has to count for something. I kind of believe that brag in a way...he managed to seduce Daenerys...that's all I'm saying...

See, you can't say "I'm honest about being dishonest". Or "I'm honest but I murder my comrades-in-arms". It just doesn't make sense. I know there's some of that "lovable rogue, Captain Jack Sparrow" going on, but honestly Daario isn't him.