U.S. Politics: Goodbye, Majority Leader Cantor

[Commodore]

The chart confirms that, yes, inflation exists.

That's it.

Every other claim and statement you made is false, as if your attempts here and previous to imply that the existence of inflation is a terrible thing.

You're argument was, prices need to keep rising so people won't save their money and instead will buy stuff to grow the economy.

Some would find incentivizing current borrowing/spending over future savings to be a bad thing. That economies grow through increased production. That increased production requires capital investment, which requires savings. Spending doesn't grow the overall pie, it just moves pie around. Production grows the pie, by definition (you are producing something that didn't exist before that adds value).

Our economy (and the global economy) is built on debt, which cannot last forever. Everything we did before 2008 (easy money, assloads of debt) we are doing again on a much larger scale.

Also, we should all make a concerted effort to call out dismissive declarations in this thread. They serve no purpose other than to create a hostile environment for discussion.

[aceluby]

You have too rigid a view on the constitution. If can be amended, and has been amended ;-)

We were never talking about amending the constitution, we were talking about application of the constitution as it currently stands, of which you ignore most of what it says and instead base your opinions as if it didn't exist.

[aceluby]

You're argument was, prices need to keep rising so people won't save their money and instead will buy stuff to grow the economy.

Some would find incentivizing current borrowing/spending over future savings to be a bad thing. That economies grow through increased production. That increased production requires capital investment, which requires savings. Spending doesn't grow the overall pie, it just moves pie around. Production grows the pie, by definition (you are producing something that didn't exist before that adds value).

Our economy (and the global economy) is built on debt, which cannot last forever. Everything we did before 2008 (easy money, assloads of debt) we are doing again on a much larger scale.

Also, we should all make a concerted effort to call out dismissive declarations in this thread. They serve no purpose other than to create a hostile environment for discussion.

Increased production doesn't happen because the owners of said companies want to produce out of the goodness of their heart. It requires demand for the product. In order for demand to exist people need money to purchase. The problem right now isn't that there isn't enough capital to invest, it's that there's not enough demand to require more production. Getting people to save vs spend, in this economic climate, will shrink the economy and will cause job losses.

[The Iceman of the North]

The rate of increase could be stable, but that just means our dollars (and savings in dollars) are losing value at a stable rate.

Of course, but why would you be stupid enough to only have savings in currency in the first place?

[TrackerNeil]

Do you have a minute to talk about your savior, Bitcoin? It's controlled and regulated by math.

What the hell are you talking about?

[TrackerNeil]

Well not just me but a shitload of people welcome that given that law enforcement did precisely that to capture the boston marathon terrorists .... And the people cheered but there were certainly whinings from a few idealrogues.

Lots of people cheered the invasion of Iraq and look where that got us.

[The Notorious]

We were never talking about amending the constitution, we were talking about application of the constitution as it currently stands, of which you ignore most of what it says and instead base your opinions as if it didn't exist.

Listen, wasn't it you who brought up the scenario of banning and confiscation of guns? I apologize for getting excited about that possibility lol.

So we are back to the NSA? OK yes I get it you think it OMG SO UNCONSTITUTIONAL OMG! you remind me of those right wing idiots who swore up and down that's the ACA mandate was OMG SO UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!

Well SCOTUS begs to differ, so let's wait and see what SCOTUS has to say yah? ;-)

[The Notorious]

Lots of people cheered the invasion of Iraq and look where that got us.

And lots of people cheered passage of the civil rights act too and look where that got us ..... so shall we keep going? :-)

[1918me]

And lots of people cheered passage of the civil rights act too and look where that got us ..... so shall we keep going? :-)

Kinda demonstrates how irrelevant people cheering is, no?

[Jaxom 1974]

The fourth amendment is important. But my problem as average Joe American is that I just don't care. It isn't that I want the NSA looking at my stuff, I just think they're going to be really bored if they do. If they do, I personally have nothing interesting there, at least I certainly don't think so, so I'll never know. Is it right? Plenty of people say it isn't, but again, I'm not sure I care.

And there's something to be said there about no such thing as a victimless crime, I know...

[karaddin]

Fez - thanks for the explanation, the speech logic remains impenetrable to me, it just doesn't make sense and I don't think there is a way that I'll get it.

The NSA stuff I just don't see the need or sufficient benefit to outweigh the privacy violation. Maybe if a case was ever made for it that amounted to more than a Jedi wave saying "this information helps us".

[TrackerNeil]

And lots of people cheered passage of the civil rights act too and look where that got us ..... so shall we keep going? :-)

As I recall, when signing the bill into law, LBJ (correctly) predicted, "We just lost the South for a generation." So I'd argue that there was not as much cheering as one might think.

In any case, it was you who seemed to argue that a popular policy is a good one. I take no such stance. A policy is good if it's good, period.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Listen, wasn't it you who brought up the scenario of banning and confiscation of guns? I apologize for getting excited about that possibility lol.

So we are back to the NSA? OK yes I get it you think it OMG SO UNCONSTITUTIONAL OMG! you remind me of those right wing idiots who swore up and down that's the ACA mandate was OMG SO UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!

Well SCOTUS begs to differ, so let's wait and see what SCOTUS has to say yah? ;-)

Not everyone wants to relinquish their critical thinking skills to the nine holy elders of the Supreme Court.

[Inigima]

The fourth amendment is important. But my problem as average Joe American is that I just don't care. It isn't that I want the NSA looking at my stuff, I just think they're going to be really bored if they do. If they do, I personally have nothing interesting there, at least I certainly don't think so, so I'll never know. Is it right? Plenty of people say it isn't, but again, I'm not sure I care.

And there's something to be said there about no such thing as a victimless crime, I know...

I disagree, I don't think the "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" argument has any merit. I don't think that's a pleasant way to go through life.

BUT the big problem even if you feel that way is that it becomes a political weapon. Recall the civil rights era and the intelligence agency abuses thereof. Remember COINTELPRO. These powers will inevitably be abused, if not by this guy then by another soon. It's human nature.

[TrueMetis]

Having nothing to hide depends entirely on what the person going through your private considers wrong. You might not think your time on an atheist forum is a big deal, the guy at the NSA might consider you a nutjob dangerous to the christian ideals the US was founded on.

[The Notorious]

In any case, it was you who seemed to argue that a popular policy is a good one. I take no such stance. A policy is good if it's good, period.

I agree. The ability to conduct surveillance is a good policy despite how unpopular it is around this forum.

[The Notorious]

Not everyone wants to relinquish their critical thinking skills to the nine holy elders of the Supreme Court.

Thankfully online self-proclaim experts at constitutional laws don't get to decide that. I just find the repetitive declaration laughable.

[TrackerNeil]

I agree. The ability to conduct surveillance is a good policy despite how unpopular it is around this forum.

I don't recall anyone here arguing that the government should be forbidden from conducting any and all surveillance. It's how and when and why that matter, which is what we call "policy."

[The Notorious]

The fourth amendment is important. But my problem as average Joe American is that I just don't care. It isn't that I want the NSA looking at my stuff, I just think they're going to be really bored if they do. If they do, I personally have nothing interesting there, at least I certainly don't think so, so I'll never know. Is it right? Plenty of people say it isn't, but again, I'm not sure I care.

And there's something to be said there about no such thing as a victimless crime, I know...

I think you perfectly capture the sentiment of a large swath of the population. Nobody i know in real life really give a shit about this and are more offended at facebook violation of their personal data to make money.

[The Notorious]

In brief:

Privacy

Conservatives (although not Libertarians): Security comes first

Me: I just don't care about Privacy, so whatevs

Anyway, I think that sums it up.

Thanks for sharing. I think some liberals are also quite hang up on this.