Season 5 Casting v.3 [spoilers included]

[Hippocras]

Alysanne Mormont was my first thought

I might agree if it weren't for her eyes. Those extremely striking eyes and regal look make me think we might actually get Val.

[Arkash]

Well, she could easily pass off as Jorah's cousin, as well, imo.

[Annara Snow]

What I mean is that they haven't had any book material to adapt for Theon in S3 and 4. So it would have been the perfect opportunity to introduce Jeyne Poole as a fellow prisoner of Theon, and set up the marriage plot. As it is if the plot is included in S5 it's going to come completely out of nowhere. The fact that there hasn't been so much as an ounce of set up for the plot is worrisome. But without Jeyne the plot simply cannot exist as it does in the books.

Why would they introduce her as a fellow prisoner in season 3? She wasn't a fellow prisoner in the books. Did the story work for you in the books? If it did, why wouldn't it work in the show? Jeyne Poole was a very minor character that most people didn't particularly care about or think about before ADWD, and only appeared in one little scene in the entirety of books 2-3-4. As it is, the plot in the books also came more or less "out of nowhere". So did the Tyrion/Sansa marriage, for that matter, or a whole bunch of other things. And on the show, plot twists tend to "come out of nowhere" even more so. They don't set up many things.

In fact, introducing Jeyne as a prisoner in season 3 would make little sense and screw up the storyline considerably, since 1) what reason would Ramsey have to keep her alive before she was meant to be fake Arya? He kills all the 'insignificant' lowborn girls he tortures and rapes. She's not Reek/Theon. 2) The whole point of Jeyne in Theon's story is that she is what turns it around for him; he's suffered incredibly and been completely dehumanized; but when she becomes Ramsey's victim, Theon first tries to tell her to go along with everything to survive - he's a veteran in terms of Ramsey-victims at this point, while she's a newbie; but then he finally gets motivated to get out of Ramsey's hold out of a desire to help someone else, an innocent who's suffering a similar way he does. This can't work if she has been there all along.

And that's just without taking into consideration the fact that the show not only normally does NOT cast new characters before the season when they are to become important, but delays new castings whenever it's in any way possible (Jojen and Meera, Edmure and Blackfish), sometimes even when it hurts the storytelling and requires major rewrites (Ramsey).

I dont think they will introduce the farya plot, especially since D&D already think the viewers are stupid by renaming characters since they sound similar, even though see is obviously an imposter. However they could still introduce her, but I doubt they will. They will most likely just make Stannis and the North to go straight for WF to overthrow the Boltons. And perhaps they make Theon visit Godswood where Bran communicates with him and reminds him who he is, and he escapes that way from WF

That's beyond stupid and would completely ruin Theon's storyline, which was fantastic and incredibly emotional and the best part of ADWD. And he's D&D's favorite character, FFS. I don't have a great opinion of them as writers, but come on, they can't be such horrible hacks. There is every reason in the world to keep fArya storyline and absolutely no good reason to cut it.

[Hippocras]

I think fArya will be in. But I also think it will be merged with the Alys Karstark thread.

[Annara Snow]

I agree with Lady Fevre Dream. I don't think the article http://www.huffingto...kusaolp00000592 is about LSH being totally cut from the story. She still may be in the story one way or the other.

Fairley has also said in other interviews that she has never read the books and has no idea about whats going to happen. I think any of her answers to the interviewer were just ignorant actor knee jerk answers "whatever's best for the show, the show runners are brilliant, (insert good P.R. answer here), blah blah blah". Unless casting for S5 is done and shes not in the mix, LSH may come back in one way or another.

What? When did she say that? She said that she did read her chapters in the books. Now, LS is not in Cat's chapters, obviously, but I very much doubt that she "has no idea" what is going on in the books beyond the RW.

[Hippocras]

we had successfully moved on from LS....

[Cas Stark]

The problem, logically, with fake Arya, is that so many people in the show would easily be able to prove she was a fake....having seen the real Arya Stark...Brienne has seen her, Pod has seen her, every soldier at the Vale gate has seen her, Mel, who is at the Wall now, has seen her...

So, unlike the books where no one except a band of outlaws has seen the real Arya Stark for years and years....in the show, multiple people, high born people, people in power, have seen the real Arya and could easily prove fake Arya was fake.

Given how the show discards this level of plot logic, I doubt this would matter...but...fake Arya is a different situation now that real Arya has been identified by so many characters in the show.

[protar]

Why would they introduce her as a fellow prisoner in season 3? She wasn't a fellow prisoner in the books. Did the story work for you in the books? If it did, why wouldn't it work in the show? Jeyne Poole was a very minor character that most people didn't particularly care about or think about before ADWD, and only appeared in one little scene in the entirety of books 2-3-4. As it is, the plot in the books also came more or less "out of nowhere". So did the Tyrion/Sansa marriage, for that matter, or a whole bunch of other things. And on the show, plot twists tend to "come out of nowhere" even more so. They don't set up many things.

In fact, introducing Jeyne as a prisoner in season 3 would make little sense and screw up the storyline considerably, since 1) what reason would Ramsey have to keep her alive before she was meant to be fake Arya? He kills all the 'insignificant' lowborn girls he tortures and rapes. She's not Reek/Theon. 2) The whole point of Jeyne in Theon's story is that she is what turns it around for him; he's suffered incredibly and been completely dehumanized; but when she becomes Ramsey's victim, Theon first tries to tell her to go along with everything to survive - he's a veteran in terms of Ramsey-victims at this point, while she's a newbie; but then he finally gets motivated to get out of Ramsey's hold out of a desire to help someone else, an innocent who's suffering a similar way he does. This can't work if she has been there all along.

And that's just without taking into consideration the fact that the show not only normally does NOT cast new characters before the season when they are to become important, but delays new castings whenever it's in any way possible (Jojen and Meera, Edmure and Blackfish), sometimes even when it hurts the storytelling and requires major rewrites (Ramsey).

The story worked for me in the books because Jeyne had been set up beforehand and quite a lot of attention was paid to her in AGOT. Plus in SOS the marriage plot is set up before it happens, so it doesn't come out of nowhere. It's possible for them to just introduce some random girl to masquerade as Arya at the start of S5, but I feel it would be cheap and out of nowhere. Now you're right that that's often how things go in the show and you're also right that they tend not to introduce characters until necessary (though there are exceptions, namely Margaery). However in Theon's case they were specifically looking for material for him in S3 and 4. So if they are including the Farya plot in S5, it seems odd that they wouldn't use the set up for that pot to give Theon stuff to do this season.

[Hippocras]

The problem, logically, with fake Arya, is that so many people in the show would easily be able to prove she was a fake....having seen the real Arya Stark...Brienne has seen her, Pod has seen her, every soldier at the Vale gate has seen her, Mel, who is at the Wall now, has seen her...

So, unlike the books where no one except a band of outlaws has seen the real Arya Stark for years and years....in the show, multiple people, high born people, people in power, have seen the real Arya and could easily prove fake Arya was fake.

Given how the show discards this level of plot logic, I doubt this would matter...but...fake Arya is a different situation now that real Arya has been identified by so many characters in the show.

I don't see how any of that matters because Mel will not see fArya anyway until the next book, so would not know she was fake until she got to the Wall. And none of the others listed are in the Northern storyline at Winterfell.

Also, I don't remember, when Mel in the show saw Arya, did they already know who she was?

[protar]

The problem, logically, with fake Arya, is that so many people in the show would easily be able to prove she was a fake....having seen the real Arya Stark...Brienne has seen her, Pod has seen her, every soldier at the Vale gate has seen her, Mel, who is at the Wall now, has seen her...

So, unlike the books where no one except a band of outlaws has seen the real Arya Stark for years and years....in the show, multiple people, high born people, people in power, have seen the real Arya and could easily prove fake Arya was fake.

Given how the show discards this level of plot logic, I doubt this would matter...but...fake Arya is a different situation now that real Arya has been identified by so many characters in the show.

None of those people are at Winterfell.

[tyrell19]

Why would Roose Bolton be aware of how many people knew Arya was alive. In fact that would help him claim Farya was real. Westeros is so big Donnel Waynwood isn't going to go North and denounce her as a fraud.

[Janicia]

^ Yeah !

Speaking of the Winterfell storyline in s5, it wouldnt require that much of a screentime and new cast members to pull it off properly :

- A "fake Arya" equivalent.

- Wyman Manderly.

- One or two other Northern Lords.

- A spearwife to accompany Mance.

And those last ones would be relatively minor roles to cast.

5 episodes would be enough to pull the entire Winterfell arc next season, imo.

If any prisoners were captured during the red wedding beyond Edmure, the show hasn't mentioned them yet. The timidity of the northern lords won't make any sense without hostages. Arya would be a hostage that they care about, but they probably know she's fake, and the reason they pretend she's real in the books is that the Freys have hostages. If Sandor can recognize Arya from half a glance in a dim room when he's not expecting to see her, at least one of the northern lords had better be able to notice she's not the right girl, especially since no girl-of-the-right-age-who-grew-up-in-Winterfell has been established on the show.

So a better route for the show might be: Bolton demands that Manderly/Umber marries his daughter / granddaughter to Ramsay. Now the Boltons have a hostage that keeps Manderly/Umber cautious. And we get Alys or Wylla on screen, which would be neat. Theon rescues her. They flee, possibly to the Wall, which is how Jon gets confusing news about what's going on at Winterfell, and then you have a northern girl at the Wall to marry a wildling, if that ends up being important.

I think Mance will spend most of next season north of the Wall rounding up wildlings. I don't see him infiltrating Winterfell even if there is a fArya. Maybe Jon sends Varamyr to check in on WInterfell? It isn't clear what purpose Varamyr might have in the show. Could be a bit part.

[Cas Stark]

None of those people are at Winterfell.

Mel is at the Wall and has met the real Arya in the show.

[tyrell19]

Was she ever told she was Arya?

[Colonel Green]

Mel is at the Wall and has met the real Arya in the show.

Roose doesn't know that, and Mel doesn't go to Winterfell, so why would that matter?

It's also unclear whether Mel knew it was Arya, specifically. But that's neither here nor there.

[Hippocras]

Mel is at the Wall and has met the real Arya in the show.

As I said, in the books fArya has not arrived at the Wall yet and has not been seen by Mel. So that doesn't matter.

[Annara Snow]

Am I the only one that does not at all understand the Jaqen hype? Same with Syrio Forell. Sure they were cool characters and all, but they weren't all that crazy IMHO.

I don't get the Syrio obsession, but I do find Jaqen interesting... especially in the show, Tom Wlaschiha was fantastic.

[jentario]

The problem, logically, with fake Arya, is that so many people in the show would easily be able to prove she was a fake....having seen the real Arya Stark...Brienne has seen her, Pod has seen her, every soldier at the Vale gate has seen her, Mel, who is at the Wall now, has seen her...

So, unlike the books where no one except a band of outlaws has seen the real Arya Stark for years and years....in the show, multiple people, high born people, people in power, have seen the real Arya and could easily prove fake Arya was fake.

Given how the show discards this level of plot logic, I doubt this would matter...but...fake Arya is a different situation now that real Arya has been identified by so many characters in the show.

BS. The Vale knights stay in the Vale, Brienne stays in the Vale/Riverlands with Pod, Mel never leaves the Wall... The only people that need to not recognize her are the Northern lords, and we haven't seen any of them in the show yet. The Boltons can say that they found Arya as she was running back home or something. This isn't an issue.

If they're cutting fake Arya (and no, I don't think it'll be Jeyne Poole in the show) this won't be the reason. I'll personally remain optimistic since, as Annara said, there'd be absolutely no reason to cut her (and D&D liking Theon means they won't cut his crowning moment and throw away his character development). It would take literally a second to say "Here's a little girl, she's Arya Stark, Ramsay will marry her." and can be done within the first time we see the Boltons in season 5 (and Alex Graves already said that they will be very important next season).

[protar]

Mel is at the Wall and has met the real Arya in the show.

The Wall isn't Winterfell. She could be in the next castle over from Winterfell and it wouldn't matter providing she didn't actually go to Winterfell and see Fake Arya.

[Newstar]

Fake Arya is super easy to introduce. Theon is introduced to "Arya" and says nothing. When they're alone, Theon says "You're not Arya, I know you, you're Jeyne Poole from Winterfell, blah blah blah." Jeyne denies it at first and then cracks and tells the story of how she wound up being forced to pose as Arya. Boom.