Small questions v. 10084

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Is there anyone here who is good with making/creating wikipedia-templates, by any chance? :)

[Russellstiltskin]

The RPGs contain some new info, a bit of which is already out of date again (for example, the War of the Ninepenny Kings was stated to have occured during Aegon V's reign in the RPGs, but the updated info we've received through the official app has stated that the was occured during the reign of Jaehaerys II).

About characters there isn't much new info. About some stuff, there's a bit more new info, like the maesters and the Citadel.

Really nice to know, thanks a lot :)

[Lost Melnibonean]

Blood and fire, thought Dany. The words of House Targaryen.

Daenerys II, Storm

Now wait a minute... Aren't the words of House Targaryen Fire and blood?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Daenerys II, Storm

Now wait a minute... Aren't the words of House Targaryen Fire and blood?

Yep. Same words, different order..

So basically, both you and Dany are correct :)

[rmholt]

K, but then what of the wounded? Ravens sent from the field?

Hedge Medics

[rmholt]

Osha took the sword meant for Eddard's tomb, and Meera took Rickard's while Bran took Brandon's. Do we know whose sword Hodor took? Was it just four swords or did Jojen and/or Rickon take one?

It's a continuity error. Hodor left the crypt without a sword but had one from the crypt in the next book

[rmholt]

Good point. Would this have been to care for the sickly young Robert?

Yes. Other households hanging out there brought Maesters too - one Tyriom asked for once he woke up from Blackwater battle.

[rmholt]

A maester serves a seat, not a house, nor does he change houses. So that Luwin started out as the maester of Riverrun and then just moved to Winterfell seems highly unlikely.

Also, we don't know whether Walys left with Rickard, IIRC.

The harvest feast was in Winterfell, wasn't it?

Yes. Luwin even had a big chair made for him. There was a description of the good he brought

Wymans ability to travel varies.

[Captain Ratchet]

Is forel a bastard name in braavos? Or is it a house or something

[jon rhaegar stark]

I Know Jon is 998th LC but does anyone know who was the first to become LC

and what number Bloodraven become LC

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I Know Jon is 998th LC but does anyone know who was the first to become LC

and what number Bloodraven become LC

None of that is known, I'm afraid.

[jon rhaegar stark]

None of that is known, I'm afraid.

i afraid so ..but thanks i thought someone must have known

[LordStoneheart]

is there any "go-to" thread with SSMs anyone could recommend about the "best warrior in westeros, history til now?" I'm not all that interested in warriors and knights, but a friend would like to know the stats.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Is forel a bastard name in braavos? Or is it a house or something

We were not told. So far there is Syrio Forel from ADwD who lives on in Arya's memory through the next 4 books.

eta spoiler tags

Then there is Phario Forel

in the TWoW sample chapter "Mercy". But the nature of the name is unknown.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

Can't help with the app, but which wiki entries are you talking about? Could you link them?

Here you go.

The Hammer of the Waters entry claims it was used at the Neck in the conflict against the First Men.

Hammer of the Waters

The Moat Cailin entry supports the Andal Invasion version

Moat Cailin

For the record, (as my previous quote list showed), whatever the CotF did to break the Arm of Dorne is not called the Hammer of the Waters by Maester Luwin, but it sure sounds like it. The one named use of the HotW is said to have been at the Neck, invoked from the Children's Tower at Moat Cailin, against unspecified opponents. One argument in favor of the Andal Invasion version would be that, in order to actually know what the CotF called their magic, the First Men must have been their allies at the time. The CotF probably didn't bother to inform the First Men what the exact name of their "spell" was when they broke the Arm, since they were fighting the First Men at the time.

What actually prompted me to ask this question was that Werthead has the Hammer being used on the Neck during the First Men conflict in his Atlas project.

[Roddy Darwin]

The RPGs contain some new info, a bit of which is already out of date again (for example, the War of the Ninepenny Kings was stated to have occured during Aegon V's reign in the RPGs, but the updated info we've received through the official app has stated that the was occured during the reign of Jaehaerys II).

About characters there isn't much new info. About some stuff, there's a bit more new info, like the maesters and the Citadel.

Few things I noted down (I actually wanted to PM you these but totally forgot, RT D:)

• Norvos is actually ruled by the bearded priests

• the Seastone Chair seems to predate humans! "It is said that the Seastone Chair was found on the shore of Old Wyk when the First Men first landed on the Iron Islands thousands of years ago."

• 9PK: they managed to conquer Tyrosh and Alequo Adarys actually held it for 6 years after the end of Band of Nine!

• House Stark foundation, Night's Watch foundation, Bran the Builder: "Legends suggest that the founding of the Stark line was related to the Long Night and the establishment of the Night’s Watch." And "The Sworn Brotherhood of the Night’s Watch was originally established in connection with the Long Night." And "Legends say that Brandon the Builder erected the Wall, with the assistance of the First Men and the legendary giants. This event is believed to have been during the time of the Long Night and the founding of the Night’s Watch"

• Winterfell's secret passages: "Woven into this network of buildings are tunnels and back passageways that have become secret more through abandonment than through design. There are few people familiar with these back roads through the keep, though every generation of Stark children seems to provide at least one would-be heir to its secrets." So, Benjen or Lyanna?

• • "There have been a few cases of black brothers being released from their vows, but such instances are rare and typically involve intervention on a very high level." Likely a mistake as book canon contradicts that, but eh.

• "some of the Free Folk worship the Others as deities. To placate these sinister gods, wildlings will leave live animals or even children for the Others to find."

• "Considered strange by their fellow ironborn, the Farwynds populate the western shore of Great Wyk and the many islets, such as the Lonely Light, which lies eight days sail to the northwest of Great Wyk. The Farwynds of the Lonely Light are said to be stranger than the rest, rumoured to be skinchangers capable of taking the forms of sea lions, walruses, and even spotted whales, also called the wolves of the sea."

• "Pentos does not keep slaves — at least not officially. This was forced on the city due to a treaty with Braavos, agreed to 100 years before."

• "When a khaleesi becomes pregnant, she is taken to Vaes Dothrak so that the dosh khaleen can determine the future of the child in her womb. They watch as she eats the heart of a wild stallion presented to her by her khal. She must consume the heart without choking or retching, lest the child be stillborn, weak, deformed, or female."

So Dany's case was not exceptional.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Here you go.

The Hammer of the Waters entry claims it was used at the Neck in the conflict against the First Men.

Hammer of the Waters

The Moat Cailin entry supports the Andal Invasion version

Moat Cailin

For the record, (as my previous quote list showed), whatever the CotF did to break the Arm of Dorne is not called the Hammer of the Waters by Maester Luwin, but it sure sounds like it. The one named use of the HotW is said to have been at the Neck, invoked from the Children's Tower at Moat Cailin, against unspecified opponents. One argument in favor of the Andal Invasion version would be that, in order to actually know what the CotF called their magic, the First Men must have been their allies at the time. The CotF probably didn't bother to inform the First Men what the exact name of their "spell" was when they broke the Arm, since they were fighting the First Men at the time.

What actually prompted me to ask this question was that Werthead has the Hammer being used on the Neck during the First Men conflict in his Atlas project.

They used the same magic twice, from the same spot. The first time either magic was stronger in the world or there were simply more cotf around, and on that occasion they broke the arm of Dorne before they made their peace with the first men. Then when the Andals were beating up on the first men who the cotf had a peace with, and were cutting down more weirwoods they got together with the first men at Moat Cailin and did the hammer again. This time either because magic was fading or because there weren't enough cotf it did not work as well and we got the swampy neck, which worked well enough in the end. Other people have posted the same stuff.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

They used the same magic twice, from the same spot. The first time either magic was stronger in the world or there were simply more cotf around, and on that occasion they broke the arm of Dorne before they made their peace with the first men. Then when the Andals were beating up on the first men who the cotf had a peace with, and were cutting down more weirwoods they got together with the first men at Moat Cailin and did the hammer again. This time either because magic was fading or because there weren't enough cotf it did not work as well and we got the swampy neck, which worked well enough in the end. Other people have posted the same stuff.

There is nothing to support the claim that the breaking of the Arm of Dorne was orchestrated from Moat Cailin, and it would seem incredibly unlikely that it was. MC was a stronghold of the First Men, and was built by them (The CotF didn't build with stone.) How could the CotF get inside MC to use magic against the First Men? In addition, Moat Cailin may not have even existed when the Arm was broken; in fact it probably didn't. The Breaking of the Arm only makes sense if it took place fairly early in the CotF/FM conflict. In order to build Moat Cailin, the FM first would have had to established control of the area. Building the fortress itself likely took decades. (Twenty towers and curtain walls the height of Winterfell's.) That would have had to happen much later.

I agree about the relative strengths of CotF in the two magics. It's important, however, not to jump to conclusions. The data is limited, and other posters reach different conclusions.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Few things I noted down (I actually wanted to PM you these but totally forgot, RT D:)

• Norvos is actually ruled by the bearded priests

• the Seastone Chair seems to predate humans! "It is said that the Seastone Chair was found on the shore of Old Wyk when the First Men first landed on the Iron Islands thousands of years ago."

• 9PK: they managed to conquer Tyrosh and Alequo Adarys actually held it for 6 years after the end of Band of Nine!

• House Stark foundation, Night's Watch foundation, Bran the Builder: "Legends suggest that the founding of the Stark line was related to the Long Night and the establishment of the Night’s Watch." And "The Sworn Brotherhood of the Night’s Watch was originally established in connection with the Long Night." And "Legends say that Brandon the Builder erected the Wall, with the assistance of the First Men and the legendary giants. This event is believed to have been during the time of the Long Night and the founding of the Night’s Watch"

• Winterfell's secret passages: "Woven into this network of buildings are tunnels and back passageways that have become secret more through abandonment than through design. There are few people familiar with these back roads through the keep, though every generation of Stark children seems to provide at least one would-be heir to its secrets." So, Benjen or Lyanna?

• • "There have been a few cases of black brothers being released from their vows, but such instances are rare and typically involve intervention on a very high level." Likely a mistake as book canon contradicts that, but eh.

• "some of the Free Folk worship the Others as deities. To placate these sinister gods, wildlings will leave live animals or even children for the Others to find."

• "Considered strange by their fellow ironborn, the Farwynds populate the western shore of Great Wyk and the many islets, such as the Lonely Light, which lies eight days sail to the northwest of Great Wyk. The Farwynds of the Lonely Light are said to be stranger than the rest, rumoured to be skinchangers capable of taking the forms of sea lions, walruses, and even spotted whales, also called the wolves of the sea."

• "Pentos does not keep slaves — at least not officially. This was forced on the city due to a treaty with Braavos, agreed to 100 years before."

• "When a khaleesi becomes pregnant, she is taken to Vaes Dothrak so that the dosh khaleen can determine the future of the child in her womb. They watch as she eats the heart of a wild stallion presented to her by her khal. She must consume the heart without choking or retching, lest the child be stillborn, weak, deformed, or female."

So Dany's case was not exceptional.

Thanks! :D

[aryagonnakill#2]

There is nothing to support the claim that the breaking of the Arm of Dorne was orchestrated from Moat Cailin, and it would seem incredibly unlikely that it was. MC was a stronghold of the First Men, and was built by them (The CotF didn't build with stone.) How could the CotF get inside MC to use magic against the First Men? In addition, Moat Cailin may not have even existed when the Arm was broken; in fact it probably didn't. The Breaking of the Arm only makes sense if it took place fairly early in the CotF/FM conflict. In order to build Moat Cailin, the FM first would have had to established control of the area. Building the fortress itself likely took decades. (Twenty towers and curtain walls the height of Winterfell's.) That would have had to happen much later.

I agree about the relative strengths of CotF in the two magics. It's important, however, not to jump to conclusions. The data is limited, and other posters reach different conclusions.

I was referring to Moat Cailins physical location, not the fortress.

Edit: The fortress would have been built between the 2 uses of magic and I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect that the first men would have built a fortress on the spot the children were using to perform spells after they took it from them.