US Politics: Corporations are made out of people

[Ramsay Gimp]

Ramsay,

I'd be more sympathetic if Hobby Lobby weren't a multi-million dollar corp organized like a family bakery.

But that's beside the point. Do fundamental rights fly out the window because of commercial success?

I don't share any of Hobby Lobby's owners' religious views, and I've never been to their store.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

But that's beside the point. Do fundamental rights fly out the window because of commercial success?

I don't share any of Hobby Lobby's owners' religious views, and I've never been to their store.

So what about the rights of the employee? It's a two way system, or at least should be, but the workers always lose.

[Ramsay Gimp]

So what about the rights of the employee? It's a two way system, or at least should be, but the workers always lose.

They have the right to quit, or try negotiating for a new contract. There is no right to work at Hobby Lobby, nor is there a right to employer-provided contraception

[Inigima]

I don't think it's reasonable in this day and age to expect employees to shoulder the burden, with every new job, of investigating the religious beliefs of the owners of the company to decide whether or not they comport with their own. That way lies a patchwork madness of coverage.

[Shryke]

Oh Ramsay Gimp, I knew I could count on you to take libertarian principles to their logical conclusion here and support the ability of employers to impose their religious beliefs on others.

Truly, libertarianism is all about freedom.

[K-26dp]

They have the right to quit, or try negotiating for a new contract. There is no right to work at Hobby Lobby, nor is there a right to employer-provided contraception

You mean collective barginning? That would be nice.

Just for the record, you are against allowing a government to mandate that large corps provide a certain minimum level of healthcare to their employees as a cost of doing business, but you are OK with those same corporations making specific health care decisions for their employees?

[OnionAhaiReborn]

From whining about John Oliver taking the side of the "powerful" to the usual libertarian nonsense about workers having the "right to quit" if they don't want the huge corporation they work for to have the power to police their sexual lives within the span of a few posts. Can't make this stuff up.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Oh Ramsay Gimp, I knew I could count on you to take libertarian principles to their logical conclusion here and support the ability of the employers you to impose their religious beliefs on others.

Truly, libertarianism is all about freedom.

Oh Shryke, I knew I could count on you to forget or distort the meaning of words like "impose"

Truly, progressivism is all about newspeak (and constantly expanding state power, of course)

You mean collective barginning? That would be nice.

Just for the record, you are against allowing a government to mandate that large corps provide a certain minimum level of healthcare to their employees as a cost of doing business, but you are OK with those same corporations making specific health care decisions for their employees?

What decisions? The employees can still make whatever healthcare decisions they want. Or is Hobby Lobby raiding their homes in search of contraceptives?

[Inigima]

Modern life requires some continuity of care. I don't want a future where I can't depend on my medical care because I accepted a job offer from the wrong company.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

They have the right to quit, or try negotiating for a new contract. There is no right to work at Hobby Lobby, nor is there a right to employer-provided contraception

I know many single parents who would disagree.

Plus, I find it funny that these "right-to-life" nut jobs want to deny medical care to women who use it to improve their quality of life, not for contraception purposes.

And again, it's hilarious and utter hypocrisy that these companies fight women's right for provider mandated coverage of contraception and rarely say a word about them being forced to cover ED pills for men. Because, ya know, equality! Merica Rules, just like the O'Doyles!

[Shryke]

Oh Shryke, I knew I could count on you to forget or distort the definition of words like "impose"

Truly, progressivism is all about newspeak (and constantly expanding state power, of course)

Nope. Sorry you silly ignorant man, but this is exactly the definition of impose. They are forcing their employees to have health care that conforms not to the employees own needs or beliefs, but to the employers beliefs.

Hell, it's not even cost saving since the company is paying MORE to impose their religious beliefs on others.

But please, do continue to demonstrate how american "libertarianism" is just another strain of Bircher-style republicanism, rebranded for the gullible.

[TrueMetis]

But that's beside the point. Do fundamental rights fly out the window because of commercial success?

I don't share any of Hobby Lobby's owners' religious views, and I've never been to their store.

What fundamental right? The fundamental right of employers to dictate how their employees spend their money? Remember Employer-sponsored health insurance is part of the employees compensation package, it their money not the employers.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Modern life requires some continuity of care. I don't want a future where I can't depend on my medical care because I accepted a job offer from the wrong company.

but that's more of an argument for disentangling health coverage from employers

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Ramsay,

But that's beside the point. Do fundamental rights fly out the window because of commercial success?

I don't share any of Hobby Lobby's owners' religious views, and I've never been to their store.

Hobby Lobby corporation is not the same thing as its shareholders. That's the whole point of "incorporation". It creates an enity that is not the shareholders and managers that shields the shareholders from direct liability for corporate actions. However, if the shareholders use the corporation as an "alter ego" courts may allow the corporate veil to be pierced.

Hobby Lobby's shareholders, by forcing Hobby Lobby corporation to assert their personal religious beliefs with no business related purpose for their actions, may open themselves up to personal liability for Hobby Lobby's corporate actions.

[Galactus]

but that's more of an argument for disentangling health coverage from employers

Agreed, but one makes do with what one has.

[lokisnow]

They have the right to quit, or try negotiating for a new contract. There is no right to work at Hobby Lobby, nor is there a right to employer-provided contraception

Hobby Lobby provided all the contraceptions they claim to have religious problems with until the passage of the Afordable Care Act. They also invest in the companies that make all the contraceptives they claim to have religious problems with and continue to invest in those satan-y drugs that are making them squeamish when their employees use those satanic anti-baby drugs.

Then they claim their company mystically and magically gained the superpowers of religion (the anthropomorphic golem-form of the company was on a pilgrimage to the holy land and was bitten by a radioactive scarab at Golgotteranth, thus imbuing Hobby Lobby with all the powers and privileges of religious beliefs) and in order to demonstrate the scope of their power they decided to harm the men and women working for them by taking away random forms of contraception they had provided those employees for years because of their newly discovered morals. Morals they only discovered after some democrats passed some legislation that made fox news unhappy, ergo Hobby Lobby was unhappy and in order to make themselves happy they decided to punish their employees and blame the legislation as the cause of the withdrawal of contraception previously provided.

Additionally, health insurance as they provide it is part of the employees compensation package. Logically Hobby Lobby now has the rights and privileges to monitor all monetary activity performed by their employees with the cash part of their compensation as closely as their newly discovered right to monitor the non-cash monetary activity performed by their employees when those employees were communicating their purchase desires to their doctors, pharmacists and or health insurance company.

Since Hobby Lobby can now monitor all the activity of their employees use of the compensation remitted to their employees they will know if the employee committs the egregious crime of engaging in an commercial transaction that runs afoul of the religious beliefs of Hobby Lobby. They can then cry religious freedom when someone buys porn on the internet and fire that employee for violating their religious freedom by doing something hobby lobby doesn't like with money hobby lobby paid said employee.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

If there is no business reason for denying contraception I really hope the next plaintiff's attorney to sue Hobby Lobby attempts to pierce Hobby Lobby's corporate veil.

[BloodRider]

They have the right to quit, or try negotiating for a new contract. There is no right to work at Hobby Lobby, nor is there a right to employer-provided contraception

And Hobby Lobby has the right to disincorporate if it objects to the laws of incorporation.

[BloodRider]

If there is no business reason for denying contraception I really hope the next plaintiff's attorney to sue Hobby Lobby attempts to pierce Hobby Lobby's corporate veil.

I fucking hope not. That's all I need is a fucked up precident like that. I incorporated my business for a reason. I don't want the blowback from that shitbomb.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

BR,

Don't use your corp as an alter ego the way Hobby Lobby has.