US Politics: trickle down economics and trickle up dysfunction

[DanteGabriel]

So, the 2008 and 2010 elections gave us a whole class of Republican governors, many of whom were seen as potential emerging stars who took their states often in a sharply right direction and pushed through a wish list of Republican policies, especially with regards to taxes. Lets see how that's working out:

Kansas governor Sam Brownback's tax cut has turned Kansas from having a surplus into a deficit, forcing it cut services after dropping 700 million in revenue in a single year, lagging behind on job growth.

Brownback currently has a 33% approval rating and is trailing his opponent in the polls.

Scott Walker in Wisconsin promised to bring 250,000 new jobs to Wisconsin by 2015, (which the more astute pointed out was the minimum number of new jobs expected to come about regardless of what was done politically, making it a worthless number) now it looks like he won't hit that number, growth in the state is significantly lower than it was before Walker took office, hiring has trailed behind both the national and regional average.

In Louisiana, Bobby Jindal's tax cuts have resulted in it choking off state revenue. In 2013 tax collection revenue was still 12.5% lower than it was in 2008, while the average for the other 49 states was 7.9% higher. This has led to incredibly sharp cuts in state funding for infrastructure, health care, and especially higher education. The state spending for colleges has dropped almost 37% between fiscal year 2009 and fiscal year 2013, (page 6) which has had to be made up by rapidly raising tuition costs by about 50%. Good luck to any poor kids trying to get a bachelor's degree and improve their lives, especially since congress likes slashing Federal Student Aid as well.

Texas frequently brags about low taxes and the low cost of starting a business, but it turns out that in Texas, taxes are only low on the very wealthy and big business. Also, Texas has extremely limited chance for upwards social mobility.

Gosh, it's as if concentrating wealth among elites who sit on it or store it offshore instead of channeling it to the middle and lower classes to spend and generate more domestic economic activity is something that weakens an economy! If only we'd had, oh, thirty years of federal tax policy to incubate that idea and see what happened...

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

Gosh, it's as if concentrating wealth among elites who sit on it or store it offshore instead of channeling it to the middle and lower classes to spend and generate more domestic economic activity is something that weakens an economy! If only we'd had, oh, thirty years of federal tax policy to incubate that idea and see what happened...

Lol. Run wise devil! They're on to you!

[Shryke]

This new thread is obviously Obama's fault.

Obama's america can't support threads longer then 20 pages.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

It's also Obama's fault my puppy just pissed on the floor. Thanks Obama!!!

[Paladin of Ice]

Gosh, it's as if concentrating wealth among elites who sit on it or store it offshore instead of channeling it to the middle and lower classes to spend and generate more domestic economic activity is something that weakens an economy! If only we'd had, oh, thirty years of federal tax policy to incubate that idea and see what happened...

And to add onto your comment, another story related to Walker and Wisconsin: 2 companies that donated big to Walker and accepted tax credits from Walker's policies that were supposed to build Wisconsin jobs promptly turned around and outsourced those jobs to foreign countries.

Link 1 Link 2

A few relevant quotes:

At least two companies that received financial awards from the Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation (WEDC) later outsourced jobs to foreign countries, with one of those companies receiving a second WEDC award after the fact.

A 27 News investigation has uncovered that both the Eaton Corporation and Plexus Corporation received millions of dollars in financial awards from WEDC, only to later lay off workers whose jobs were taken by employees at the companies' foreign facilities.

In 2011, WEDC awarded Eaton Corp. with up to $1 million in tax credits if the company met job creation and retention goals at its manufacturing facility in Menomonee Falls. WEDC officials say the company has received $190,000 in tax credits so far.

In April of 2013, Eaton laid off 163 employees at its Cooper Power Systems plant in Pewaukee and announced it was moving those jobs to Mexico. Less than a year later, WEDC awarded Eaton Corp. with up to $1.36 million in additional tax credits for a proposed $54 million expansion at that same Pewaukee plant. But on Wednesday, WEDC Spokesperson Mark Maley told 27 News Eaton Corp. "recently notified WEDC it will not seek any tax credits for this project."

Eaton Corp. is based in Dublin, Ireland, but has numerous offices and interests in the United Kingdom, United States, Indonesia, Singapore, France, Germany and Mexico.

WEDC awarded Plexus Corp. of Neenah with tax credits of up to $2 million in 2011 and up to $15 million in 2012. Maley says Plexus has received $4.7 million in tax credits to this point.

In July of 2012, Plexus announced it was laying off 116 workers from its Neenah facility. The U.S. Department of Labor has since ruled those employees, as well as all Plexus employees laid off since December of 2011, are eligible to receive federal Trade Adjustment Assistance (TAA) benefits. Those benefits are only available to employees who were laid off because their jobs were outsourced to foreign countries.

Plexus Corp. did not identify where it relocated those jobs to in 2012, but also has offices and interests in the United Kingdom, China, Germany, Romania, Malaysia and Thailand.

Members of the board of directors for two companies that outsourced Wisconsin jobs after accepting financial incentives from the Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation have donated close to $20,000 to Gov. Scott Walker's campaigns since 2005

...

On Thursday, the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign found the companies involved in the outsourcing made 85 percent of their state political donations to the campaign of Gov. Walker from 2011 to 2013.

Why is it that progressives are so doubtful about the right's ultra pro big business agenda, policies, the belief that corporations should be treated as people or money as speech again? :idea: It's so puzzling...

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Ormond,

Calvin Coolidge might well be surprised that a man of African descent was elected President in 2008. However, the implication from this comment that he would be displeased by that fact seems to be incorrect given what we know about his own racial attitudes, including a letter he wrote sharply disagreeing with someone who protested the fact that a black man had been nominated for Congress as a Republican in New York:

http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/calvin-coolidge-and-civil-rights-the-rest-of-the-story/

A relevant paragraph from Coolidge's letter:

That's a wonderful thing to read. :)

[TrackerNeil]

Gosh, it's as if concentrating wealth among elites who sit on it or store it offshore instead of channeling it to the middle and lower classes to spend and generate more domestic economic activity is something that weakens an economy! If only we'd had, oh, thirty years of federal tax policy to incubate that idea and see what happened...

I am totally crushing on this now.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Ormond,

That's a wonderful thing to read. :)

Credit where credit's due. Coolidge also signed the law that made Native Americans full US citizens.

[Lightysnake88]

Ingima:

The existence of the ACA itself debunks this in hilarious fashion. You are delusional.

So a vocal faction of the left weren't up in arms about the ACA? Factions in the left weren't cheering over 'teaching' the Blue Dogs in 2010?

The left, by all rights, should be winning a lot. Instead, the left has a serious issue with being its own worst enemy.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Ingima:

So a vocal faction of the left weren't up in arms about the ACA? Factions in the left weren't cheering over 'teaching' the Blue Dogs in 2010?

The left, by all rights, should be winning a lot. Instead, the left has a serious issue with being its own worst enemy.

No, the Left wasn't up in arms about the ACA. Many people regarded it as weak and inadequate, but that's a different thing from actually trying to block it - weak and inadequate it may be, but it was an improvement over what went before.

As for 2010, I don't recall cheering, just finger pointing.

[MerenthaClone]

Ingima:

So a vocal faction of the left weren't up in arms about the ACA? Factions in the left weren't cheering over 'teaching' the Blue Dogs in 2010?

The left, by all rights, should be winning a lot. Instead, the left has a serious issue with being its own worst enemy.

Your statement was that the Dems can't come together to push legislation through. The ACA, despite being pretty bad by any progressive standard, was pushed through, by the Democrats, and the far left wing of the party didn't vote against it because it wasn't enough. Seems to me that that's a fairly solid debunking of your point.

[The Marquis de Leech]

In fact, the ACA (despite Obama's best efforts) was passed without a single Republican vote. The Left could have killed it had they wanted (perhaps in revenge for Pelosi not letting single payer come to a vote), but oddly enough, they didn't.

[Lightysnake88]

I should rephrase: I'm not talking about the Democratic party. I'm talking about the Professional Left in the country. We had this group calling for the entire bill to be scrapped if it didn't have what they wanted.

The same people who spent 2 years attacking Obama and the Democrats for 2 years were the same openly rooting against Blue Dogs, and then acted utterly stunned when it turned out the Tea Party where whackos.

For RBPL, I recall tons of gravedancing and finger pointing in 2010. It's unfortunate, but there is a faction of the left that does a good deal to harm the party.

[BloodRider]

"Professional Left"? Now you are just repeating stuff Drudge made up.

[Jo498]

what passes for "left" in the US are positions and policies a milimeter left of center (like universal health care) that had been implemented by conservative parties in most continental European countries decades ago.

Of course, in Europe the coordinates have also been shifted so far to the right on most social and economic issues that, for instance in Germany the "leftist" party holds positions that were mainstream social democratic 40 years ago and espoused by the "left wing" of the christian conservatives in the early '80ties.

The claim of a leftward shift often heard by conservatives is only true for "symbolic" issues like gay marriage etc., not for "hard" economic ones. What passed for moderate leftism in the '70ties (society in control of key industries) has often become as utopian/unthinkable as gay marriage would have been in the 50ties.

Nothing against symbolic issues. But the problem is that many people react very emotionally on these, although they do not concern them in their everyday life, job etc. So they tend to believe the leftward shift blabber when the opposite is true for the social and economic issues that do concern most people's job prospects etc.

[Inigima]

Ingima:

So a vocal faction of the left weren't up in arms about the ACA? Factions in the left weren't cheering over 'teaching' the Blue Dogs in 2010?

The left, by all rights, should be winning a lot. Instead, the left has a serious issue with being its own worst enemy.

That is some impressive goalpost shifting. Now the left "can't accept less than 100%" if there is anyone at all on the left who isn't happy with the outcome?

Lookit, I am one of the people unhappy with the ACA. I prefer it to nothing, but I think it's far inferior to single-payer. Usually the only electable "left" party -- whether they qualify is debatable -- isn't far enough left for me.

The charge was that the left can't compromise. The ACA represents a MASSIVE compromise, and even began as a compromise because the Democrats didn't think they could push single-payer. To suggest that the left can't compromise, as you stated, is to be detached from reality, utterly without mooring in fact. The left, frankly, compromises too much for its own good.

[TrackerNeil]

Your statement was that the Dems can't come together to push legislation through. The ACA, despite being pretty bad by any progressive standard, was pushed through, by the Democrats, and the far left wing of the party didn't vote against it because it wasn't enough. Seems to me that that's a fairly solid debunking of your point.

I'm not sure that the ACA is "bad by any progressive standard." It's not at left as, say, single-payer, but it still represents a massive redistribution of wealth, and that sounds pretty progressive to me. It also sounds pretty progressive to the millions of Americans who are now insured who weren't.

[Shryke]

I'm not sure that the ACA is "bad by any progressive standard." It's not at left as, say, single-payer, but it still represents a massive redistribution of wealth, and that sounds pretty progressive to me. It also sounds pretty progressive to the millions of Americans who are now insured who weren't.

It was also decried by many people on the left as a handout to the insurance industry and a failure on Obama's part to get a better deal. (hell, someone was saying that last thread)

Maybe he's phrasing it badly or something, but what Lightsnake88 is talking about is something this thread has discussed a million times before. So I'm not sure what the flak is about.

[MerenthaClone]

It was also decried by many people on the left as a handout to the insurance industry and a failure on Obama's part to get a better deal. (hell, someone was saying that last thread)

Maybe he's phrasing it badly or something, but what Lightsnake88 is talking about is something this thread has discussed a million times before. So I'm not sure what the flak is about.

...and yet, the bill passed without a single person on the "left" voting against it. Saying that there was opposition to the bill is not the same as saying that the "far" left won't compromise in order to pass legislation. There was opposition, as you're saying, and there was compromise, which Lightsnake denied.

edit: vvvvvvv I am reasonably confident that they would have voted for it had their votes been necessary to secure its passage.

[Shryke]

...and yet, the bill passed without a single person on the "left" voting against it. Saying that there was opposition to the bill is not the same as saying that the "far" left won't compromise in order to pass legislation. There was opposition, as you're saying, and there was compromise, which Lightsnake denied.

Not true actually, since a bunch of Democrats in the house voted against it, though symbolically.

And, of course, that's Democrats, not "the left", which encompasses more then just the elected officials.