Season 5 casting - v. 4 [Spoilers]

[Deadwood]

Watched the casting video. It went pretty much as I expected. I was mildly surprised at the name size of the two main chaps, but really happy with it.

Pryce looked a bit old, hope he's OK, filming in this heat will be a task.

Areo looks OK, I was expecting a huge fella.

Made me feel all excited again. :D

[SerArthurHeath]

Lol, are you seriously arguing that Sansa's actions didn't completely fuck Ned over, revealing his plans to Cersei so she and LF could scheme against Ned, and ultimately put him in the position which lead to his death? Ludicrous!

Edit: Love this tool

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE#gid=8

Sansa's actions were completely irrelevant

[Arkash]

About Trystane taking Quentyn's role by the second half of the season, I'd love it, but that'd leave Doran heirless.

So a possibility is that he learns of his death early season 6 and legitimize a Sand Snake afterwards to become his heir, but that'd be too much complexification for nothing.

And the Sand Snakes all have their own agenda (Obara vs. Darkstar, Nym at the SC, Tyene and the Faith) so I dont see how legitimizing one could work in that.

[Hippocras]

About Trystane taking Quentyn's role by the second half of the season, I'd love it, but that'd leave Doran heirless.

So a possibility is that he learns of his death early season 6 and legitimize a Sand Snake afterwards to become his heir, but that'd be too much complexification for nothing.

And the Sand Snakes all have their own agenda (Obara vs. Darkstar, Nym at the SC, Tyene and the Faith) so I dont see how legitimizing one could work in that.

I am actually thinking now that no Martell will go to Meereen. I could see the show using Daario to free the dragons and get roasted because he wants to win back Dany from Hizdahr.

Doran will just send a letter with a messenger to Dany, on behalf of Trystane who will stay alive and well in Dorne, and later maybe negotiate with Aegon after Dany rejects him. If we get Aegon of course.

[Arkash]

What if... and that's a big what if... Jorah takes the place of Quentyn, trying to free the dragons to win back Dany ?

[Hippocras]

What if... and that's a big what if... Jorah takes the place of Quentyn, trying to free the dragons to win back Dany ?

Interesting. But I doubt he would have access by the time it happens. He would still be a slave outside the walls. Or very recently escaped to the Second Sons.

I think Daario makes more sense, because if Daario dies, the new leader of the Second Sons will abandon Dany, and from there Tyrion and Jorah can join them. It gets around the problem that the show never gave us Brown Ben.

[Arkash]

Yeah I guess it could work... actually, anyone in Meereen could open that freaking door, from Hizdhar to Missandei if given the proper motivation in previous episodes.

[naseridrl]

I don't really understand how they can do the Queenmaker plot without Arianne. The premise of it is down to Dorne having different inheritance rights and in Dorne Myrcella would come before Tommen. How can that work if Dorne doesn't have different inheritance rights? How can Trystane take Arianne place without it then becoming about his desire to have a wife who's Queen of the Iron Throne so he can be consort to her. Oberyn talking about his father indicates that he was prince of Dorne in show canon, so it seem Dorne will have inheritance along the same lines of everywhere else, so unless they totally change the Queenmaker plot I'm not sure how it works.

Or will hunk Tryst and Myrcella just be star crossed lovers who want each other but Doran won't let them marry because or Dany, and that'll be the bulk of the plot. But why then let Myrcella come to Dorne if Trystane was already promised to another it makes no sense. Also with less children to plot with it makes Doran less of a schemer. Plotting with his elder two children worked because he always had Trystane in reserve for Dorne if it all went totally wrong.

[Deadwood]

I'll bet on a Son of the Harpy doing it, with thoughts to kill the dragons while they are young.

[Hippocras]

Yeah I guess it could work... actually, anyone in Meereen could open that freaking door, from Hizdhar to Missandei if given the proper motivation in previous episodes.

Yep. It really could be anyone. I guess I lean Daario because the motivation is already practically established, and because it would suit his character. Freeing the dragons is quite a reckless move, which totally fits with what kind of person Daario is.

But however they work it is fine with me.

[Hippocras]

I don't really understand how they can do the Queenmaker plot without Arianne. The premise of it is down to Dorne having different inheritance rights and in Dorne Myrcella would come before Tommen. How can that work if Dorne doesn't have different inheritance rights? How can Trystane take Arianne place without it then becoming about his desire to have a wife who's Queen of the Iron Throne so he can be consort to her. Oberyn talking about his father indicates that he was prince of Dorne in show canon, so it seem Dorne will have inheritance along the same lines of everywhere else, so unless they totally change the Queenmaker plot I'm not sure how it works.

Or will hunk Tryst and Myrcella just be star crossed lovers who want each other but Doran won't let them marry because or Dany, and that'll be the bulk of the plot. But why then let Myrcella come to Dorne if Trystane was already promised to another it makes no sense. Also with less children to plot with it makes Doran less of a schemer. Plotting with his elder two children worked because he always had Trystane in reserve for Dorne if it all went totally wrong.

First of all, in the show, Oberyn was seen reacting to news about Dany as if hearing it for the first time. So there will be no old marriage contract from Braavos. Just a new proposal for Trystane to marry Dany which gets rejected, and which may not require Trystane's presence in Meereen.

Second, if Doran doesn't have a daughter it doesn't change the reality of Dorne's laws. I don't understand at all the notion that Myrcella's rights according to Dornish law are somehow irrelevant if Dorne itself is not having a similar dispute around Arianne. The two things are separate.

[Annara Snow]

First of all, in the show, Oberyn was seen reacting to news about Dany as if hearing it for the first time. So there will be no old marriage contract from Braavos. Just a new proposal for Trystane to marry Dany which gets rejected, and which may not require Trystane's presence in Meereen.

That doesn't mean anything. Doran never told Arianne about the plot in the books, why would you assume Oberyn must have known about it? I'm pretty sure that Doran explicitly says in the book that the only people who knew were him and Illyrio.

[Chebyshov]

I don't really understand how they can do the Queenmaker plot without Arianne. The premise of it is down to Dorne having different inheritance rights and in Dorne Myrcella would come before Tommen. How can that work if Dorne doesn't have different inheritance rights? How can Trystane take Arianne place without it then becoming about his desire to have a wife who's Queen of the Iron Throne so he can be consort to her. Oberyn talking about his father indicates that he was prince of Dorne in show canon, so it seem Dorne will have inheritance along the same lines of everywhere else, so unless they totally change the Queenmaker plot I'm not sure how it works.

Or will hunk Tryst and Myrcella just be star crossed lovers who want each other but Doran won't let them marry because or Dany, and that'll be the bulk of the plot. But why then let Myrcella come to Dorne if Trystane was already promised to another it makes no sense. Also with less children to plot with it makes Doran less of a schemer. Plotting with his elder two children worked because he always had Trystane in reserve for Dorne if it all went totally wrong.

Dornish inheritance will still be a thing, even without Arianne. It's just that Show!Doran doesn't have to worry about it because he only has a son. In the books, the Sand Snakes want war because of Oberyn's death, and Tyene suggests the Queenmaker plot to Doran as one way of getting it. If you read the transcript of Obara's interview (2nd post on the first page), the Snakes talk about the plot in the context of vengeance.

I don't love that they're telling this without Arianne (quite the opposite, actually), but I do trust them to let the Snakes take this expanded role and do something cool. Streamlining makes sense this late in the game.

[Annara Snow]

No Arianne but 3 sand snakes? 2 was plenty, I cannot actually recall any of them but for the sphinx.

They really need the high sparrow for judging Cersei? I think any random priest will do just fine.

Myrcella is needed, but I don't see any value in transforming her story into teen romance.

Hotah actually does anything but killing oakhart? I think that the guy who was casted as Hotah would be perfect as Ben Plumm.

The yellow whale was my favorite slaver because he was fatter than 3 Illyrios.

But what really makes me Angry is no DARKSTAR

*facepalm* It looks like you weren't paying any attention to what was happening in Cersei's chapters KL in AFFC.

[Annara Snow]

I rewatched the panel, and Sophie Turner's "other half" quote about Sansa and Tyrion at the panel got a little mangled in translation upthread, to put it mildly, so here it is in its entirety, for the record:

(Sarcastically) He was my other half. We loved each other soooo much. You could feel the love. (Audience laughter) (Seriously) But they really did actually begin to have this genuine bond and trust with each other, and it was just getting kind of beautiful, and then, um, in the spirit of Game of Thrones, they cut that off. (Audience laughter) But I think, I mean, I would like, in the future, for them to be reunited at some point, um, because I think they'd be a pretty awesome power couple in the future, like the new Brangelina. (Audience laughter) But yeah, I think it was a really lovely relationship, and she was finally beginning to trust him and, uh, love him, not in that way, you know, but just as a person, and they were really on each others' team

LOL at Sophie correcting herself from "I think" to "I would like." She's done that before.

Yeah, I figured those "other half" and "Brangelina" comments were jokes, and this is in line with what she's previously been saying about Sansa's marriage to Tyrion, unlike the nonsense that the people who made the initial transcription wrote (LOL at their transcription, really).

[Annara Snow]

Arianne's arc is not tied to Young Griff's. No Arianne does NOT mean no Young Griff.

If Trystane is heir, Arianne is cut.

We don't know for sure if Arianne's arc is tied to Young Griff. But the way I see it, there are two possibilities:

1) Arianne dies very early in TWOW and is completely irrelevant to the story,

2) Arianne's story is tied to fAegon, and the show is cutting his entire storyline because they find it too complicated and dependent on a complex historical background, and because they want to have just 7 seasons.

Option 2) seems much more likely to me. I would be surprised if GRRM built up Arianne so much and made her a complex POV character across two books just to killer her off early and have her come to absolutely nothing (even Quentyn has some plot relevance).

[SerArthurHeath]

No, it's absolutely clear that Sansa going to Cersei happened after Ned had confronted her. Ned told Cersei three days before the girls were to sail, and he told her at nightfall. Between that and Littlefinger being on Cersei's side, she had everything she needed. Sansa went to Cersei like an hour before the fighting broke out.

In fact it's in the timeline the OP put up!

[LordImp]

If Euron is cut will the ironborn just he gone then? Yara will be a captive of Stannis and Theon of Ramsay. So we will not hear more of Greyjoys and Iron isles. Euron must be in if they are gonna keep the ironborn. Unless Yara becomes the leader of the ironborn or Balon stays alive.

[Hippocras]

We don't know for sure if Arianne's arc is tied to Young Griff. But the way I see it, there are two possibilities:

1) Arianne dies very early in TWOW and is completely irrelevant to the story,

2) Arianne's story is tied to fAegon, and the show is cutting his entire storyline because they find it too complicated and dependent on a complex historical background, and because they want to have just 7 seasons.

Option 2) seems much more likely to me. I would be surprised if GRRM built up Arianne so much and made her a complex POV character across two books just to killer her off early and have her come to absolutely nothing (even Quentyn has some plot relevance).

Well I personally never thought Arianne was in any way tied to Aegon. I think Doran knows he is fake and knows Myrcella is a bastard and will play his Myrcella card with Aegon - whether that means proposing Aegon marry Myrcella to secure his position, or alternatively proposing to turn her over as prisoner. Arianne was sent to negotiate, not to get married.

Any Dornish alliance with Aegon in the books will be basically a sham, until Doran is in position to make his real move.

[Hippocras]

If Euron is cut will the ironborn just he gone then? Yara will be a captive of Stannis and Theon of Ramsay. So we will not hear more of Greyjoys and Iron isles. Euron must be in if they are gonna keep the ironborn. Unless Yara becomes the leader of the ironborn or Balon stays alive.

I agree. There are basically only 2 possibilities.

1. We get both Euron and Victarion, Balon dies, Yara is captured.

2. We get only Victarion, who Balon names his heir because Yara failed at the Dreadfort. Balon himself attacks the Reach, while Victarion goes to Meereen.