Mingolla Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I really can't understand this fixation with the end game. Is that all you care about? The journey is as important if not even more than how the story finishes. Every man and his dog knew Walt would die in Breaking Bad but it's what came before that made the show so brilliant. And even so, you are having to come up with bizarre alternate storylines about bastards being legitimized and Arianne and Aegon being eaten by dragons to justify it. Tell me, why Obara is being cast when there is no darkstar? Will Aero Hotah be important to the 'end game'? Half the characters will have no relevance to the so called end game. I mean, Oberyn is a pointless and useless character if that's the logic you are using. He comes to KL and gets killed in a rage of emotion without accomplishing anything. The End. I would not call "fixation with the end game" like it is something unimportant. Many excellent shows ended badly and killed rewatching value by doing a poor ending. If D+D are determined to end show in 7 seasons and two last book are not out, it is good thing they are thinking about which storyline and characters to incude to create proper organic ending. In Dorne case it seems rather obvious they are trying their best to adapt its characters and story for the show. They will probably want/need Nymeria and Tyene for their KL storyline. Arianne and Obara storylines seems to be abandoned with no Aegon, Arys, Darkstar, Swan casting. So they could teoretically cut both of them like they are cutting whole houses in the North storyline. But they like Dorne enough (surely more then Ironborns) to include Obara too. Why her and not Arianne? Probably because she is more easily incorporated into new storylines then Arianne (she can for example follow Trystane to Mereen as companion if they decided to merge Trystane with Quentin), and because nobody will bitch about "a fanfiction" replacing Darkstar storyline, while if they keep Arianne without her story many would accuse D+D being character butchers. That is lose-lose situation for them, so no wonder if they are cutting Aegon, Arianne is cut too. I can understand you are upset about missing Arianne, but it is not so hard to imagine why they would do it. So many new characters are from Dorne, you should be happy about it if you are Dorne fan. I know i am even though Arianne is missing, Tyene was drastically changed and Sarella was not cast yet. It could be much worse. How do you think readers who enjoyed Ironborns or Northern politics feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I can understand you are upset about missing Arianne, but it is not so hard to imagine why they would do it. So many new characters are from Dorne, you should be happy about it if you are Dorne fan. I know i am even though Arianne is missing, Tyene was drastically changed and Sarella was not cast yet. It could be much worse. How do you think readers who enjoyed Ironborns or Northern politics feel. I really don't think I'll enjoy it especially of the rumoured plotlines are true. It's like having a Stannis storyline without Davos. Sure, you could write it by combining a few characters and end up with no change to the story but it doesn't feel right. As it happens I'm a fan of the Ironborns and the Northern plot, specifically the Davos-Manderley-Frey subplot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyJoe Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I really don't think I'll enjoy it especially of the rumoured plotlines are true. It's like having a Stannis storyline without Davos. Sure, you could write it by combining a few characters and end up with no change to the story but it doesn't feel right. As it happens I'm a fan of the Ironborns and the Northern plot, specifically the Davos-Manderley-Frey subplot... The difference here is that none of the previous seasons had to introduce so many characters/subplots as this one. You are looking at Dorne, Greyjoys, Griff and Jon, as brand new players, not just supporting characters. What's worse, is that most of them don't interact with any established characters. They have to make cuts if they're going to condense AFFC/ADWD into a coherent story for season 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallofice Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Then again, seeing as I am the only one arguing, maybe it's just me. :dunno: It's definitely not just you - I feel exactly the same about Arianne being cut. Obviously we won't know how important she is to the 'endgame' until the books come out, but the fact that they are keeping (and beefing up) a character that doesn't even speak in the books while cutting her leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not going to rage!quit the show or tweet Bryan Cogman about misogyny, but it still leaves me less excited than I was before. I can't believe that just months ago I was worried they'd cut out poor Trystane and had zero concerns about Arianne's inclusion. Sweet summer me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphodbrx Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Arianne is gone man... let it go. At this point, she has less chance of appearing than Stoneheart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 They have to make cuts if they're going to condense AFFC/ADWD into a coherent story for season 5. And I have not, actually said anything to the contrary though I do disagree with the sentiment. The point of contention, is more that we've had 8 characters (including Oberyn and Ellaria) cast from Dorne and not one of them is Arianne. They are making up an entire new storyline for Dorne which does not sit well with me. It's definitely not just you - I feel exactly the same about Arianne being cut. Obviously we won't know how important she is to the 'endgame' until the books come out, but the fact that they are keeping (and beefing up) a character that doesn't even speak in the books while cutting her leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not going to rage!quit the show or tweet Bryan Cogman about misogyny, but it still leaves me less excited than I was before. I can't believe that just months ago I was worried they'd cut out poor Trystane and had zero concerns about Arianne's inclusion. Sweet summer me... That's pretty much my problem with it. 8 characters from Dorne and no Arianne is just flat out illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 8 characters from Dorne and no Arianne is just flat out illogical. Only if you consider the characters as separate from what they plan to do with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Only if you consider the characters as separate from what they plan to do with them. That was in response to suggestions that there were too many new characters for them to cast Arianne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 And the two casting videos for Trystane and Obara. They haven't "already changed the Dornish inheritance" by changing the gender of Oberyn and Doran's ruling parent, as far as we know. The casting videos are usually scenes that end up not even being in the show. They could be going for range, and also trying to keep viewers off-balance. Give me another reason for changing who preceded Doran as Prince/Princess of Dorne. There's no reason to do that unless they are doing away with Dornish inheritance laws as written in the books. It works fine like this: Doran's mother rules, then Doran rules, then Trystane rules. Could easily be explained by Doran's mother having been an only child and thus the only heir. Same as Myrcella being queen if anything happens to Tommen. If you can come up with another reason for the change I'm open to it. I just don't see one right now. On another note: All these posts that are so sure about Arianne being cut will be seriously funny if it turns out she is in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aFeastForDragons Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 If they do cut Arianne is this the first major POV character they have cut? I don't see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 The casting videos are usually scenes that end up not even being in the show. Not when the scenes are original creations. The times when scenes that weren't filmed were used are limited to when they were casting with book material; for instance, the auditions for Sansa and Arya using their conversation at the Ruby Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyJoe Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 That was in response to suggestions that there were too many new characters for them to cast Arianne. Not that there are too many new characters to cast Arianne, but too many new characters and subplots for the show to include them all. With their knowledge of the end game and how each character arc plays out, D&D are in a position to decide which characters are best suited to be cut or merged whereas you and I, are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 If they do cut Arianne is this the first major POV character they have cut? I don't see that happening. I dont think we can consider her ""major" yet. She might not be important to the rest of the storyline thats why she was omitted. Only her actions might be important which could be fulfilled by someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Hand of the King Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Well remember that Grrm when asked about Dorne many years ago said he expected to get Doran and some Sand Snakes at least. That points to some importance of theirs in what's to come. Tyene may well poison Tommen or the High Septon. Nymeria may reek havoc on the Small Council. Obara...who the fuck knows. The point is they may have more to do in the end than Arianne... The real question this raises for me is whether or not we'll get fAegon. It could well mean that we don't, which would be an even bigger spoiler than Arianne not amounting to much. Yes and I believe GRRM also recently made a comment about the Sand Snakes being heavily involved in TWOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Hand of the King Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Which is why I don't think they're going to include Quentyn's story. Trystane is most likely going to inherit Dorne in the books and therefore is the heir on the show. Yea it's a lot easier to envision them cutting Quentyn's story than Arianne's for me. In fact I can completely understand cutting Quentyn, but I have a huge problem with the exclusion of Arianne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagLover Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I am a bit puzzled by this decision. Why have 3 sand snakes (all of him sound very similar on the show) but no Arianne. The only thing I can think of is that this is a signal they are abandoning the whole FAegon story. Whether they have 3 seasons still to come, or 4 as many hope, they wont have time for this storyline in any case and if that is Arianne's main role, until she is killed?, then that is probably why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagLover Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 That's not a valid excuse. Casting Arianne does not mean they have to cast Aegon (though he's another character who should be there). Even not taking into account Arainne's WoW exploits, even her arc from the feast adds a nice element to Dorne. It's certainly hell of a lot better than the love story they have planned. A bit of simplification is understandable but this is taking it too far. And quite frankly given the amount of minutes they waste with inane bollocks, lack of time is something they should not complain about at all. Why on earth when we have only 30 hours, or, at most, 40 hours of screentime left should Aegon be in the show. To just cover the main storyline and resolve all the existing characters stories they are going to be desperately short of time. Also there is very little wasted time on the show. The two things most complained about on the show in the 4th season, the raid on Craster's keep and the raid on the Dreadfort both replaced time that would have otherwise been spent developing the same themes with the characters involved. You may complain about the execution but it does not represent wasted time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 @JLHow did the burping whore help with characterization?And fAegon subplot is incredibly important because fAegon is one of Dany's three lies she must slay. And bcz by all accounts Aegon and Dany will fight each other in a DotD 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagLover Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 @JLHow did the burping whore help with characterization?And fAegon subplot is incredibly important because fAegon is one of Dany's three lies she must slay. And bcz by all accounts Aegon and Dany will fight each other in a DotD 2.So 30 seconds with a burping whore means they have hours to spend setting up a new Faegon plot? I might be proved wrong but I think the Faegon story is a loop that will bring us out to similar eventual destination as if it had never been. Regardless of that fact it is far too late in the show to introduce an element such as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I might be proved wrong but I think the Faegon story is a loop that will bring us out to similar eventual destination as if it had never been. Regardless of that fact it is far too late in the show to introduce an element such as this. Dorne exists for Aegon. Why would they even bother to have Dorne otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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