Game of Thrones getting a big head?

[Dragon in the North]

How many times are you making this statement? One time or one thousand times?

So far, it's only been once.

[Relic]

So far, it's only been once.

Ok...and, what's your question?

You have made you opinion known. Perfectly fine. Now, if you went into every T.D. thread and stated that opinion ten times, and into every B.B. thread and stated that opinion eighteen times, and into every GoT thread and repeated it ad nauseam to anyone who had a differing opinion, what would you be?

[Dragon in the North]

I've only been on this thread for a short while, but based on some of the posts I've seen, a lot of people rigorously defend their favorite characters, the tv show, etc., and I'm just curious why you've singled out sj4iy. He/She is hardly the only one who has taken up a defensive stance about something and refuses to budge.

[of man and wolf]

Only thing about the show I get bothered at all by are sometimes the fight scenes. They dont show enough of them. Like we never saw Robb use his sword in battle other then against a tree. The wolves also do not get enough time when they are far more important in the books. We see a brief shot of them leaping at someone and then tearing the throat out. And just one person, when there are so many to kill. I know it's all budget but the dragons get some time.

The only other thing that bugs me is how they use some characters. I dont need a Missandei/Greyworm love scene or romance. We are spending more time with Danys less important secondary characters than we ever did with Robbs bannermen.

[Relic]

I've only been on this thread for a short while, but based on some of the posts I've seen, a lot of people rigorously defend their favorite characters, the tv show, etc., and I'm just curious why you've singled out sj4iy. He/She is hardly the only one who has taken up a defensive stance about something and refuses to budge.

When I say she has expressed her opinion on the topic s thousand times I'm not joking. In this thread, in every single season 4 thread, and in threads that had nothing to do with GoT.

Also, welcome to the board! It's a mostly merry place :p

[zaphodbrx]

They've changed lines of dialogue since season 1, mostly to make them simpler to understand for the "casual viewer". This goes from small things like saying actor instead of mummer to larger ones like saying "the Lannister sends their regards" instead of "Jaime Lannister". Someone reading the book can stop reading and look up the word mummer or pause and figure out what it means given the context it's used in but when watching it live on TV you can't do that. Worse still, if you're watching with someone they might turn and ask you "what's a mummer?" and in doing so talk over a more important piece of dialogue that they'll also expect you to explain to them. In the same without Jaime's inner monologue to confirm that he had no hand (hehe, you get it?) in the RW, they changed the line so that the "casual viewer" wouldn't think that he'd somehow planned it with Roose offscreen. Changing "only Cat" to "your sister" is pretty much the same. Of course unlike the "Jaime Lannister" to "the Lannisters" switch, it doesn't change the meaning of the line quite as much. Of course they could have had LF and Lysa refer to Catelyn as Cat a bunch in that scene and prior ones to remind the more forgetful viewers that that was her nickname, but the change of line WAS NOT meant as a "fuck you" to the fanbase.

Though like David Simon the Wire's showrunner they COULD operate with the principle of "fuck the casual viewer" (I think he said that in an interview), they haven't and have ended up with a more widely watched show. I doubt that some of GoT's simplifications of the source material are actually the reason for its success but still as Tyrion said to Cersei in ep. 306, "the impulse I understand."

You have to be kidding me if you think the show is simple to understand for the casual viewer.

Have you ever talked to casual viewers? Half of them can't tell the difference between Stannis and Roose Bolton.

[Konradsmith]

I didn't say it's easy to understand for the casual viewer, I said that the showrunners have TRIED to make it somewhat easier to understand. It isn't of course and the less interested viewers still don't get a lot of it but my point was that they've simplified certain things like lines of dialogue so that they would be less confusing (at least minutely). Maybe they were wrong to do that but it's a much more plausible motive than some sortof spite towards the fandom.

[Dragon in the North]

When I say she has expressed her opinion on the topic s thousand times I'm not joking. In this thread, in every single season 4 thread, and in threads that had nothing to do with GoT.

Also, welcome to the board! It's a mostly merry place :P

Thank you! It's been a lot of fun so far.

[sj4iy]

When I say she has expressed her opinion on the topic s thousand times I'm not joking. In this thread, in every single season 4 thread, and in threads that had nothing to do with GoT.

Also, welcome to the board! It's a mostly merry place :p

Says the poster with over 24k posts. I'm sure every single one of those posts concerned fact and not opinion, right?

Of course, this can't be, because you posted some pretty blatant lies about me in the past couple of days. I've defended AND criticized the show. I've also defended AND criticized the books. That's means I'm no different than any other poster in this forum, except you clearly disagree with my opinion and have thus singled me out as some sort of "broken record". You've also resorted to personal attacks, which I find childish. So I would appreciate it if you backed off already.

[PatrickStormborn]

The only 'horrible' scene that comes to mind is the Dreadfort attack. The rest ranged from okay to awesome...pretty much like the books, which range from bad to okay to awesome, as well.

I can't think of any part of ASoS that is "bad", in all honesty. Even in AFfC and ADwD none of the chapters are "bad" - the books are weak because they lack solid conclusions, but not because any single part of them is "bad".

Compare that to the trash at the Dreadfort or at Craster's Keep, the Hound not being detained at the Vale, Arya's awful laughter at the news of Lysa's death, Dany's takeover of Meereen, Sansa's Maleficent dress, skeleton wights without blue eyes (retconning the most identifiable part of the wights), Jaime raping Cersei and then having sex with her in the White Tower, Brienne losing Arya...

Do I need to continue?

Clearly "horrible" is subjective. And that's okay. But you can't defend against something for what essentially comes down to subjective viewpoints. The only thing we can objectively discuss is the quality of the writing, which has been absolutely horrendous on multiple occasions.

There are plenty of great scenes not in the books. Arya and Tywin, Cersei and Tyrion, Varys and Tyrion for example. The show has done a much better job of pairing relevant characters together in interesting ways. The books would have been helped by that instead of Martin inventing new characters every few pages. I completely agree that the books don't lend themselves to screenplays, but the writers have done a great job of converting them. In the hands of lesser writers, it would have very easily become a confused, jumbled mess of epic proportions or so simplified that the story became unrecognizable. The show's not perfect by any means, but I think it's a great adaptation.

You didn't actually give any examples, you just listed pairings you found interesting, but that's completely subjective.

Personally I preferred Arya's interactions with Roose Bolton. Similarly, Cersei, Varys and Tyrion all have more depth in the books, so their interactions are more engaging.

[Relic]

Says the poster with over 24k posts. I'm sure every single one of those posts concerned fact and not opinion, right?

Of course, this can't be, because you posted some pretty blatant lies about me in the past couple of days. I've defended AND criticized the show. I've also defended AND criticized the books. That's means I'm no different than any other poster in this forum, except you clearly disagree with my opinion and have thus singled me out as some sort of "broken record". You've also resorted to personal attacks, which I find childish. So I would appreciate it if you backed off already.

It's funny you mention post count. You have 5.5k posts since APRIL of THIS YEAR. My post count stretches back to the year 2000. You are on pace to eclipse everyone on this board in another 2 years, and 95% of your posts are basically " the t.v. show is great, stop complaining about it, i don't understand why you don't like it, its great its great its great". You're like the Robert Stanek of Hbo's GoT. Are you sure you don't work for HBO?

Yes, I'm calling you out. And it has nothing to do with disagreeing with you. I disagree with EVERYONE who thinks the show is great. all 10 million of them. However you are a special case. You need to relax or you need some serious help. We fucking get it. You love the show. Get a new hobby. I'll leave you alone when you stop spamming every thread you post in with the same subjective shit.

[Ingelheim]

It's funny you mention post count. You have 5.5k posts since APRIL of THIS YEAR. My post count stretches back to the year 2000. You are on pace to eclipse everyone on this board in another 2 years, and 95% of your posts are basically " the t.v. show is great, stop complaining about it, i don't understand why you don't like it, its great its great its great". You're like the Robert Stanek of Hbo's GoT. Are you sure you don't work for HBO?

Yes, I'm calling you out. And it has nothing to do with disagreeing with you. I disagree with EVERYONE who thinks the show is great. all 10 million of them. However you are a special case. You need to relax or you need some serious help. We fucking get it. You love the show. Get a new hobby. I'll leave you alone when you stop spamming every thread you post in with the same subjective shit.

Okay, you disagree with that. He disagrees with you. But really, both of you...chill the fuck out. This is supposed to be a friendly debate about the Show being overrated or not.

[Ingelheim]

I can't think of any part of ASoS that is "bad", in all honesty. Even in AFfC and ADwD none of the chapters are "bad" - the books are weak because they lack solid conclusions, but not because any single part of them is "bad".

Compare that to the trash at the Dreadfort or at Craster's Keep, the Hound not being detained at the Vale, Arya's awful laughter at the news of Lysa's death, Dany's takeover of Meereen, Sansa's Maleficent dress, skeleton wights without blue eyes (retconning the most identifiable part of the wights), Jaime raping Cersei and then having sex with her in the White Tower, Brienne losing Arya...

Do I need to continue?

Clearly "horrible" is subjective. And that's okay. But you can't defend against something for what essentially comes down to subjective viewpoints. The only thing we can objectively discuss is the quality of the writing, which has been absolutely horrendous on multiple occasions.

You didn't actually give any examples, you just listed pairings you found interesting, but that's completely subjective.

Personally I preferred Arya's interactions with Roose Bolton. Similarly, Cersei, Varys and Tyrion all have more depth in the books, so their interactions are more engaging.

Not really sure about your point. You say no one can really say facts about subjective things, but then you say you can objectiely discuss wrting, which is subjective again.

[Relic]

Not really sure about your point. You say no one can really say facts about subjective things, but then you say you can objectiely discuss wrting, which is subjective again.

A - Don't worry, we're all great friends here. Just gonna iron out this little issue, and move on. Be concerned when you see me repeat the same thing i said already a thousand times.

B - I'm pretty sure you know his point. Writing is mostly subjective, you either like it or you don't. However, logic and consistency within writing is not subjective. It either is or is not logical or consistent.

[Ingelheim]

A - Don't worry, we're all great friends here. Just gonna iron out this little issue, and move on. Be concerned when you see me repeat the same thing i said already a thousand times.

B - I'm pretty sure you know his point. Writing is mostly subjective, you either like it or you don't. However, logic and consistency within writing is not subjective. It either is or is not logical or consistent.

A- Perfect then :cheers:

B- I agree consistency can be discussed, but consistency has only failed, overall, on numbers (armies, money, etc). The rest is just "consistency about characters", which they have changed if you compare them with the books. But many Unsullied don't know that.

The other day I told Patrick that I've found many Unsullied who liked the Tyrion-Jaime farewell, without Tysha, which was dreadful IMO. Here is when you can see how subjective writing is.

[sj4iy]

I can't think of any part of ASoS that is "bad", in all honesty. Even in AFfC and ADwD none of the chapters are "bad" - the books are weak because they lack solid conclusions, but not because any single part of them is "bad".

Compare that to the trash at the Dreadfort or at Craster's Keep, the Hound not being detained at the Vale, Arya's awful laughter at the news of Lysa's death, Dany's takeover of Meereen, Sansa's Maleficent dress, skeleton wights without blue eyes (retconning the most identifiable part of the wights), Jaime raping Cersei and then having sex with her in the White Tower, Brienne losing Arya...

Do I need to continue?

I enjoyed the Craster Keep change. Other than Locke's death, which was strangely anticlimactic, I enjoyed getting some action where I was expecting none. And Karl Tanner was a fun villain. Really, I had more problem with the fact that the NWmen just sat around for a couple of episodes while places like Molestown got slaughtered for absolutely no reason whatsoever. The NWmen were even THERE and didn't warn anyone. That made no sense to me whatsoever, and I wish they had followed the books in that case and had Molestown evacuated up to Castle Black.

The Hound in the Vale was fine as it was. I see no issue with it. I don't see why those guards would have believed that was Arya given the way she reacted to the news of Lysa's death, so it doesn't surprise me that they simply left without issue. Guards aren't paid to think critically about stuff.

Sansa's dress was black with feathers. Big deal. All of the outfits have lions, fish, dragon scales, suns and wolves embroidered on them somehow. If she's going to go around with the mockingbird, then feathers aren't very strange or evil-looking to me.

Skeletons don't HAVE eyes. Surely it would have been a mistake to give them 'blue eyes' when they don't have eyes in the first place?

Jaime raping Cersei was badly directed. I've never said anything different. It's obvious that it wasn't portrayed the way they intended and caused a problem.

Brienne losing Arya makes sense to me. No problem with that.

Clearly "horrible" is subjective. And that's okay. But you can't defend against something for what essentially comes down to subjective viewpoints. The only thing we can objectively discuss is the quality of the writing, which has been absolutely horrendous on multiple occasions.

I don't see how you can criticize based on opinion if I can't defend it based on such. If we had to talk about things only based on "fact" or "objectivity", then this forum wouldn't exist. And saying "the quality of the writing has been horrendous" is COMPLETELY subjective with absolutely nothing objective about it.

You didn't actually give any examples, you just listed pairings you found interesting, but that's completely subjective.

Personally I preferred Arya's interactions with Roose Bolton. Similarly, Cersei, Varys and Tyrion all have more depth in the books, so their interactions are more engaging.

...do I really need to give 'examples' when it's clear which scenes I'm talking about? You prefer the books. Okay. I like what's in the books, too. But that doesn't mean I can't like what the show did. I actually liked what the show did with Arya and Tywin more than I liked the books, if I'm honest. I thought their chemistry was great.

I think Cersei is a much more rounded character in the show. Same with Varys and Tywin. The books have a distinct disadvantage with non-POV characters because they can't get into their thoughts, nor can we really see them with other non-POV characters. The show can give us scenes that the books can't, and give us the ability to see more into those non-POV (or late POV) characters. Now, it's a distinct ADVANTAGE for the books when it comes to some of the POV characters, like Jon Snow, who aren't very talkative or show much emotion. That's where the show can run into trouble, because we have a character who is very verbose in his thoughts, but can't always translate it outwardly onscreen...hence the reason some viewers were confused when the Wall storyline was pushed to the forefront this season. Then we have a verbose character like Tyrion who constantly thinks about Tysha but never really talks about her, which means that we lose that entire thread onscreen.

But for minor characters, I think the show has the advantage over the books.

[breakfastfestival]

I know people are perfectly entitled to whinge away about every change, and even look for mistakes where they aren't there, or possibly where they are so minor it is insignificant... Actually that's all I have.

[sj4iy]

I know people are perfectly entitled to whinge away about every change, and even look for mistakes where they aren't there, or possibly where they are so minor it is insignificant... Actually that's all I have.

Agreed. As long as it goes both ways.

[Relic]

B- I agree consistency can be discussed, but consistency has only failed, overall, on numbers (armies, money, etc). The rest is just "consistency about characters", which they have changed if you compare them with the books. But many Unsullied don't know that.

Is that true, really? Explain Asha's (Yara's) jaunt into the Dreadfort then. Just for giggles.

[Ingelheim]

Is that true, really? Explain Asha's (Yara's) jaunt into the Dreadfort then. Just for giggles.

All right, Yara's jaunt into the Dreadfort was terrible. I stand corrected about that. But many scenes people mention (Craster's Keep, etc)...I don't find them inconsistent.