Game of Thrones getting a big head?

[The Dragons Hand]

For the most part I have been very much satisfied with the show. That is threatening to change with season five where everything south of the neck and east of Braavos threatens to be a poorly invented story we didn't need because IRONBORN, YOUNG GRIFF, STONEHEART, TREATY OF RIVERRUN. All of which are seemingly being dropped for absolutely no fucking reason.

[breakfastfestival]

Yes. No reason. Okay.

[PatrickStormborn]

Not really sure about your point. You say no one can really say facts about subjective things, but then you say you can objectiely discuss wrting, which is subjective again.

Writing preference is subjective, but there are certain things we can discuss objectively about writing. One example is the Hound not being detained by the guards of the Vale - that is sloppy writing. Talisa asking Robb if he's mad with her for being pregnant - when he needs an heir and she has no access to birth control - is terrible writing. Everything in Qarth was terrible. I can list more examples if you need them.

If the writing does not stand up to the internal logic already established by the show, it must be considered objectively bad.

[sj4iy]

Writing preference is subjective, but there are certain things we can discuss objectively about writing. One example is the Hound not being detained by the guards of the Vale - that is sloppy writing. Talisa asking Robb if he's mad with her for being pregnant - when he needs an heir and she has no access to birth control - is terrible writing. Everything in Qarth was terrible. I can list more examples if you need them.

If the writing does not stand up to the internal logic already established by the show, it must be considered objectively bad.

It's not objective at all. It's purely subjective as to whether the writing is good or not. You think the Hound at the Vale is bad writing, but that doesn't make it fact. You can't possibly say that someone who likes that scene is being less objective about it than you are, because it's opinion in both cases.

[PatrickStormborn]

It's not objective at all. It's purely subjective as to whether the writing is good or not. You think the Hound at the Vale is bad writing, but that doesn't make it fact. You can't possibly say that someone who likes that scene is being less objective about it than you are, because it's opinion in both cases.

The Hound is a wanted criminal throughout the kingdoms. The knights of the Vale believe they are supporting the crown. He claims to have Arya Stark. And they got away with no explanation. It's sloppy writing.

The Talisa example is an example of truly awful writing, however.

[sj4iy]

The Hound is a wanted criminal throughout the kingdoms. The knights of the Vale believe they are supporting the crown. He claims to have Arya Stark. And they got away with no explanation. It's sloppy writing.

...where does it say that the knights of the Vale believe they are supporting the crown? I thought it was clear that they were staying out of the war. The last thing they would want to do if they are trying to stay neutral is to take the Hound. And of course, they would have to fight him.

I could think of a dozen reasons why they would let them go. If I can do that, then it's not 'sloppy writing'. And again, it's your opinion, with absolutely nothing 'objective' about it.

The Talisa example is an example of truly awful writing, however.

...what, that she existed? I don't understand what you are even criticizing here. Is there a specific scene you have in mind?

[breakfastfestival]

Writing preference is subjective, but there are certain things we can discuss objectively about writing. One example is the Hound not being detained by the guards of the Vale - that is sloppy writing. Talisa asking Robb if he's mad with her for being pregnant - when he needs an heir and she has no access to birth control - is terrible writing. Everything in Qarth was terrible. I can list more examples if you need them.

If the writing does not stand up to the internal logic already established by the show, it must be considered objectively bad.

Oooh yes please! I need more examples of things that are objectively bad for you to rant on about! And totally not an embittered opinion of a fan who seems to see the bad in everything ever. Please!

[Ingelheim]

...where does it say that the knights of the Vale believe they are supporting the crown? I thought it was clear that they were staying out of the war. The last thing they would want to do if they are trying to stay neutral is to take the Hound. And of course, they would have to fight him.

I could think of a dozen reasons why they would let them go. If I can do that, then it's not 'sloppy writing'. And again, it's your opinion, with absolutely nothing 'objective' about it.

...what, that she existed? I don't understand what you are even criticizing here. Is there a specific scene you have in mind?

Patrick mentioned the scene in which Talysa asks Robb if he's angry at her because she's pregnant.

That was badly done, to be honest.

[sj4iy]

Patrick mentioned the scene in which Talysa asks Robb if he's angry at her because she's pregnant.

That was badly done, to be honest.

Hmm, I'll have to rewatch it because I don't remember that scene. Thanks for letting me know which one it was.

Really, though, I'm not arguing that there isn't any bad writing in the series...I'm arguing against the notion that it is objective to say that this scene is bad, while it is subjective to say that it isn't. It's nonsense. Every opinion is subjective by definition. Only facts are objective. I'm sure there are people out there that had no problem with the Dreadfort scene...but I don't see why they are automatically wrong simply because other people disagree with them.

[Karmarni]

My opinion is that I dislike where the show seems to be going. (See Jaime in Dorne). I dislike where it has been going for the past three seasons. Each little bullshit thing adds up. It can only give me so much in costume drama, travelogue scenery and CGI direwolves and dragons for a dollop of fantasy. Some of the characters who are book characters seem invented to me now (see poopy Sansa).

Craster’s Keep was terrible. Karl Tanner was nasty – and non-book readers loved him! What a waste. They could have used all that created ‘love’ and given some more love to a book character. It’s hard talking to show only people when they have such different impressions of the characters. I want to shake them sometimes. Jon Snow has looked dumb for most of the show’s run. Oh, but he’s got pretty hair!

The skeletons looked cool, but they were out of place in the series, blue eyes or no. They did not mesh with what had been done before. I think they just liked the idea of doing the Harryhausen turn. Too bad about the money it was rumored to cost.

As for adaptation of character’s thoughts, I think they could show more effort in doing that but I'm not certain the showrunners are good enough tv writers to do it. But it would go a long way in showing character motivation, which is lacking, in my opinion.

[Beric175]

I think for people who had no prior experience working in tv the show is a great achievement so far. The only reason people say that the show has bad writing sometimes is because they haven't been able to see that the prose in the books is poor a lot of the time too...

[Ingelheim]

My opinion is that I dislike where the show seems to be going. (See Jaime in Dorne). I dislike where it has been going for the past three seasons. Each little bullshit thing adds up. It can only give me so much in costume drama, travelogue scenery and CGI direwolves and dragons for a dollop of fantasy. Some of the characters who are book characters seem invented to me now (see poopy Sansa).

Craster’s Keep was terrible. Karl Tanner was nasty – and non-book readers loved him! What a waste. They could have used all that created ‘love’ and given some more love to a book character. It’s hard talking to show only people when they have such different impressions of the characters. I want to shake them sometimes. Jon Snow has looked dumb for most of the show’s run. Oh, but he’s got pretty hair!

The skeletons looked cool, but they were out of place in the series, blue eyes or no. They did not mesh with what had been done before. I think they just liked the idea of doing the Harryhausen turn. Too bad about the money it was rumored to cost.

As for adaptation of character’s thoughts, I think they could show more effort in doing that but I'm not certain the showrunners are good enough tv writers to do it. But it would go a long way in showing character motivation, which is lacking, in my opinion.

I loved Karl Tanner and Craster's Keep. Many here seem to do the same.

As I say...writing is subjective.

[aFeastForDragons]

...where does it say that the knights of the Vale believe they are supporting the crown? I thought it was clear that they were staying out of the war. The last thing they would want to do if they are trying to stay neutral is to take the Hound. And of course, they would have to fight him.

I could think of a dozen reasons why they would let them go. If I can do that, then it's not 'sloppy writing'. And again, it's your opinion, with absolutely nothing 'objective' about it.

...what, that she existed? I don't understand what you are even criticizing here. Is there a specific scene you have in mind?

Arya Stark, daughter of Eddard Stark, niece of recently murdered aunt who owns the Vale, missing presumed dead, known throughout the 7 kingdoms, wanted by the crown and the North, comes walking up to the Vale with the Hound, a traitorous Kingsguard who is also wanted by the crown. The walk up announce themselves and are turned away without a second thought.

If you think that isn't sloppy writing then I know understand why they dumb the show down so much.

[sj4iy]

Arya Stark, daughter of Eddard Stark, niece of recently murdered aunt who owns the Vale, missing presumed dead, known throughout the 7 kingdoms, wanted by the crown and the North, comes walking up to the Vale with the Hound, a traitorous Kingsguard who is also wanted by the crown. The walk up announce themselves and are turned away without a second thought.

If you think that isn't sloppy writing then I know understand why they dumb the show down so much.

You know, I'll never understand why people have to resort to insults when discussing a tv show with fictional characters.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The Talisa example is an example of truly awful writing, however.

Everything Talisa was an intent to appeal the modern viewership of women, imo. Having a "modern" woman there, and make us believe that Robb isn't some airheaded boy who would fall for a pretty face but a strong confident woman full with independence and agency. Of course, that ended up badly. The moment she said that the bedding was barbaric (or something) I laughed. Isn't she from Volantis? What, in this universe Volantis is some sort of 21th Century city with equal human rights or something?

Don't fix what isn't broken is something that D&D should write at least 1000 times so they get the message.

[Tolsimir]

I also hated what Talisa did to Robb's character. In the books he didn't marry for love, but because he valued the honor of an innocent girl over his. With that he showed he is truly his fathers son.

Meanwhile on the show he knows perfectly well that what he is doing is wrong, just to (imo) appeal to a modern audience where love>everything. His actions are basically a big fuck you to Eddard.

[Ingelheim]

I also hated what Talisa did to Robb's character. In the books he didn't marry for love, but because he valued the honor of an innocent girl over his. With that he showed he is truly his fathers son.

Meanwhile on the show he knows perfectly well that what he is doing is wrong, just to (imo) appeal to a modern audience where love>everything. His actions are basically a big fuck you to Eddard.

Robb loved Jeyne.

[Tolsimir]

Robb loved Jeyne.

That's not why he married her though.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Everything Talisa was an intent to appeal the modern viewership of women, imo. Having a "modern" woman there, and make us believe that Robb isn't some airheaded boy who would fall for a pretty face but a strong confident woman full with independence and agency. Of course, that ended up badly. The moment she said that the bedding was barbaric (or something) I laughed. Isn't she from Volantis? What, in this universe Volantis is some sort of 21th Century city with equal human rights or something?

Don't fix what isn't broken is something that D&D should write at least 1000 times so they get the message.

No, no, no.....in showcannon Volantis = Bad, hence that is why Saint Talisa left, LOL

I'd like a little mantra about basic storyline and script continuity, too, but I think I've given up on it, truth be told.

LOVE LOVE LOVE YOUR NEW AVI!! :wub: Why do I feel like he looks so young, and so nekkid, without a beard, though? :D

[of man and wolf]

All right, Yara's jaunt into the Dreadfort was terrible. I stand corrected about that. But many scenes people mention (Craster's Keep, etc)...I don't find them inconsistent.

I have a feeling her attack on the dreadfort came off so awkwardly simply because I believe the scene was heavily edited for some reason. Hopefully not to fit in some pointless banter between Missandei and Grey Worm.

I dont believe Ramsay just suddenly decided to splash blood all over himself. He was sexing his girl, he may have murdered her, and there may have been more fighting. I also believe they edited the part with the Dogs. I cant fathom how they could outrun the dogs without something happening there.