Anyone else felt sorry for Cersei?

[Faydra]

The walk of shame doesn't make me feel bad for her, it just makes me despise the High Septon as well.

This is very well put:

the walk isn't something she "deserves" but it's very "karmic"

[Mithras]

Which is worse? Beheading or WoS?

ETA: Cersei deserved a large number of beheadings.

ETA 2: Who in Westeros was punished for the crime he/she committed and punished justly?

ETA 3: Who can judge and punish people like Ramsay, Amory Lorch, Gregor, Cersei, Euron etc.?

ETA 4: As long as there is not a monarch to apply true justice, I don't give a fig when these scums are punished for wrong reasons.

[NOT A TARG I SWEAR]

She's hardly a even bad person.

I don't see how you could say she wasn't a bad person. Based on multiple stories we hear of her even from a young age, she sounds like a narcissistic, entitled, ruthless brat. She more than likely killed her friend before she was 10. She probably ordered the deaths of Robert's bastards including babies. She ordered people to essentially kill a bunch of people that resembled Tyrion in hopes of killing Tyrion. She had multiple people tortured for various reasons. I really don't see how she is any better than Littlefinger.

[Lady Isis]

Let me think about it........

No.

[SeanF]

There are times I feel sorry for her (including the Walk of Shame). Basically, she's Aerys III. She is constantly fearful and paranoid.

That doesn't mean she's not a horrible person.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Which is worse? Beheading or WoS?

There is not a measure to know what's worst, but apparently, for some reason, the WoS is treated like it's the worst thing that could happen to a person and no one should be humiliated in that way.

What about what happened to Robb Stark? He not only saw himself suddenly betrayed but he saw his men die to protect him. Also, his last thoughts were probably a panicking feel of his mother being about to get killed as well. Having his head severed and being replaced it by his wolf's isn't a humiliation that no one, even after death, should go trough? Somehow, that's not "the worst think that could happen to a person" and he kinda had it coming, or at least, it's understandable that this happened because it's a consequence of his actions. Cersei's wos is also a consequence of her actions, but why is what happened to her more terrible and appalling that what happened to Robb Stark?

[Mithras]

^ I think Amory Lorch and Vargo Hoat beat Cersei in a punishment that no human should go through, and possibly Gregor too. But I don't see anyone giving figs to the manner of their deaths and I personally don't care either. Justice is not only about giving a person what she/he deserves. It is also about stopping that criminal committing further crimes and although the methods were gruesome, they all served to stop (or give a break in Cersei's case) the scums doing more atrocities.

Robb's case was not exactly a punishment and what happened to him is far more appalling than the scums mentioned above.

[SeanF]

There is not a measure to know what's worst, but apparently, for some reason, the WoS is treated like it's the worst thing that could happen to a person and no one should be humiliated in that way.What about what happened to Robb Stark? He not only saw himself suddenly betrayed but he saw his men die to protect him. Also, his last thoughts were probably a panicking feel of his mother being about to get killed as well. Having his head severed and being replaced it by his wolf's isn't a humiliation that no one, even after death, should go trough? Somehow, that's not "the worst think that could happen to a person" and he kinda had it coming, or at least, it's understandable that this happened because it's a consequence of his actions. Cersei's wos is also a consequence of her actions, but why is what happened to her more terrible and appalling that what happened to Robb Stark?

It isn't. But, we don't get Robb's point of view. From Catelyn's point of view, the Red Wedding is far worse than the Walk of Shame.

[SeanF]

If I can give a real-life example, the death of Hugh Despenser the Younger in 1327, is painful to read about. He was a horrible man, even worse than Cersei, who surely merited execution. But, he too was stripped naked, and exposed to the humiliation of the crowd, before being tortured to death.

Humiliation, even of people who deserve death, leaves a bad taste in one's mouth.

[Disputatious]

Some real life medieval punishments and tortures were unspeakablely evil by modern standards. Our author has spared us those for the most part. The high sparrow's misogyny is disgusting, but he too will get his. He has made his own fate just as Cersei did hers (for the most part). He gambled on Tommen and the Lannisters and he will lose, if not at Aegon's hand or that of Stannis, then at Dany's. One of those three at least will annul all of Tommen's decrees including the one restoring the Faith Militant.

[Kevvy]

Do I feel sympathy for someone who murdered a friend aged 9 due to a prophecy, based her whole life around said prophecy thus creating her own problems, sends people to get tortured, hates Margarey for being more beautiful and younger and thus try's her best to get her killed, and has a hatred/envy for anyone with a penis and whose only punishment so far has been to show her saggy boobs?

No.

[SeanF]

From Cersei's point of view, the sexism of the punishment (real though it is) isn't the worst aspect.

It's the fact that she's a Queen and noblewoman who's being dragged through the mud. She's the Queen Regent, and one of the Lords Paramount of Westeros, who's being treated in the same way as one of the lowest members of society. From childhood, she, like all of her class, has been brought up to believe she sits at the right hand of God. Now, she's had all her pride and status taken away from her.

That's why I think the comparison with Hugh DeSpenser is apt. After his capture, he was placed on a broken down horse, with his coat of arms reversed, and a crown of nettles on his head. Then he was led from Neath to Hereford. At every town and village along the way, heralds invited the people to come out and mock him. In Hereford, he was stripped naked, and pelted with dung by the jeering crowds.

The High Septon isn't just punishing a sexually active woman. He's expressing his disgust with all the nobility, and demonstrating what he can do to any of them.

[nastydream]

I actually did :/

I wanted Jaime to march in and kill the HS

I wanted Cersei to be alive to watch Casterly Rock burned by dragonfire!

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Cersei's "walk of shame" touches on the guilt of the collective conscious of several european peoples. The practice is not that far to be out of memory; there are women still living who have suffered this, as you can read in this article.

No matter what Cersei thought of that before and / or during the walk of shame, her behaviour afterwards as observed in Kevan's epilogue is very close to that of a rape victim. This should not be belittled.

And, while the true motive of the high sparrow is to hurt her prestige as queen and consequently undermine her power --and to show his teeth to the nobility, as well--, the "excuse" for it was her sexual life. It is a discustingly sexist "punishment" and I can't feel that anyone, not even Cersei, could ever deserve such humiliation.

That said, there is a karmic and an ironic element as this was her intent for Margaery and yes, she did put herself in this situation, but it does not take away the feeling of discust for the action each and every time I read the chapter. Cersei was long due some comeuppance but, by selecting this specific way, the author deprives the reader --intentionally, I believe-- from any emotional reward that may be felt when (poetic) justice is served: for this was not justice, it was another crime; only, the former victimiser is the new victim. And it feels bad.

[Mithras]

I think the Real Word medieval practices include significatly worse atrocities than the WoS. Humiliation was part of the legal system and only recently we came to realize that it does not serve justice. Hence, WoS is not a crime in the context of the story.

In ASOIAF, justice rarely happens but karma is always a bitch. It is hard to feel sorry for the victims of karma.

[SeanF]

In order to spare their modesty, women who were guilty of treason were granted the "mercy" of being burned alive, rather than being hanged, drawn, and quartered. In the case of noblewomen, this was usually commuted to beheading.

You're correct to identify hanging drawing and quartering as a ritualistic punishment, over and above being a hideously painful way to die. The aim was to completely obliterate the traitor, physically and spiritually.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

But why copmare it to death, since the WoS was not alternative to death penalty? Cersei still has to undergo trial. If she's found guilty, it will be death for her too. That trials more often than not do not do justice in ASOIAF, is a whole different story, not exclusively related to Cersei...

It was done strictly for the "crime" of adultery -after she was widowed, notably- and it did not absolve her from everything else she is accused for. So IMO, it's sort of derailment to compare it to other types of penalties and especially to death penalty, gruesome or not.

[SeanF]

Shadow Cat Rivers,

It does suggest that if Cersei were found guilty, the manner of her death would be frightful.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Shadow Cat Rivers,

It does suggest that if Cersei were found guilty, the manner of her death would be frightful.

Why do you think so, I'm curious?

The upcoming trial by combat will more likely find her "innocent" (thanks to UnGregor and to the fact that the high sparrow will might well prefer a boy king and a supposedly subdued queen regent than a possibly competent replacement) but if she's found guilty, he can play the merciful and give her the highborn treatment, beheading. What would that cost to him?

[SeanF]

I think the story requires her to be found innocent, or else to escape, after being found guilty.

The High Septon's readiness to humiliate a member of the highest nobility in the way that he did suggests to me that the HS would not follow the usual conventions, if she were found guilty. If she were found guilty of murder, incest, deicide, regicide, and treason, I don't think she'd get off with a beheading.