Who is more important for the show to cast: Arianne or the Griffs? (Book Spoilers)

[jaimereborn]

While there has been a massive outcry about Arianne being almost certainly cut, and while I am a big fan of the character, I can see the show just about working without her (though probably not being as good as the books, but hey what's new).

While Arianne's desire to be queen is important in that it will surely drag Dorne into a dangerous political marriage alliance with Aegon in the books, likely instigating a Dany vs Aegon dance of dragons 2.0 - I think this alliance can be achieved through other means. The shame is that we lose the complexity of the character, of the issue of female birthright in Dorne and of a more subtle kind of lust for vengeance. The Sand Snakes though, can pretty much fulfill the queenmaker plot, with Ellaria being the much needed rational POV who will question their desire for vengeance and the dangers of war as in the books, and I'm sure that this in the long term will result in Myrcella's accidental death. It is also likely that, although less ideal and less clearly motivated, Dorne can support Aegon's cause without Arianne's political marriage. In the meantime, I believe Trystane will be introduced at the beginning of S5 talking at the Water Gardens with Doran, being told of the the Dornish plot to steal Dany's dragons etc, before being whisked off to Dany to serve the function of Quentyn - whose death will be a key factor in the derailing of Doran's plans and the unexpected reversal of fortunes that will see them fighting AGAINST Dany's dragons. I reckon Trystane will probably reach Mereen by the end of the season and release the dragons in e10, the episode after Dany has left Mereen on the back of Drogon. The season cliffhanger will be on the eve of the battle, I think, as in the books.

Now if both the Griffs are cut, I really struggle to see how the show can reach a similar point with endgames and standoffs. No political alliance with Aegon will mean that a potential Dorne & Aegon vs Dany and Dance of Dragons outcome (which has been HEAVILY foreshadowed throughout ASOIAF) is extremely unlikely, unless the Martells simply take King's Landing via Sand Snakes infiltration and then install Trystane on the throne, killing Myrcella and Tommen. But this is a plan that would make no sense with Doran's characterisation - who is actively trying to avoid the death of children and outright vengeance - as this approach would make him just as bad as Tywin (unfortunately I think the backfiring of Doran's plans will unwittingly turn him into a Tywin 2.0 - responsible for the death of thousands of innocents!) I guess in the simplified show scenario of Trystane taking the throne, Dany could then arrive and contest his rulership.. but again her characterisation would be skewed as her grounds for returning to Westeros and invading will be far less - I think one of the prime factors for her returning to Westeros quickly (with Tyrion and her new Ironborn allies) will be to contest the claim of Aegon to her birthright - which will necessarily pit her against Dorne in an all-out war.

Thus while Arianne is a POV and is a major ommission, I will feel far more disappointed and concerned about the direction of the show if the Griffs do not appear in Season 5. I think their arrival marks a massive turning point toward the culmination of long-term arcs for the Targaryens and the Martells.

[Ingelheim]

Griffs. By far.

[Mingolla]

Yea i think if D+D decided to stick close to the books, than Aegon is in and is more important then Arianne. It could work quite well, even without her. Only problem i see with probability of this version, if they kept Aegon they would not cut Arianne. It could work without her, but if you was a writer and planned to do Aegon story, would you cut her? I think no Aegon is primary reason why there is no Arianne.

Second version, well it is hard to guess how would D+D adapt it. It could be quite different then how you described it. I can see why would they choose to cut Aegon, cutting whole storyline would give them much needed screentime for other characters, so important characters and plot points are not rushed. And there is that whole issue with Aegon as a secret Targaryen and a Conquerer stealing limelight from Jon and Dany. Dorne taking over KL and being responsible for Myrcella and Tommen deaths. I think it is quite possible it will happen in the books too. It seems like something GRRM would do, to finally give us the revenge against Lannisters we waited so long, expect that revenge would be pretty much against innocent Lannisters (even Cersei is innocent in regards of everything bad what happened to Martells and Targaryens), so we could feel very uneasy about it. It could be Sand Snakes initiative, so Doran would remain in character (including that part where his plans don´t go as planned). What Dany would do, again is hard to guess, but her visions from season 2 suggest she will choose to confront danger in the North rather then to sit on Iron Throne. So i guess they could skip potencial conflict with Dorne. If there is any such conflict in the books in the first place, It is not sure at all, for me it would be against Doran character, he is so cautious with his revenge against Lannisters, it is not believable to me he would go against Dany and her Dragons only because his son was stupid. Not openly anyway. I can see season 6 ending with Lannisters downfall (Jaime will go to Riverlands and meet LS in season 6 if he is killed by her in the books) and season 7 will concentrate on Dany return and fight against WW. For 7 seasons show there is no place for Aegon imo, for 8 seasons show it would be different.

[TheHouseHB]

I do not think that the Griffs are cut. I just think that David and Dan are keeping their casting a secret so that when they reveal that there is another Targaryen will have more shock value. Because when people google who are the Griffs who are non book readers will be spoiled and the reveal will not be as shocking.

[RooseIsLoose]

Not casting the Griffs will take so much of the effect away from the ADWD storyline imo. I just love the fact after all this talk of Daenerys returning triumphant as the last Targaryen, by the time she returns she'll be contested by a supposed Targaryen who has a greatee claim than her own. Then we'll see what a hypicrite she is.

[Starkfaithful85]

i think book readers should quite simply just change the griff wikis just to prevent the show readers from inadvertently ruining the surprise for themselves. to be honest when i was first reading the books i frequently looked up houses and places so i could get a good understanding of the politics of westeros. i find it hard to believe that the show readers would not do the same given that they have even less source material in the show,

[Ser Frasier of House Crane]

The Griffs, I'd say, because Arianne ties directly into their plotline. Without them, what would she even do?

[Hos the Hostage]

The Griffs!!!

[RooseIsLoose]

And yet everyone goes ballistic when Arianne is cut yet are seemingly unohased by the Griffs' omission.

[~DarkHorse~]

Lady Stoneheart

Or the Griffs, I guess.

[Daemon I Blackfyre]

JonCon and Aegon of course.

Arianne would still be a big cut, but Aegon (fake or not) is in for the throne and he's also Varys and Illyrio's greatest piece.

The only way they could cut him off, would be having Varys explain how Daenerys was the one he wanted to see on the throne all along, and at that point it would just seem very unlikely.

[Tyene's Double Daggers]

Dorne is still represented without her

[Rhaegal Targaryen]

The Griffs.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Dorne is still represented without her

This, while the Griffs will still be represented by...Dany :drunk:

And yet everyone goes ballistic when Arianne is cut yet are seemingly unohased by the Griffs' omission.

That's because Arianne is arguably the most rounded and layered character introduced in aFfC/aDwD, while Young Griff grew from a bean

But yeah, I agree, the Griffs seem to be poised to have a much greater impact in the plot

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I'll go over there (--> there) and cry ;_________________;

[JonCon's Red Beard]

That's because Arianne is arguably the most rounded and layered character introduced in aFfC/aDwD, while Young Griff grew from a bean

who cares about Young Griff.... ;______________;

[Visenya Stark]

The Griffs. [emoji27] Part of the reason I'm going to watch season 5 is for this story arc.

[Good Guy Garlan]

who cares about Young Griff.... ;______________;

Don't get me wrong, I actually like the kid, but compared to Arianne he is a zero

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Don't get me wrong, I actually like the kid, but compared to Arianne he is a zero

I like him too, but... I kinda like his "dad" more.

...and Arianne, yeah. Her too.

[Game Of Thrones]

fAegon > JonCon > Arianne