Is it possible that some houses from the Westerlands betray the Lannisters and support either Aegon, or Dany?

[Viseris The Begger]

I don't buy it, I don't buy that Tywin would march his men to the gates of King's Landing without his vassals knowing his intentions.

The army must have been prepared to storm the city as the gates were opened.

Well to be honest i don't buy it also....however according to GRRM Rhaegar marched from KL to trident in 6 days....Ned would need at least 2 days less considering he was in a hurry and Rhaegar wasn't and he had only cavalry whit him......By the time Tywin found out what happen at trident Ned was half way to reach KL....Tywin could not have been in crownlands when he found out that Rhaegar lost(- because if Rhaegar won Tywan would lose his head for that or if Rhaegar found out before battle that Tywin is behind his back he would turn his army and strike on Tywin again it would be death sentence considering Tywin only had 12k)......so by the time Tywin found out result of the battle he raced to get to KL before Ned who was already half way there...i don't think he had time to prepare the man considering they had to march day and night to get to KL before Ned.....

He could have informed them hour before the sacking(Ned was hour behind Tywin when he arrived in KL)........ but there is no other explanation if you have it i would like to read it...other way we have to consider that it's enough time to prepare........Let's not forget that Crakenhall and Westerling didn't know if Aegon would be new king whit Tywin as his hand,so i guess they didn't expect what happened

[A Man Has Said]

Has anyone noticed how the Lannisters are quite unlike other Great Houses in terms of their relationship to their bannerman, and in the makeup of their armies?

If a Stark needs to carry out any military actions, they rely exclusively on calling their banners, and the loyalty of their liege lords supplies them with troops. The same goes for the Baratheons, the Tyrells, the Arryns, the Tullys, the Martels, .. even the Greyjoys.

After the fall of the Houses of Castamere and Reyne, the Lannisters seemingly trust few of their banners, and their Red Cloak armies are MERCENARIES. Their power is the power of GOLD, not that of loyalty. Their relationship to their banners is one of subjugation behind a thinly-veiled threat of violence. Their fondness for the song, "The Rains of Castamere" serves to show just how thin that veil is.

If the Lannisters run out of money, they will have no armies at all. The lesser lords would like nothing better than to displace them.

[Trigger Warning]

They employ what? One free company and a Tyroshi sellsword that leads some freeriders. Kevan even mentions warning Jaime not to trust sellswords because they have no loyalty other than to their purse.

Their castle is also next to a large port city.

They bolster their armies with mercenaries, their armies are still mostly Westerlands levies and men at arms, nor do the princes of the West ever appear to be particularly at odds with their overlords between aGoT and Dance. They fought for them loyally even when Tywin had all the odds against him, they stayed loyal after the Whispering Wood, they stayed loyal as Renly lumbered North, they stayed loyal as the Westerlands were ravaged.

Just because you know your overlord will be ruthless if you betray him doesn't mean you only serve through fear.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Well to be honest i don't buy it also....however according to GRRM Rhaegar marched from KL to trident in 6 days....Ned would need at least 2 days less considering he was in a hurry and Rhaegar wasn't and he had only cavalry whit him......By the time Tywin found out what happen at trident Ned was half way to reach KL....Tywin could not have been in crownlands when he found out that Rhaegar lost(- because if Rhaegar won Tywan would lose his head for that or if Rhaegar found out before battle that Tywin is behind his back he would turn his army and strike on Tywin again it would be death sentence considering Tywin only had 12k)......so by the time Tywin found out result of the battle he raced to get to KL before Ned who was already half way there...i don't think he had time to prepare the man considering they had to march day and night to get to KL before Ned.....

He could have informed them hour before the sacking(Ned was hour behind Tywin when he arrived in KL)........ but there is no other explanation if you have it i would like to read it...other way we have to consider that it's enough time to prepare........Let's not forget that Crakenhall and Westerling didn't know if Aegon would be new king whit Tywin as his hand,so i guess they didn't expect what happened

Erm can I get a cite for the 6 day march?

The Trident is almost 600 miles from KL

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE#gid=1

[Daemon I Blackfyre]

If Randall Tarly was far away from KL, I bet he would be one of the first bending the knee to Aegon, as soon as the Lannisters start to go down.

[Viseris The Begger]

Erm can I get a cite for the 6 day march?

The Trident is almost 600 miles from KL

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE#gid=1

I know......That is from GRRM directly...I honestly don't know where i read it it was over a year ago. .....it is mentioned many time on this forums in the past how Rhaegar got to trident in only 6 days.......

[Rhaenys' kitten]

More likely Lancel will rally them behind the Faith.

[Lion of the West]

Has anyone noticed how the Lannisters are quite unlike other Great Houses in terms of their relationship to their bannerman, and in the makeup of their armies?

If a Stark needs to carry out any military actions, they rely exclusively on calling their banners, and the loyalty of their liege lords supplies them with troops. The same goes for the Baratheons, the Tyrells, the Arryns, the Tullys, the Martels, .. even the Greyjoys.

After the fall of the Houses of Castamere and Reyne, the Lannisters seemingly trust few of their banners, and their Red Cloak armies are MERCENARIES. Their power is the power of GOLD, not that of loyalty. Their relationship to their banners is one of subjugation behind a thinly-veiled threat of violence. Their fondness for the song, "The Rains of Castamere" serves to show just how thin that veil is.

If the Lannisters run out of money, they will have no armies at all. The lesser lords would like nothing better than to displace them.

The Lannisters relies on their bannermen for their troops just as much or little as the other Great Houses do and given that we have about no evidence or hint of betrayal even after Tywin's death and Lannister troubles pilling up, I fail to see any rebellions brewing.

[mvd10]

I don't think so, we didn't get much information about the westerland houses because they weren't really strong anyways. The houses we got the most information about are the exterminated houses lol. Ser Daven seems like a pretty decent leader also, he probably isn't mad and he probably isn't a genius either, but not all rulers need to be on the genius level to keep peace or prevent rebellions.

[TallTyrion]

I don't think the loss of Kevan and Tywin means a loss of Lannister control of the Westerlands. Daven Lannister is Warden of the West now and is more than capable of keeping his banners in line.

[Trigger Warning]

I really don't understand where this idea that the nobility of the Westerlands hate the Lannisters comes from.

[Hodor's Dragon]

It's obviously the Tyrells that Aegon & Dany need to be pitching to.

[Hodor's Dragon]

I really don't understand where this idea that the nobility of the Westerlands hate the Lannisters comes from.

It can be inferred from the fact that they're ruthless assholes that are never seen to do anything even slightly nice for anybody, unless it's profitable for them. If their power continues to drain away, they'll bleed support at the same time.

[Universal Sword Donor]

It can be inferred from the fact that they're ruthless assholes that are never seen to do anything even slightly nice for anybody, unless it's profitable for them. If their power continues to drain away, they'll bleed support at the same time.

Yeah but the Lannisters aren't assholes to the Westerlands nobles. They are the nobility equivalent of the hockey goon you only like because he's on your team.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

It can be inferred from the fact that they're ruthless assholes that are never seen to do anything even slightly nice for anybody, unless it's profitable for them. If their power continues to drain away, they'll bleed support at the same time.

Before Tywin the West was being harassed by the Ironborn and were vulnerable from the Tarbecks who were stealing land from other Western nobles. Tywin stopped that.

[TallTyrion]

It can be inferred from the fact that they're ruthless assholes that are never seen to do anything even slightly nice for anybody, unless it's profitable for them. If their power continues to drain away, they'll bleed support at the same time.

I doubt that's the view of the Westerlands nobility. The Nobles aren't expecting nice favours from their Liege Lord. They want good governance which is what Tywin provides. He keeps order and governs over the most prosperous region on the Kingdom. Apart from the Westerlings agreeing to marry Jeyne to Robb there's no indication that any of the Westerland lords are disloyal.

[Hodor's Dragon]

I doubt that's the view of the Westerlands nobility. The Nobles aren't expecting nice favours from their Liege Lord. They want good governance which is what Tywin provides. He keeps order and governs over the most prosperous region on the Kingdom. Apart from the Westerlings agreeing to marry Jeyne to Robb there's no indication that any of the Westerland lords are disloyal.

I'm also unaware of any such indication of disloyalty, which is why I said it could be "inferred."

But the Lannisters are obviously ruthless assholes. I'd have to see some evidence people like them for any reason other than that they're powerful, as opposed to having to see evidence people don't like them. People generally don't take a shine to ruthless assholes, and they'd have to be insane to actually trust the Lannisters, other than to repay a debt.

I see no reason at all to think the Lannisters have a disloyalty problem at the beginning of the story, but I would expect human nature to rear its head once they lose power, which seems to be happening. I don't think their power loss has yet to come anywhere near the point where they're unable to exert power over the region surrounding their own lands, but it might not be far off, now that there's nobody left to run things but Cersei.

[Mithras]

I think after securing the Reach, Team fAegon will go for Westerlands. They need gold to fund their campaign and CR is ready to be taken. But Dany might come by this time and Team fAegon might not be able to take CR.

[TallTyrion]

I'm also unaware of any such indication of disloyalty, which is why I said it could be "inferred."

But the Lannisters are obviously ruthless assholes. I'd have to see some evidence people like them for any reason other than that they're powerful, as opposed to having to see evidence people don't like them. People generally don't take a shine to ruthless assholes, and they'd have to be insane to actually trust the Lannisters, other than to repay a debt.

I see no reason at all to think the Lannisters have a disloyalty problem at the beginning of the story, but I would expect human nature to rear its head once they lose power, which seems to be happening. I don't think their power loss has yet to come anywhere near the point where they're unable to exert power over the region surrounding their own lands, but it might not be far off, now that there's nobody left to run things but Cersei.

Almost every Noble family is comprised of "Ruthless assholes." Hoster Tully put the entire Village of House Goodbrooke to the sword when they refused to join his rebellion. Jon Arryn marched on his own country men at Gulltown. Both those families still hold the loyalty of their Vassals.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

Actually they did...Both in DwD and Blackfyre rebellion.....In DWD they supported Aegon II instead of Rhaenyra(wrong pretender considering it was not Aegon who won)...and during Blackfyre rebellion there was civil war in Westerlands several houses sided whit Daemon......

As I recall the Grey Lion and a few other loyalist lords were defeated quite decisively by Daemon, I think that most of the Blackfyre support was from the West, reach and Riverlands. The Vale, Stormlands, dorne and the north seem to have stayed mostly loyal (except for the Yronwoods and the Sunderlands).