Knight Of Winter Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Let's say you are a foreigner who just conquered a large city. And let's say that, for whatever reason, there is a group of vigilantes randomly murdering your supporters at night. Your attempts to identify and apprehend them have been in vain so far, although you have general idea which social group they belong to. What what you do? And needless to add, let's also say that you have a conscience and don't want to murder everyone as per certain sellsword's suggestion. This is not a thread about Dany's rule in Meereen, although there will inevitably be some parallels. What I'd like to discuss is ways of dealing with Sons of Harpy and likewise groups/individuals: so far, they have appeared several times (once in Meereen and twice in Winterfell). I'd really interested in hearing ideas and opinions on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanless Mace Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 One piece of the puzzle is to work quickly to gain the support and acceptance of the population as a whole, and to turn the rebels into a negative in the public eyes. That means a huge propaganda campaign and public expenditures. It also means recognizing the value of the indigenous culture and respecting it's heritage. Next step is a big reward for info and collaboration to help defeat the insurgents. Let it be known the choice is clear- riches and significant reward for help; swift justice for those who oppose. And finally...a big TV campaign advertising shiny things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon2908 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I'd choose a Meereenese noble person who is neutral. I'd offer him/her large sums of money to join the Sons of the harpy to get information.That may be a good way to deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Well, I wouldn't have cut off the economic basis of the city to begin with. I'd try and bring leading influential members of the pre conquest ruling houses back into the political fold, offer marriages, offices, powers, gold etc. And whilst doing that I'd offer bribes to their less powerful rivals or family members that seek advancement.Reward loyal service whilst crushing dissent, seizing and redistributing assets, imprisonment, execution after show trials etc. I'd try and frame actions against me as something standing in the way of the nobility's gain and prosperity, set them against each other. Have them vie for power in the new regime instead of uniting against me to restore the old. It's still a powder keg though, cultural differences, Ghiscari pride etc. Meanwhile I'd try and re-establish trade links with the other cities in Slaver's Bay, sending gifts etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Captain Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Leave.Also this. Grab my loot and peace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singer's stew Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Either declare amnesty, recognize their rights and privileges or ... create secret police, use public executions, tortures and create such brutal terror that exterminates all those soh eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 It's hard to say since you want and don't want to talk about the Sons of the Harpy at the same time. So do the details count or not? Can I assume I'm not a moron and that I have figured out that the Green Grace is the Harpy? Also, do I want to be King of Westeros someday or all I want is Meereen? If all you want is Meereen, I guess the marrying thing isn't that bad after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 First, create a stable, reliable and most of all predictable set of laws and rigidly adhere to it. That way, people who may cooperate with me are not driven to illegal means to protect themselves and their interests. Second, create a way for all parties to lobby for themselves and don't mistreat them based on sympathy. Third, create a government that lives these ideals and offers advancement possibilites for all interested parties. Fourth, create a way to boost the economy. These four steps will cut down most of the disgruntlement and isolate the hardcore rebels from the rest of the populace. Then, intelligence can work to root them out and punish them for the deeds they personally committed.Never compromise the ideals of the first four steps while doing that. Oh, and fucking learn everything I can about every involved culture and general philosophies of governing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Discuss a plan with most trusted advisers, ie Missandei and Barristan to set a trap for Sons of the Harpy. Look at the map of the city of the attacks, and try and determine a pattern. Send a few Unsullied as bait in the part with the most attacks, and wait for the trap to spring. Also, bring dogs to track the scent of the blood of Sons of the Harpy who managed to escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozlym Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 send out a friendly invitation to them where they can choose a person to represent them in a meeting where we can discuss terms to come to a peacefull arangement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 This is how I answered this question several months ago, and it still holds. 1. I would never take hostages I wasn't willing to kill if necessary. Her first and biggest mistake.2. If the threat alone of hostages wasn't enough, I would execute a hostage. 1-to-1, though. You do a Nazi-ish 10-to-1 and you're begging for a violent insurrection. That's awful advice.3. I'd leave the pyramid and go speak with people in the city. A big issue I see is that Dany is oblivious to what's going on in her city because she chooses to isolate herself.4. I would co-opt the imagery of the Harpy for propaganda purposes. "I'm the Harpy now." I would not identify with a symbol like the dragon that the people in the city associate with subjugation and death.5. I would make every attempt to dispense justice fairly and consistently, rather than make up crimes as I go along. I would publicize this code so that everyone in the city would have access to it.6. I would appoint some sort of representative council made up of both the freedmen and the older families. I would also try to learn everything I could about the politics and the power dynamics of the city.7. I would make every possible effort to identify revenue streams and economic potential from non-slavery sources. Start building up agriculture, but in the meantime, use the brainpower of the merchant class (like Xaro's friend who's wasted digging bean ditches) to turn Meereen's surrendered wealth into the basis of a banking economy or something similar. Basically any sort of industry that doesn't immediately rely on raw materials or advanced agriculture. You can also use this wealth to patronize the creative class and commission public works to keep people employed. Make the most out of available human capital. Commissioning, say, a new temple built with emancipated and compensated labor can be both an employment opportunity for skilled laborers and a psychological boon to you as a figurehead.8. Guerrilla attacks cannot be stopped through conventional means. It's a PR battle. So I would have to make the PR case, through propaganda, fair laws, economic development, etc., that my government is superior to the insurrectionists' agenda.ETA: In terms of the big picture, you can achieve more with soft power, consistent jurisprudence and economic opportunity than you can with brutality. It's not worth creating some hard-ass police state if everyone living there hates your guts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 First, create a stable I was thinking... "why do you need horses?" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Not the first time I pimp these essays: http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-i-who-poisoned-the-locusts/ The crux of the arguments is that Dany had achieved peace after the marriage with Hizdar and the Sons of the Harpy were at least going to give it a shot. It's likely not the Sons of the Harpy who poisoned the locust but rather the Shavepate because he was losing power. He then manipulated Barristan into 'Tyrioning' Hizdar and thus break the peace, leading to a renewal of the hostilities. Add the fact that Dany herself, disgruntled with every sacrifice she had made to achieve the peace, refused to make one by letting Drogon be put down (a symbol of war if ever there was one) and left the city on her spirit quest instead of staying the course. In other words, peace was more or less achieved with many sacirfice and compromise but it's the 'good guys' themselves who scuttled it because war is seductive and peace is hard. Really, I encourage you to read those essays, they're as insightful as anything I've read on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Apple Martini's and BBE's suggestions are all good.I'd add that patient detective work will be more effective at rooting out the insurrection than allowing your chief of police to torture who he likes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 In addition to what Apple said, I would be the one in the first place to open the fighting pits. In fact, I would seize the fighting pits and give the ownership of them to the city. It would serve as great distraction and relief for the Meereenese people and a good income for the state. Of course Dany would have allowed only grown up free men to risk their lives for gold and glory. No folly fights, no disgusting atrocities. But of course, she should make sure that no one is forced to fight in the pits because of poverty, debts etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor the Articulate Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I'd share my bowel of honeyed locusts with the nobles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Song so Sweet Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I would go for the "righteous tyrant" approach, 3 simultaneous policies. 1) Take turns in imprisoning small groups of affiliated noblemen/ women, in an algorithmic way. Other powergroups too, it doesn't have to be only nobles. Small group = a 10th of all the nobles for example. Keep them for, let's say, two or three weeks.If the killings stop, release them.If the killings start again during the next turn, imprison them again. (Otherwise they are guilty)If they start again, keep them in custody and imprison another group. (Otherwise they are guilty).If this leads to having half the nobles in prison and the killings continue, then release them and imprison the other half.Something like that, I don't have the whole system figured out but a system can exist where in a few months you can gradually find the guilty ones by the process of elimination without having to kill any innocent people. I would start with the Green Grace and continue with the most suspicious powergroups. 2) Gather intelligence and investigate using ex-slave spies. No undercover bullshit, no bribes, but having eyes and ears everywhere. 3) Increase the police to catch those responsible for the killings so they can eventually lead you to their leader. The unsullied would Essentially a police approach to a crime problem, not a political solution, which would of course be important but completely seperate to the actual killings IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 This is how I answered this question several months ago, and it still holds. Not bad. When dealing with insurrections, you need to follow "the principle of legitimacy' which is based on three things: 1. People who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice. Giving members of the Great Masters seats in a government would make them feel they have a voice. 2. The law has to be predictable, the rules of tomorrow are going to be the same as the rules of today. Crucifying 163 slavers for 163 regardless of who was actually responsible, and yet letting two freedmen get away with rape and murder makes the law look chaotic and unpredictable. 3. The authority has to be fair, not treat one group differently form another. The above example of Dany crucifying slavers while simultaneously not punishing two men for rape and murder along with other things made the Great Masters think the authority is unfair (never mind their government was biased towards them and against slaves). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulthosian Stark Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Burn the city to the ground and head for Westeros where things aren't so fucked up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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