I don't think Shaggydog killed a unicorn.

[White Ravens]

I don't think that he killed a unicorn either for various reasons. A. I think that he killed something like that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicorn#mediaviewer/File:Oryx_gazella_(unicorn).jpg or a goat who had lost one horn. B. Because houses Brax, Rogers, Doggett and Wydman (Brax's purple one) have a unicorn as their sigil so we know how the unicorns are in Westeros, like horses with a horm. C. I don't want him to have killed a unicorn because according to folklore the person who kills a unicorn is cursed.

Even if unicorn folklore applies in Westeros and even if I'm wrong about the goat there still might not be repercussions because it was Shaggydog that did the killing(a beast killing another beast) and not Rickon.

[Davosthumb]

Do we? I though one of the pieces of evidence used to argue Rickon being on Skagos was that Shaggy killed a unicorn. Seems some people are using Rickon being on Skagos to argue that Shaggy killed a unicorn.

I never was too happy with the idea that Osha would walk across half the north with a young child and a direwolf, go though or near Bolton lands when the hue and cry is out for them and then try and take a boat to a cannibal-infested island. It seems too great a task and they would be far too conspicuous.

Also, Osha knows what is coming from up north, she and the other wildlings / NW deserters were fleeing from the Others & the wights so it seems odd that she would have a change of heart turn right back round and head north again. Particularly with a young child to look after.

Check the map for how far north she would be heading from Winterfell. Much better to head to The Neck, tell Howland his kids are okay and find a sure refuge there?

http://barbariana.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Map1-1_The_North_AGOT.jpg

This is really insightful. And a little incitING with respect to Osha's intelligence or, maybe at worst an attack on her character consistency. Why Skagos with what she knows is coming? That is REALLY far north to go...almost as far north as Bran goes to the wall...why not stick together on the road a bit longer.

Going North seems counter to everything she, as a Wildling, knows. Has she been told something about Skagos being, 'the place to be for Rickon?'

IIRC, it is confirmed in the app that Rickon is at Skagos.

Well I guess that seals it. Maybe Osha IS just inconsistent in her conviction to stay south then.

[maarsen]

Here is what shaggydog really likes to eat.

http://a.tgcdn.net/images/products/zoom/e5a7_canned_unicorn_meat.jpg

[Endac]

I don't think that anyone say that unicorn don't exist, just that Shaggy didn't killed one.

I doubt that, he probably did. GRRM put too much effort into little details for it not too sound like it is.

also on a side note.... a direwolf verses a goat... really? you guys do realize the huge difference between a unicorn being able to injure a direwolf as apposed to a goat.

I don't recall anything in the books stating that the goats are monstrous creatures able to stand up against direwolves.

theoretically yes. I goat could harm a direwolf.... logically? no. Wolves don't charge headlong into a hunt anyways, they are smarter than that.

the only plausible answer of a direwolf on a hunt getting injured in a situation like this is if the said hunted is a powerful animal capable of turning a situation, and in this case, said unicorn makes sense.

[ChillyPolly]

Has Shaggydog ever eaten people?

Someone should make a list of the people-eaters in the stories.

[DreamSongs]

In Jon's first chapter in Dance he has a dream/vision where he sees the activities of the other Direwolves. "A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat, washing the blood from his side where the goat's long horn had raked him". That is all we have to go on to make the assumption that the goat is a unicorn.

To me this simply indicates that the goat only used one of its two horns to injure Shaggydog. I looked at news reports involving bullfighting and it is quite common to use the singular word "horn" when describing how bulls injure matadors. As in... "Spanish bull fighter suffers horrific injury as bull's horn enters beneath the chin and comes out of mouth."

One sentence has led many readers to consider it almost canon that Shaggydog killed a unicorn and that the unicorn has the appearance of a one-horned goat. It even shows up in the Wiki entry on Shaggydog. "He is seen in a vision of Ghost, fighting a goat with one long horn (a unicorn)."

So. What do you all think? Do you believe in goat unicorns or are you a skeptic like me?

Blasphemy! :p

[fuem]

Has Shaggydog ever eaten people?

Someone should make a list of the people-eaters in the stories.

Biter

end of list

[ChillyPolly]

Biter

end of list

Not even close:

Manderly

Drogon

Viserion

Rhaegal

Bran

I'm sure there are more.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Not even close:

Manderly

Drogon

Viserion

Rhaegal

Bran

I'm sure there are more.

Absolutely: A good bit of Stannis's host...

[the trees have eyes]

I doubt that, he probably did. GRRM put too much effort into little details for it not too sound like it is.

also on a side note.... a direwolf verses a goat... really? you guys do realize the huge difference between a unicorn being able to injure a direwolf as apposed to a goat.

I don't recall anything in the books stating that the goats are monstrous creatures able to stand up against direwolves.

theoretically yes. I goat could harm a direwolf.... logically? no. Wolves don't charge headlong into a hunt anyways, they are smarter than that.

the only plausible answer of a direwolf on a hunt getting injured in a situation like this is if the said hunted is a powerful animal capable of turning a situation, and in this case, said unicorn makes sense.

But any animal with horns is dangerous if not tackled carefully. Lionesses occasionally get killed by buffalo, etc..

And as for goats: sadly a hiker was killed by a mountain goat in Olympic NP a few years ago.

http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/mountain-goat-kills-hiker-after-years-of-hazing-by-park-rangers.html

Horns are dangerous and any animal fighting for its life doubly so. A puncture wound can cause major internal bleeding. Shaggy doesn't seem badly hurt but he was in a fight with a large, fierce and desperate animal.

Could be a unicorn, could be a goat.

[How I Met Your Hodor]

Not even close:

Manderly

Drogon

Viserion

Rhaegal

Bran

I'm sure there are more.

also everyone with Bran (except coldhands and his elk), basically everyone at Ramsays Wedding obviously including Manderly, a few from Stannis' army, biter, Vargo and all the other prithonerth in Harrenhal (they're all fed bitth of Vargo right?) Shit this is becoming quite a list... oh yeah and a whole lot of people in Astapor

[Endac]

But any animal with horns is dangerous if not tackled carefully. Lionesses occasionally get killed by buffalo, etc..

And as for goats: sadly a hiker was killed by a mountain goat in Olympic NP a few years ago.

http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/mountain-goat-kills-hiker-after-years-of-hazing-by-park-rangers.html

Horns are dangerous and any animal fighting for its life doubly so. A puncture wound can cause major internal bleeding. Shaggy doesn't seem badly hurt but he was in a fight with a large, fierce and desperate animal.

Could be a unicorn, could be a goat.

You are still missing my point. A direwolf, which is bigger than a man, and much more powerful, is not going to have a problem with a goat. it is nonsensical and I think many people are missing that point.

Regular wolves primary prey is elk, deer, moose, and other big creatures with HORNS much bigger than a goats, ALL of these creatures are bigger than a goat, Take note of this, especially the fact that we are talking about regular wolves.

NOW think about a direwolf.

Nuff said.

But in all seriousness this is something you should take into consideration. A goat just doesn't fit.

also I did say theoretically the goat can inflict and injury on a direwolf.

logically though? no/

[Lady Fevre Dream]

You are still missing my point. A direwolf, which is bigger than a man, and much more powerful, is not going to have a problem with a goat. it is nonsensical and I think many people are missing that point.

Regular wolves primary prey is elk, deer, moose, and other big creatures with HORNS much bigger than a goats, ALL of these creatures are bigger than a goat, Take note of this, especially the fact that we are talking about regular wolves.

NOW think about a direwolf.

Nuff said.

But in all seriousness this is something you should take into consideration. A goat just doesn't fit.

also I did say theoretically the goat can inflict and injury on a direwolf.

logically though? no/

Eh, but most wolves hunt in a pack. It's the one on one part of the Shaggydog equation which makes it easier for him to be hurt by his prey, IMO, be it unicorn or goat.

[How I Met Your Hodor]

You are still missing my point. A direwolf, which is bigger than a man, and much more powerful, is not going to have a problem with a goat. it is nonsensical and I think many people are missing that point.

Regular wolves primary prey is elk, deer, moose, and other big creatures with HORNS much bigger than a goats, ALL of these creatures are bigger than a goat, Take note of this, especially the fact that we are talking about regular wolves.

NOW think about a direwolf.

Nuff said.

But in all seriousness this is something you should take into consideration. A goat just doesn't fit.

also I did say theoretically the goat can inflict and injury on a direwolf.

logically though? no/

The text says an "enormous goat", so its a big wolf vs. a big goat then so the size is unimportant (if everyones big, no-one is - to paraphrase Syndrome)

in order for Shaggy to have killed this massive goat he's gonna need to get within range of the horn(s) as he's hunting by himself, could be that Shaggy made a small mistake, or could be that he caught the goat creature and got grazed during the animals inevitable thrashing and squirming once it was caught

[ChillyPolly]

And as for goats: sadly a hiker was killed by a mountain goat in Olympic NP a few years ago.

http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/mountain-goat-kills-hiker-after-years-of-hazing-by-park-rangers.html

An American "mountain goat" is not really a "goat" except in name. There are 9 species of "capra" (goat) but the "mountain goat" is not one of them. American "mountain goats" are very large animals (up to 300 pounds or more), and the design of their horns is rather different (to my eyes, they look much more deadly and useful for fighting). They are a type of "goat" in much the same sense that a "unicorn" might be a type of goat - i.e., not necessarily really a "goat" at all - just a horned, bearded mammal.

[Endac]

An American "mountain goat" is not really a "goat" except in name. There are 9 species of "capra" (goat) but the "mountain goat" is not one of them. American "mountain goats" are very large animals (up to 300 pounds or more), and the design of their horns is rather different (to my eyes, they look much more deadly and useful for fighting). They are a type of "goat" in much the same sense that a "unicorn" might be a type of goat - i.e., not necessarily really a "goat" at all - just a horned, bearded mammal.

I can agree with this.

[Hrafntýr]

An American "mountain goat" is not really a "goat" except in name. There are 9 species of "capra" (goat) but the "mountain goat" is not one of them. American "mountain goats" are very large animals (up to 300 pounds or more), and the design of their horns is rather different (to my eyes, they look much more deadly and useful for fighting). They are a type of "goat" in much the same sense that a "unicorn" might be a type of goat - i.e., not necessarily really a "goat" at all - just a horned, bearded mammal.

But some of those species of true wild goats are larger than regular wolves, and have formidable horns; I wouldn't want to approach an ibex! And Bran in SoS did mention seeing "pale goats moving along the mountainsides." So we don't have to imagine a "goat-like animal that might just as well be called a unicorn."

[ETA: Bran and co. were possibly traveling just west, or maybe northwest, of Umber territory at the time when he spotted the pale goats; it was the chapter where they meet the Liddle, before they reach Queenscrown; it's hard to get a precise location, of course!]

[Endac]

I am all for it being a goat if in Westeros they have big mountain goats. Is skagos mountainous? that could be a possibility... Wolves are pack hunters, and a one on one confrontation could very well injure the Direwolf, especially with an animal of that size.

As for it possibly just being a goat? I doubt that, since goat horns are hardly a threat when you put it in comparison to most other horned animals.

I only believe it to be a unicorn because I can't think of anything else that would put up much of a fight. I am open to all ideas though.....

Just not a goat =\

[Arya Havinfun]

Has Shaggydog ever eaten people?

Someone should make a list of the people-eaters in the stories.

Don't know that it counts as "eating", but Shaggydog bit Maester Luwin pretty badly down in the crypts. Luwin complained that Shaggy had attacked other humans before him as well.

[Arya Havinfun]

I am all for it being a goat if in Westeros they have big mountain goats. Is skagos mountainous? that could be a possibility... Wolves are pack hunters, and a one on one confrontation could very well injure the Direwolf, especially with an animal of that size.

As for it possibly just being a goat? I doubt that, since goat horns are hardly a threat when you put it in comparison to most other horned animals.

I only believe it to be a unicorn because I can't think of anything else that would put up much of a fight. I am open to all ideas though.....

Just not a goat =\

Coulda been unicorn, or it coulda been a stag. A stag killed Shaggydog's mom.