Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Rhaenys_Targaryen

[TWOIAF Spoilers] Inconsistency or Intentional?

Recommended Posts

Ran, would you be able to confirm when Stannis was born, by any chance?



Robert was born in 262AC, and Stannis is described in the main series as "a bare year younger", which would most logically place Stannis' birth in 263AC.


Yet in the beginning of Clash, Stannis is still 34 years old. If I've understood it correctly, the prologue of Clash (in which Stannis' age is described) is supposed to take place in early 299AC. But being 34 years old in 299AC would place Stannis' birth in either early 265AC (having turned 34 that year) or in 264AC (to be turning 35 later that year).



So, was Stannis thus born in 264AC (which would probably indicate that Stannis' birth occured rather early in the year 264AC, and Robert's later in 262AC, placing their births slightly more than a year apart), or 263AC (in which case, the red comet appears in the sky above Westeros in 298AC, and not 299AC, as most people on the forum seem to have concluded, as far as I can tell)?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

George's family tree has him placed at 264 AC, Robert at 262 AC.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Banfred" is never referenced in AFfC. That was the erroneous transliteration of someone reporting from GRRM's reading of the Conquest. It was always Manfred Hightower.

Is there a similar error with Denys / Alyn Marbrand (father of Jeyne Marbrand) from the ConCarolinas Westerlands Reading?

Although they don't sound similar...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the issue?



Ah, I see. Yes, George switched name midstream in his original Westerlands material. We've gone with Alyn Marbrand as the correct name.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said, George switched names on Jeyne's father in the middle of the file. Denys at one point, Alyn at another. We went with Alyn as the proper name.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the issue?

Ah, I see. Yes, George switched name midstream in his original Westerlands material. We've gone with Alyn Marbrand as the correct name.

Cool, cool. Thanks.

Just reading the Baratheon section and one of the sidebars makes reference to a knight called the Stormbreaker who isn't reference anywhere else in the book.

Would he happen to be the same Stormbreaker from the Conquest of Dorne MUSH? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if this is an inconsistency.



When the War of the Ninepenny Kings started, Tywin is a newly-made knight and Steffon & Aerys are squires. They fought together throughout the war.



Ormund Baratheon is said to have died at the beginning of the war (260AC) in the arms of his son, Ser Steffon Baratheon.



So was Steffon (14ish in 260AC) knighted almost straight away (by whoever, in the wake of his father’s death) and Aerys (16 in 261AC) had to wait a further year before Tywin dubbed him a knight? Was Steffon a remarkable warrior at that age compared to the less martial Aerys who had to prove himself?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On page 202, Stafford Lannister is mentioned as "the eldest son and heir of Lord Tytos's late brother, Ser Jason". According to the information from the Westerlands reading that didn't make it into the book and the Lannister family tree, Jason's first marriage to Alys Stackspear resulted in a son, Damon, while Stafford, Joanna and their unnamed siblings are Jason's children by his second wife, Marla Prester. Even if Damon was deceased by the time Stafford is mentioned as Jason's heir, he had a son of his own, Damion (who is mentioned as still being alive, along with his children, in the appendixes from the books). So, is this a mistake, or was the order of Jason's marriages switched around, making Stafford his oldest son?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a question Ran, what does this refer to?








"Nettles and the Sheepstealer vanished before the war’s end,


and none could say where they went until years after."




Do we have an account of Nettles years after the dance?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read the chapter about the Vale ;) There's a fire witch in there

Funny thought: If Nettles was pregnant when she left Prince Daemon, and her son was one of the founders of the Burned Men...All of the Burned Men would be descended from her by now, and hence, secret Targaryens.

Timett is a secret Targaryen. Everybody is a secret Targaryen!

At this point almost any character could be a potential dragonrider! :laugh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read the chapter about the Vale ;) There's a fire witch in there

I have, I did not make any connection to Nettles, but I'll check it again tonight, thanks :)

Funny thought: If Nettles was pregnant when she left Prince Daemon, and her son was one of the founders of the Burned Men...All of the Burned Men would be descended from her by now, and hence, secret Targaryens.

Timett is a secret Targaryen. Everybody is a secret Targaryen!

At this point almost any character could be a potential dragonrider! :laugh:

Jon is the ONLY 'Secret Targaryen'. Geez this term gets thrown around way too much.

Tyrion is a bastard, fAegon is a Blackfyre.

And anyone else who has Targaryen blood through some ancient marriage, generations back, is not a Targaryen, they are a member of their own respective houses with their own last names. Although, yes there could be some random people in Westeros with 'Blood of the Dragon', IMHO the only possibilities are BBP, Tolands (maybe) and the Baratheons, as they are the only ones with Targaryen blood from 3 or less generations. I really don't think, for the purposes of story-telling, that someone like Quentyn, who is at least 6 generations from the 1st Daenerys has enough Targaryen blood to make any difference.....that's just what I think.

However, I am seriously interested in the Toland family, there are minor details about them in WOIAF, but I saw nothing that would explain where they get dragon blood from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do we have an account of Nettles years after the dance?

But, I don't think she was discovered in the Vale, however. There's something to be added for after the winter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have, I did not make any connection to Nettles, but I'll check it again tonight, thanks :)

Jon is the ONLY 'Secret Targaryen'. Geez this term gets thrown around way too much.

Tyrion is a bastard, fAegon is a Blackfyre.

And anyone else who has Targaryen blood through some ancient marriage, generations back, is not a Targaryen, they are a member of their own respective houses with their own last names. Although, yes there could be some random people in Westeros with 'Blood of the Dragon', IMHO the only possibilities are BBP, Tolands (maybe) and the Baratheons, as they are the only ones with Targaryen blood from 3 or less generations. I really don't think, for the purposes of story-telling, that someone like Quentyn, who is at least 6 generations from the 1st Daenerys has enough Targaryen blood to make any difference.....that's just what I think.

However, I am seriously interested in the Toland family, there are minor details about them in WOIAF, but I saw nothing that would explain where they get dragon blood from.

Bastardry is subjetive. Most Westerosi would consider any child of Rhaegar and Lyanna a bastard, for example, because they don't accept polygamy. And I'm not sure dragons care about legitimacy; they allowed the dragonseeds to ride them.

The point is, there is dragonrider's blood spread all around Westeros and all around the World:

-Noble houses that intermarried with the Targaryens (Plumms, Velaryons, Martells, Baratheons...etc.), and people descended from those (too many to count).

-Common bastards born from members of said families.

-All Baratheons and all people who carry their blood.

-People descended from Aegon IV's many bastards, Blackfyres included.

-People descended from Aerion Brightflame's bastards.

-Dragonseeds from Dragonstone, people in Dragonstone descended from dragonseeds (all of them, at this point), people in other locations around Blackwater Bay descended from Dragonstone folk.

-Other Targaryen bastards (Longwaters, for example).

-The Burned Men.

-Lysene and Volantene who happen to have a dragonrider ancestor.

...etc.

And Brown Ben Plumm showed us that dragons are able to perceive even a remote drop of dragonrider's blood. Yes, Quentyn got burnt when he approached somebody else's dragon, but that happened to Alyn Velaryon too, and he had a good deal of dragonrider blood (his brother and his father were dragonriders).

In short, you can't throw a stone without hitting in the head somebody with the potential to become a dragonrider.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bastardry is subjetive. Most Westerosi would consider any child of Rhaegar and Lyanna a bastard, for example, because they don't accept polygamy. And I'm not sure dragons care about legitimacy; they allowed the dragonseeds to ride them.

The point is, there is dragonrider's blood spread all around Westeros and all around the World:

-Noble houses that intermarried with the Targaryens (Plumms, Velaryons, Martells...etc.), and people descended from those (too many to count).

-Common bastards born from members of said families.

-All Baratheons and all people who carry their blood.

-People descended from Aegon IV's many bastards, Blackfyres included.

-People descended from Aerion Brightflame's bastards.

-Dragonseeds from Dragonstone, people in Dragonstone descended from dragonseeds (all of them, at this point), people in other locations around Blackwater Bay descended from Dragonstone folk.

-Other Targaryen bastards (Longwaters, for example).

-The Burned Men.

-Lysene and Volantene who happen to have a dragonrider ancestor.

...etc.

And Brown Ben Plumm showed us that dragons are able to perceive even a remote drop of dragonrider's blood.

In short, you can't throw a stone without hitting in the head somebody with the potential to become a dragonrider.

I agree, I just think you need more than 'one drop', not only that, but the 'right drop' (meaning some full-blood Targs still cannot ride/bond with a dragon).... BBP possibly has 2 great grandparents on one side who are both Targs, that would make him 1/4 Targ, closer than almost anyone else living besides Jon (and Tyrion). Eleana Targaryen is confirmed by the woiaf and Tyrion is very certain that Eleana slept with another Targ prince and not Ossifer Plumm to make Viserys Plumm, that BBP actually has no 'PLumm' in him.

Also there is this to consider. The three dragons that Dany hatched started a new line of dragons, as all the old ones had died out. Which means that all the old blood-connections the Targaryens had with their original line of Valyrian Dragons also died out when the dragons went extinct.

I think, and many agree with me, that when Dany hatched the eggs in the fire, she was preforming the same ritual that the ancient Valyrian Targaryens preformed when first binding their dragons to their family. Hence all the incest to keep their blood pure, so the bond with their own dragons would stay strong. All the 40 dragonlord families did this to keep their own families' dragons seperate from other families and to make sure no one could steal one of their dragons.

So when Dany walked into the pyre and hatched Drogon, Viserion and Rhaegal she was beginning a new line of dragons bonded to her and her blood and the blood of her descendants or family members who share blood with her specifically, not all Targaryens, just her. So when looking for potential dragon riders it makes sense to look for people who are closely related to her specifically, Jon, Tyrion and BBP and Stannis all fit the bill as 'close' relations. fAegon would be very very far removed from Dany on the family tree, their common ancestor is Aegon IV, who is 6 or 7 generations back from fAegon (probably) and 7 generations back from Dany (confirmed). So he would share the most miniscule, tiniest, little percentage of blood with Dany, basically nothing. Which is why, personally, I think the dragons reaction to fAegon will be equal to a paternity test. (IMO, of course)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×