Jon Snow IS Dead

[Darth Tywin]

I find it really hard to believe that GRRM would spend so much time building up a character with events like being Ned's "bastard", finding the sixth direwolf pup, joining the NW, gaining a valyrian steel sword, building a relationship with tyrion, building a trust with the wildlings, un-tapped warg potential, becoming lord commander, building a weird relationship with Mel, and having weird dreams a lot. Then have him die at the hands of Bowen Marsh, but not confirm the death so you have to wait years to find out.

He is still alive and this failed attempt will either be a way to give him some loop hole to restore the Starks of Winterfell or further solidfy himself as head honcho on the wall.

[Red Wedding Cake]

I would be fine with Jon Snow's death. There are far too many POVs, I just want to see it end instead of expanding so much. I'm drowning in subjective details with every new character. What's the end game?

[UtherSnow]

I've said this before but it's worth repeating once more. They are important and significant words.

Before Aemon leaves The Wall, he gives Jon some words of advice. "Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born." Those are the same words, more or less, that Aemon said to Egg (Aegon) just before setting off for The Wall.

Basically, Aemon was telling both to step up their game.

There was something else with Jon as well. The section for him to read from The Jade Compendium. That related the tale of Azor Ahai.

Aemon leaves Jon with these words: "Knowledge is a weapon, Jon. Arm yourself well before riding into battle."

Jon has taken a very literal use of Aemon's words. What's the reaction going to be when Jon comes back from the dead?

Start with Mel. Is she likely to miss seeing blood covering stars on a dead guy's tunic? I don't think so. That's going to be her first cue. She'll ask to see Jon's body. (You could make that 'demand' instead of 'ask' as well, if Selyse is standing close, perhaps with some of her Queensguard too.) Is she going to miss the tracks of tears on Bowen's face?

What's Ghost going to be up to? (Probably being prompted by Jon's presence.) Can't anyone see Ghost standing guard over Jon? (I'd see that happening whether or nor Jon had warged over.) It's a natural thing to expect to see. People won't instantly forget that Jon and Ghost are close.

You've got all that's needed for Mel to resurrect Jon there. She may even add the smoke and salt in some magic she'll perform. Can't you imagine how those seeing Mel bring Jon back to life will react?

Another scenario I see as possible is if Jon's body was taken to the ice-cells. If Jon manages to re-emerge from Ghost in time, and he's stood there when Mel is brought to see..... How would you feel in certain boots at Castle Black?

The way I'm seeing this play out, I think Jon's going to leave behind something of his old self with Ghost. He'll bring some of Ghost back across which will see Jon become the man. Ghost and Jon will be closer than they've ever been before.

Before anyone says it, I am not advocating that Jon becomes a werewolf (or were-direwolf). Jon will become more of a predator though.

[The Sword of the Darkness]

Crazy thought. Jon's body gone, unable to come back (not crazy i actually believe that), but then he wargs into ghost, finds Bran, wargs into Hodar to help Bran. BOOM!

[shadow282]

It really doesn't matter. Even if he is dead, he isn't DEAD dead. Some stuff will happen and he'll be back in his body at some point either late WoW or early next book. Otherwise the character and the whole R+L=J mystery has been pointless.

[scotcat]

Even if he is dead, I very much doubt he'll stay that way for long. I could be way off the mark though- he could be dead, dead. But I doubt it.

At the end of the day, threads like this are going to keep popping up until WoW is released and we get an answer, whatever it ends up being.

[sj4iy]

Crazy thought. Jon's body gone, unable to come back (not crazy i actually believe that), but then he wargs into ghost, finds Bran, wargs into Hodar to help Bran. BOOM!

Wargs can't 'jump' from one second life to another. Varamyr Sixskins tells us that.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

What about that vision Bran had of Jon having all the warmth leave his body? It could just be that he's extremely cold because they thought he was dead and put him in an ice cell, but that could also mean that he is dead. I hope not.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

I remember a passage from Alayne's point of view whereas Little Robert Arryn is starting to shake and Alayne knows she cannot afford to wait to cross the little icy patch when they're descending from the Eyrie where all the sudden she switches back to being SANSA and its Sansa who thinks that the wind sounds like a wolf, a GHOST WOLF as big as a MOUNTAIN.

Now, if Ghost has the power to project himself to Sansa from the Wall to the Eyrie to give her the kind of courage it takes to pull something like this off, I think Ghost could help Jon even if he isn't right there with him. When, or if, Jon says, Ghost, to me, he may be so powerful a Warg or being helped so powerfully by Bran that the attackers do not survive.

After she is safely across the icy land strip with Robert, it switches back to Alayne's POV. This is something I didn't catch on my first read as well. Oh, this is from AFFCs.

[PrettyPig]

IMO Jon is going to be Coldhands-dead. Sentient dead, if you like. GRRM set it up nicely with Ghost (warg host) and the ice cells (where Jon is expecting dead men to rise again). The corpses currently chilling in the cells have yet to reanimate, but it was also noted that the corpses were bound with iron chains - we learn earlier that supposedly the iron swords in the crypts of Winterfell serves to keep the Kings from wandering around, so my thought is that the IRON, not the ice magic of the Wall, is keeping the cell bodies from turning.

If Jon "dies" and is placed in the cells but is not bound with iron, his corpse may rise....but if his spirit lives on in Ghost, he could return to reinhabit his own dead body. I believe this is the starting point of Jon's "dark road" that he has yet to walk.

[Jez Targaryen]

I would be shocked if Jon actually dies (dead-dead).

I don't particularly like the un-dead thing, and if it was somehow a 'fake' Jon that got stabbed that would just be ridiculous. I'm hoping that either Wun Wun or some of the wildlings step in and save him from actually dying, so that in fact he was just seriously wounded.

[Jez Targaryen]

Maybe he didn't feel the last blow because Wun Wun was picking the guy up and crushing his skull, so the blow never fell.

[TheWolfHeart]

How would jons death contribute to the story? Neds death sparked the war. Tywins death led to tyrions adventure and the breakdown of cersei. Jon is too important of a character and I don't see where the fallout would be to equal his death.

[Love Is A Sweet Poison]

Jon Snow will not stay dead. He is central to the story. He is there to save the Stark family from extinction.

Remember Book 1? Jon Snow is the one who is responsible for saving the direwolf pack.

Dead or not, his story is not over...the wolves still need healing...and winter is coming

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

I would be shocked if Jon actually dies (dead-dead).

I don't particularly like the un-dead thing, and if it was somehow a 'fake' Jon that got stabbed that would just be ridiculous. I'm hoping that either Wun Wun or some of the wildlings step in and save him from actually dying, so that in fact he was just seriously wounded.

I'm with you on all of this. I don't want any more Un-deads running around. The only thing that is going to satisfy me is if he is seriously wounded but able to survive. I would even be ok with Mel having to whip up some kind of magic to help heal him but not to resurrect him.

ETA: I do think maybe there is something to what PrettyPig said about the iron. I never thought of that, nice catch. I still hope Jon does not return to the story as UnJon though.

[TimJames]

People have survived worse.

Jon's brother Bran fell from a height that should have killed him, but he still lived.

I think that Jon still has a story to complete, but there is no doubt in my mind that his injuries will leave him bedridden for months and will take years to heal.

[farm_ecology]

The whole "you think they're dead but they aren't really" trick has been played far too many times.

The only way i can think of that would be a satisfactory way for him to live would be inside snow. So long as there is no way to return to his body.

I mean seriously, for a series which supposedly prides itself on a sense of danger, nobody thinks anyone will die.

[GrammarYatzy]

Jon snow is the main character of ASOIF. It's pretty unlikely he is going to die with 2 books to go isn't it?

GRRM has epically telegraphed Jon and Danny more than anything else in the books. There's basically 2 types of fans at this point: Those who accept the cliches and those who are so bummed they are in denial.

Basically GRRM would be throwing out a ton of his "forshadowing" if jon was dead. I'd say to the point that "jon is dead' theories are crackpot.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

I remember a passage from Alayne's point of view whereas Little Robert Arryn is starting to shake and Alayne knows she cannot afford to wait to cross the little icy patch when they're descending from the Eyrie where all the sudden she switches back to being SANSA and its Sansa who thinks that the wind sounds like a wolf, a GHOST WOLF as big as a MOUNTAIN.

I have to amend this statement I wrote yesterday after reading the passage again and thinking about, or over thinking about it: Instead of what I wrote I would like to say this instead:

Alayne's point of view switches to Sansa's and she hears the wind howling so fiercely it sounds like a wolf, a GHOST wolf as big as a mountain. I now think instead of Jon's Ghost reaching out to help protect her, it was actually the actual ghost of her own direwolf Lady. I'm not sure which way is correct, but, it seems to me that these wolves are more powerful than anyone gives them credit for, except Melisandre he warns Jon to keep Ghost near him and not to turn away her friendship because he may have dire need of her very soon.

After she is safely across the icy land strip with Robert, it switches back to Alayne's POV. This is something I didn't catch on my first read as well. Oh, this is from AFFCs.

[Kyoshi]

The blasphemy in the title of this thread alone! Shame on you, OP! SHAME!

I'm kidding of course. On my part, I'm just in serious denial because he's my favourite character. Secondly, it makes little sense for him to be killed at this point. Thirdly, the George promised us Jon would know the identity of his mother [and father], so unless he's living I don't see how that would go down exactly.

Finally, it would be pretty disappointing, the doomed hero arc has been demonstrated quite a few times already. There really is no need for the George to hammer it in. We get it by now--life is not a song.