Is it implausible to believe that the Others built the Wall?

[Dorian Martell]

Like I said - the only human I've read them kill on page was Royce. In the show they killed 2 humans - but in the book thee wright of Royce killed that other dude.

The only reasons the humans in the book and most readers are so certain they are evil is because of Long Night mythology.

Here's the thing - I consider the books and show as telling the same story. I see it as this story is being told by 3 people now, GRRM & D&D. So I see nothing at all wrong with combining information from multiple sources to derive a conclusion. I think either book or show preference is stupid at this stage - because they have pretty much melded into the one big story universe.

Others kill Waymar> Others make wights>Wights kill people> therefore the others are responsible for killing lots of people. End of story. To somehow say that the others are misunderstood because they only cut down one person in a pov is ignoring the others chasing and killing the watch on the run from the fist or the army of undead that is sent against the watch, and all of the dead that rise in the midsts of the wildling hosts. So far, the others have been shown to do nothing but exterminate life and warmth. This is what the reader is shown, why the wildlings are trying to escape south of the wall and since the beginning, the set up as the ultimate antagonist. Others are EVIL. It does not in any way negate the evil of humanity, but they are still evil

As for the books and the TV show, they have diverged to such a degree in the last season there is no way at this point to combine the two. Talisa, and Locke instead of Jeyne and Vargo, Jon being aware of bran north of the wall, no coldhands, Jamie raping his sister, Shae being somehow more that just a gold digging whore, the whole redux of crasters keep, all these things make them as separate as separate can be.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

It was built by blood magic.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Others kill Waymar> Others make wights>Wights kill people> therefore the others are responsible for killing lots of people. End of story. To somehow say that the others are misunderstood because they only cut down one person in a pov is ignoring the others chasing and killing the watch on the run from the fist or the army of undead that is sent against the watch, and all of the dead that rise in the midsts of the wildling hosts. So far, the others have been shown to do nothing but exterminate life and warmth. This is what the reader is shown, why the wildlings are trying to escape south of the wall and since the beginning, the set up as the ultimate antagonist. Others are EVIL. It does not in any way negate the evil of humanity, but they are still evil

As for the books and the TV show, they have diverged to such a degree in the last season there is no way at this point to combine the two. Talisa, and Locke instead of Jeyne and Vargo, Jon being aware of bran north of the wall, no coldhands, Jamie raping his sister, Shae being somehow more that just a gold digging whore, the whole redux of crasters keep, all these things make them as separate as separate can be.

Im not sure why killing suddenly makes the Others "evil". Don't men also kill? And don't they also kill lots of people? There is also no evidence that the others wan't to exterminate all life, the only hint of that is Old Nan's tale which is a horror bed time story meant to scare Bran.

Again no one is saying they are good, but to use killing as evidence for them being evil doesn't make sense to me especially when we know close to nothing about them.

The First Men for example came to westeros and considered the CotF evil and slaughtered them due to their magics, does that mean we should take the view of man and say the CotF are evil?

[butterbumps!]

That happened only after future Bran opened his third eye.

ok? and how does this relate to anything?

and wait wait wait-- "future Bran?" Is this more speculations on speculations?

[OmnomnomPomelo]

I can't understand why the Others would build a Wall which prevents them to murder. And also, how would they build it with tunnels and all when they can't pass it (see Coldhands).

[wolfmaid7]

Hell yeah they built the Wall and they don't raise wights either.

GRRM said the Wall took hundreds of years to build and thousands of years to reach its current height.They built it completed it and men like always took over and started

Adding on to what they already built.If we believe what happened after courtesy the World book and the current books.100 kingdoms rose and fell they pretty much went back to killing each other.Plus the population was near decimated during the LN.

The Starks were still fighting, throwing off this rebellion or that. Conquering this king or that. So when in the midst of all this did man pull them selves together in the aftermath to build "that".

[butterbumps!]

I can't understand why the Others would build a Wall which prevents them to murder. And also, how would they build it with tunnels and all when they can't pass it (see Coldhands).

How does it prevent them from murdering? If they built it to keep the wargs and CotF away (as in, the "Others" and their affiliates were actually south of the Wall), then it would make sense. And who says that the Wall prevents them from murdering whoever they want?

How do you know they can't pass? Because of Coldhands? Note that Coldhands couldn't pass through a weirwood door (not Ice tunnel) far below the Wall-- as in, not the Wall, but an enchanted door that's pretty clearly related to the CotF and not necessarily having anything to do with the giant magic ice Wall above it.

[Vikingkingq]

Does it really matter whether or not the Others are evil? A plague or a wildfire or a meteor falling from the sky aren't morally evil, but they're dangerous to human life all the same, and sane people try to protect themselves from this. Like by building a giant damn wall.

[shadow282]

By trying to kill a child, Jamie was as monstrous as Gregor at the start. If Jamie changed Gregor can. I'm not dismissing them, GRRM is - he has painted a character like Gregor as a pure monster because every story needs some kind of antagonistic yardstick to develop central characters against. I don't think I know enough about Gregor to judge because GRRM hasn't written him that way. You can take him as a villain if you want, but I think that is being 1) judgemental and 2) looking further into the character than info provided. He's a monstrous antagonist to advance the plot - he's not even a fully fleshed out human character. I can dismiss them on that level.

The Others steal no babies - FFS - Craster gives them away. They are sacrificial, like Mel burning people in the fire. Except if you watch the show it seems to suggest th Others don't kill the babies, rather transform them.

The Others have slaughtered very few characters in the story. Royce is the only confirmed kill I'm aware of and seeing as Sam killed an Other - it seems pretty even.

The Others may control the wrights - it seems very likley but is still not proven. Mormont engaged the wrights at the fist of the first men. Tormund thinks the Others are just ghostly cold things that pick stragglers off.

Their purpose is unkown - this is not proof of any alignment. Judging them as aligned a certain way just shows a reader jumping to conclusions, or being judgmental.

Everyone always has the opportunity to become a better person. Does that mean nobody is ever evil? No, it just means that they can choose to become better, not that they aren't bad. Gregor is a fully fleshed out character. We've been given his history, seen his actions through multiple POVs, heard his actions described in multiple POVs. He's evil, that doesn't mean he isn't fully fleshed out. And saying that there's no evil in ASOIAF as long as you ignore the evil characters because that's "being judgemental" is silly.

That depends on how you classify stealing I suppose. IIRC is says somewhere that Craster gives away his sons to protect himself. For a real world example, that would be the same as paying "protection" money to criminals. If you don't think that's stealing then fine.

The Others have killed lots of people in the story, we've just only seen one through a POV. They attacked the Fist and killed many NW members, Mance/Tormund told Jon about them killing lots of Wildlings.

Everything we've been told and shown says that the Others control the wights. Tormund says the Others follow the Wildings and attack them and that those who die rise as wights, follow the Wildings, and attack them. They're both there, both attacking the Wildings, and neither stopping the other. That's pretty good proof right there.

Their purpose doesn't really matter, their actions matter. And every single action we've been shown casts them as evil.

I'm not arguing that every single human character is good. There are good humans and bad humans. I'm arguing that every single action we've seen taken or heard about regarding the Others is evil.

[Dorian Martell]

Im not sure why killing suddenly makes the Others "evil". Don't men also kill? And don't they also kill lots of people? There is also no evidence that the others wan't to exterminate all life, the only hint of that is Old Nan's tale which is a horror bed time story meant to scare Bran.

Again no one is saying they are good, but to use killing as evidence for them being evil doesn't make sense to me especially when we know close to nothing about them.

The First Men for example came to westeros and considered the CotF evil and slaughtered them due to their magics, does that mean we should take the view of man and say the CotF are evil?

You failed to read the text you quoted and responded to. Yes, men kill and are evil. Wanton killing is what makes the others evil. In the same way it makes Gregor evil. As for the exterminating all life, the only time we see the others is when they or their minions are killing people. That is evidence. Plain text and simple.

Does it really matter whether or not the Others are evil? A plague or a wildfire or a meteor falling from the sky aren't morally evil, but they're dangerous to human life all the same, and sane people try to protect themselves from this. Like by building a giant damn wall.

seeing as how they are the reason for the construction of a massive fortification that is a central part of the story, yes, it matters

[Forest of the Children]

Surely the others are elemental and 'beyond evil'. Evil is only applicable to humans, they are not humans so it is reductive to apply the term to them. Are floods, hurricanes, earthquakes and droughts evil? Is Ebola evil? No, but they are destructive and frightening and should be protected against. Isn't the whole point of the series how ridiculous man's little 'game of thrones' is compared to the 'terrible beauty' and destructive power of nature? We are better working together not fighting each other.

[The Red Widow of Coldmoat]

How do you know they can't pass? Because of Coldhands? Note that Coldhands couldn't pass through a weirwood door (not Ice tunnel) far below the Wall-- as in, not the Wall, but an enchanted door that's pretty clearly related to the CotF and not necessarily having anything to do with the giant magic ice Wall above it.

Sam does say that Coldhands can't pass beyond the Wall.

“Why didn’t he come with you?” Meera gestured toward Gilly and her babe. “They came with you, why not him? Why didn’t you bring him through this Black Gate too?”

“He ... he can’t.”

“Why not?”

“The Wall. The Wall is more than just ice and stone, he said. There are spells woven into it ... old ones, and strong. He cannot pass beyond the Wall.”

Now, whether Coldhands told Sam he couldn't pass the Wall, or Sam inferred it from Coldhands not being able to pass through the Black Gate is another matter. It may very well be Sam making an incorrect inference. However, Coldhands could have also directly told Sam that he can't pass the Wall. I'm inclined to believe the latter, personally (since Sam says it right after saying what Coldhands told him about the Wall)

That said, even if Coldhands cannot pass the wall by any means, that still leaves many possibilities as to why (especially since Coldhands seems quite different from your garden variety wight)

Also as a side point (unrelated to the quoted post), Waymar Royce is not the only person we see the Others kill. An Other also killed Small Paul.

[Archmaester Drew]

Sam does say that Coldhands can't pass beyond the Wall.

Now, whether Coldhands told Sam he couldn't pass the Wall, or Sam inferred it from Coldhands not being able to pass through the Black Gate is another matter. It may very well be Sam making an incorrect inference. However, Coldhands could have also directly told Sam that he can't pass the Wall. I'm inclined to believe the latter, personally (since Sam says it right after saying what Coldhands told him about the Wall)

That said, even if Coldhands cannot pass the wall by any means, that still leaves many possibilities as to why (especially since Coldhands seems quite different from your garden variety wight)

Also as a side point (unrelated to the quoted post), Waymar Royce is not the only person we see the Others kill. An Other also killed Small Paul.

:agree:

Also, I like the idea of garden wights! -- like garden gnomes, but undead with blue eyes and black hands!

You could market them -- south of the Wall! ;)

[David C. Hunter]

I literally didnt get on for a day and this happened. Didnt think it will get to 7 pages, but I appreciate it all.

The wall is a semi permeable membrane to a nature reserve, or the place with the 'old ways' and natural things are protected from men.

The new door at Castle Black doesn't show the Wall's original purpose, that old door that Sam went through with Coldhands does. Only people that have spoken the old words and have faith in the old ways are supposed to go north of the wall.

Andals and Targs just fucked it all up, changing Westeros over time and superseding the old ways.

Oh and the Others don't steal Craster's sons - he gives them willingly, there is no theft involved. It's a sacrifice in accordance with the forgotten old ways.

Not sure who built the Wall but it was probably done so in agreement with the Others, after the Long Night (or to end The Long Night). Odd that the Nights King was number 13 and that the Last Hero had a dozen companions, no? A little too co-incidental, I wager.

Too coincidental indeed. On the Show, behind the Night King was the silhouette of another 12 White Walkers it would seem. The number 13 again. Was it the Last hero and his companions? Was it the Lord Commander's before the Night King?

I just think its borderline...silly to believe at this point in the story, given the fact we know how unreliable the history is, that the Children and Humans built the Wall themselves, without the Ice magician White Walkers. Even if the wall took forever to get to that size, there is clearly Ice magic intertwined with the Wall and most likely a large amount of blood sacrifice. It couldve been a joint project between the Children, Humans and Others.

Speak for yourself.

Judging 'evil' from a solely human perspective is humanist and narrow minded.

Agreed 100% I never viewed any faction as purely evil, that's not how GRRM writes and its not what this story is about.

I don't think there is evil in ASoIaF.

Yet, in the series, we are reading about a world, which is presented by the various POVs of (mostly) human characters (I would argue Mel is not human). We are invited to form a world view.

Loving everything you're saying.

It's not ridiculous if you try and think objectively and get over a subjective, human POV.

Jamie started as a nasty incestuous attempted child murderer and now he is one of the more heroic figures in the series. As readers, we judged Jamie on the POV of others and then, when his POV was offered, we were able to judge him on himself. We have not been offered a Mountain or Ramsay POV - but I don't think it matters as some characters are just painted as monsters to progress the plot and aid with more important character development. Vargo, Gregor and Ramsay are these type of characters - they are the stories' monsters that exist for other characters to develop or face as obstacles.

I'm certain ASoIaF is going to paint the supernatural 'monsters' (such as The Others, CotF) as equally sympathetic, if not more sympathetic than the humans as part of it's conclusion. It is a logical place for the narrative to go after how it has presented the human characters.

Ask yourself a simple question - all of the character drama, development and twist and turns aside - what has been happening in overall plot of ASoIaF for 5 lengthy books?

This series has sharpend my vision enough to question the perceived benevolent factions as well as trying to understand the perceived evil factions for better understanding. I.E. Starks = Good; Lannisters = Bad is the overall perception of most readers in the story, but the reality is far from that. Starks were a very different people before the Dragon came, as were the Lannisters, and both sides have had decenet and indecent Lords/Ladies. Trying to organize each faction as one thing is ridiculous. GRRM is a master of misdirection and redherrings.

The problem with all of this reimagining is that it required a willful disregard of everything told to us in the books by various sources. We are told of the Others' hatred of warmth and living. We are shown them killing people with ferocious abandon and using the reanimated corpses to wage war on folks on the other side of a great barrier that if they themselves built, not only prevented their own movements but gave their enemies protection and freedom of movement as well. It makes ZERO sense. I have read a few theories regarding the idea that the others built the wall and they all take a number of huge leaps based on theories with no textual basis to be plausible. The others aren't just a group of wildlings that went WAY far north, they are magical creatures that exist in cold that is unbearable to people and have done nothing but try to kill every person they encounter. We the readers have seen this. When combined with the the fact that the wall is the one of the few barriers that stop them and the oral traditions told by folks like Old Nan and we can only draw one conclusion that the wall was built and magically enchanted by the likes of people, giants and the children of the forest to keep out the Others. Since people, giants and the CTOF can pass under the wall and the Others/Wights cannot, then you have a nail in the coffin of the "wall was built by the others" theories

No one said that the White Walkers are squeaky clean good guys. They are a faction with their own agenda. Im sure the White Walkers hate the warmth just like Southrons hate the snow. The hatred of the living sounds liek somethign made up. Hating the living doesnt make sense because the White Walkers themselves are alive. They arent dead. They are real sentient beings, so if they hate the living , then they hate themselves. That sounds liek a ghost story you tell your kids during camp.

I have a feeling that if the White Walkers wanted to kill every last Wildlings they wouldve done it. Why wait until they got organized to make your attack? Sure they are killing people, but their tactics are not ones of genocide. It is almost as if they are trying to push the Wildlings south and out of the lands. Obviously, I could be wrong about the agenda, but I still believe the Others agenda is unknown to us. The Others never died. They survived the Long Night, they were around during the reign of the Night King (In fact he seems to be alive and well) and they were appearing even before the Dragons were reborn. Trying to kill everyone they encounter? I dont think so. This feels as if something very recently triggered this aggression. I doubt they were waiting over 8000 years just to build their numbers and since that is the case, why start attacking now after all this time?

Who said the Children can past through the wall? To be honest, I fear the COTF moreso than the Others. And honestly, how do we know the White Walkers cannot pass? The woman who seduced the Night King surely didnt have any trouble going South. The Wights also didnt seem to have any trouble. Now the Children have tunnels they probbaly go deep beneath the Wall...but can they pass over the top?

I'm not even trying to theorize a twist as such - just trying to work out what the story is actually about and where it is going to end up. Certainly, with multiple POVs, the story is not about Dany, or Jon, or Jamie, or Arya, or Bran, or Sansa, or Cersie, or Stannis - the story must be about all of these characters and the world in which they live. What I have seen occur, over 5 books, is the world in which these characters live go from kind of unstable to worse because of their and other characters actions so logically must accept that if The Others are the enemy of all human kind then relative to their world, they will probably not be as bad for it or the Others aren't the enemy of all human kind and have just been built up as this other so that humans have a counterpoint to justify themselves against in the story.

I personally read the story as the White Walkers eventually joining the Northern alliance of the Starks. It just seems logical to me.

Do you think the pale whit spiders as big as hounds are an actual thing, or are they more like Grumpkins and Snarks - a human perversion of an actual thing.

Grumpkins to me seem very much like CotF and Snarks like Giants.

If the others rode on dead mounts, like half skeletal horses, bears, unicorns (wooly rhinos), perhaps the idea of spiders is just a perversion of that.

Consider in Jons arc he has gone from thinking wildlings and Giants are different to viewing them as kindred - so far. In Brans arc he has gone from thinking the CotF are mythical and potentially dangerous to seeing them somewhat as kindred. There is no reason this line of understanding cannot be extended to the Others.

Have we even seen an Other try and pass south of the wall? How do we know they cannot pass, other than tales humans have told each other.

I recon that magic hatch Sam went through would stop them but the gate at Castle Black won't do squat, because the magic is removed - it's just a tunnel.

The wall could have been built as part of an agreement - that the Others were happy to stay on one side of so long as only people the respected the old ways went north of it. Because of the gate at Castle Black and a non binding tunnel, anyone can now go anyway and the agreement is no longer valid.

Very nice

The fact that craster was always saying he was a godly man and was pretty much left unmolested by the others has me thinking. Could the fact that he sacrificed his sons be the thing that kept him safe? The rest of the wildlings have forgotten the old ways. The others are pissed that they're not receiving their due? The wall is simply there to keep the others' "live stock " (wildlings) from going south. Now that Jon has allowed them south of the wall and is aiding them against the others could the 7 kingdoms have gone against an oath that said they will stay out of the affairs of wildlings and others? Will this act be enough to bring down the wall? I'm just putting this together on the run

Edited to add. And Ned as the stark in winterfell knew this, but Didn't have a chance to pass on the knowledge because he thought he was headed to the wall and would escape execution?

I....love this idea...

Not sure what will bring down the Wall - or if it will come down.

Am sure that Craster's praying to the Others by giving them his sons is exactly what kept him safe. The idea that wildlings are trapped there as Other's livestock is interesting.

Im starting to believe that it will never come down because it serves a purpose other than protection

I agree that not everything is black/white- there are places in between good and evil. However, that doesn't mean that there isn't any pure evil. It just means that most characters fall in between good and evil, just like in real life. Sandor, Jaimes, ect fall in the middle area. People like Ramsay and the Mountain don't.

Thinking you're doing the right thing doesn't mean that you're not pure evil. Hitler was convinced that he was doing the right thing. Nobody is the villain of their own story. Just look at Cersei's POV. I'm not saying she's pure evil, but every bad thing she does is somebody else's fault, or done for "good" reasons. Getting Ramsay or Mountain POVs wouldn't change their actions, it would just show us how they feel about their actions. It might let us understand their characters better, but understanding the why behind a psychopath doesn't make them less of a psychopath.

Jaime is a bad example because he changes throughout the series. He's heroic not because he wasn't a bad person then but because he's gradually becoming a better person.

The people being painted as monsters do matter because they're the evil people in the series. You can't just dismiss them.

I agree that GRRM is building up to that point. I'm arguing that based off their actions it's going to seem ridiculous to not make them evil.

"Listen, I know that I've shown them stealing babies and doing gods know what with them, slaughtering men, women, and children before reanimating them as zombie slave warriors and forcing them to slaughter their own loved ones, but really they're pretty nice guys!"

GRRM has literally stated hundreds of time that he hates the "evil demon in the north" fantasy cliches. The fact that he has set this story up the exact same way is almost a trolling joke by him and an incredible misdirection redherring.

So what you suggests is that the purpose of the Starks is to keep the wall manned (hence killing deserters), to keep the Wildlings in the North, to keep the Others placated and thus keep the Long Night away?

It may be that this became their purpose after the first Long Night, Last Hero/Nights King - true wildlings (like Craster) could be descended from the Nights King (mixed Other/human blood).

Or, the Last Hero becamse the 1st Lord Commander and the The Night King was the 13th and it was he who maybe gave birth to the Starks.

It looks like it does. Then again, Sam ended up killing one so they might have regrouped to reassess the situation allowing the remnant of the expedition to make it to craster's place. the sacrifices did not keep him safe from the watch rebels though

We are shown humans being everything, from terribly cruel for no reason to sacrificing ones life in the name of a vow they swore. We see parents grieve for children and children grieve for their parents. We see caring and cruelty, love and horror and everything in between with people.
With the others, all we see is Killing, reanimating of corpses, more killing, child taking and finally, melting at the touch of obsidian. We have seen them do some horrible cruel, inhuman and violent things and we have seen nothing good. Zero, Zip, Zilch. Nathan, Nip, Nada. So, now and for the foreseeable future, they are the ultimate bad guys in the books

GRRM has literally stated hundreds of time that he hates the "evil demon in the north" fantasy cliches. The fact that he has set this story up the exact same way is almost a trolling joke by him and an incredible misdirection redherring. He has also said that he will present the story like the Battle of Troy, in which there was no good and bad side, just two sides fighting each other with their respective followers.

If GRRM isn't using the Others to show human prejudice, it's seems a very wasted setup, doesn't it?

Exactly.

Seriously? We see this?

Cite me a chapter from the books that shows us this Other killing clearly? And again, the children are offered to them - considering the babies are left out in the snow, making them snow babies isn't such a bad thing, surely?

There are no ultimate bad guys in this series - chances are the final conflict will have 3 sides, with 2 of them potentially aligned, though all of them fighting for their own purpose.

Northmen/Others/Wildlings vs Dany/Dragons/Southrons

SO far I judge them as evil, but I don't discount the possibility that they aren't. I'd pay more attention to the Cotf, they are up to something.

I am with you on this. I never trusted the Children.

But that's not through the Wall. Flying an eagle above the Wall (and I'm not even sure he actually crossed the Wall) isn't the same as trying to skin change through it, do you not agree? Further, Jon could not sense Bran once Bran was beyond. Lastly, Rickon is not beyond the Wall. Skagos is directly east of the Gifts, just south of the Wall.

Also, as a side point, didn't you read the Word Book? You know the KoW page that talks a great deal about how

The Starks were particularly aggressive toward wargs and CotF, pretty much trying to kill them en masse; even their ancestor, Brandon the Bloody, got his name from slaughtering the CotF prodigiously

Which is a bit hard to ignore in terms of what human-CotF relations were like around the time the Wall was built, and kind of tell us that the Wall is likely not built by CotF for the sake of keeping out Others. Rather the contrary seems more like likely.

Brandon the Bloody was not their ancestor though. I dont even think the Starks were a house before the pact. I think the Starks were born during the Long Night. But I agree, I do not believe teh Children had anything to do with the Wall being built.

:agree:

Personally I think the main battle of good and evil of this story is within the human heart.

yup

[Mithras]

Can anybody think of a feasible construction material to build the Wall at its current location and maintain it for 8k years, other than ice?

[David C. Hunter]

Can anybody think of a feasible construction material to build the Wall at its current location and maintain it for 8k years, other than ice?

For 8 thousand years? Nothing that I think would be availble to the people back then. It is just magic and blood at this point it seems.

[butterbumps!]

Sam does say that Coldhands can't pass beyond the Wall.

Now, whether Coldhands told Sam he couldn't pass the Wall, or Sam inferred it from Coldhands not being able to pass through the Black Gate is another matter. It may very well be Sam making an incorrect inference. However, Coldhands could have also directly told Sam that he can't pass the Wall. I'm inclined to believe the latter, personally (since Sam says it right after saying what Coldhands told him about the Wall)

That said, even if Coldhands cannot pass the wall by any means, that still leaves many possibilities as to why (especially since Coldhands seems quite different from your garden variety wight)

Also as a side point (unrelated to the quoted post), Waymar Royce is not the only person we see the Others kill. An Other also killed Small Paul.

But we can see that they are not passing through the giant ice-Wall, but a weirwood portal that has some sort of spell woven into it. We can also see that there is literally no place to get through the Wall except at the Shadow, Eastwatch, CB, and the Black Gate. So if CH is unable to get through the Black Gate, then yea, he literally "cannot pass through the Wall." And that does not mean it's because the Wall's spells block him, but because he's literally, physically blocked from using 3 of the 4 openings. And magically blocked from the tunnel that bypasses under it. So I think this is getting conflated.

I tend to agree with you though that CH isn't a garden variety wight, though. I always kind of thought it might have something to do with saying your vows in front of a weirwood-- that saying the vows before the trees protects you from becoming the Others thralls or something. We've only seen wights who haven't said the vows before the trees (they've been either Brothers who swore in the sept or wildlings), so that variable is somewhat untested for now.

Brandon the Bloody was not their ancestor though. I dont even think the Starks were a house before the pact. I think the Starks were born during the Long Night. But I agree, I do not believe teh Children had anything to do with the Wall being built.

Bran the Bloody is Bran the Builder's father or grandfather, which makes him a Stark ancestor. Bran allegedly founded them, but Bran the Bloody is their ancestor too.

[BearQueen87]

Can anybody think of a feasible construction material to build the Wall at its current location and maintain it for 8k years, other than ice?

Magic. Which probably means blood.

[igrewupinKL]

Its plausible that the Others built the wall in its early days when it was much smaller, in an attempt to mark where their land started. But i think the COTF created the magic in the wall so that the Others could not pass after the Long Night

[Mithras]

Magic. Which probably means blood.

Magic is not a material. The options you have are wood, stone, perhaps bricks made of baked mud and ice.