Boarders writing a Novel Part 12.

[Myrddin]

I think it's good to question whether a prologue is needed. I also think it's a bad thing to assume "prologues are bad" is a writing rule. Bad prologues are bad (and the article does a good job of laying out what makes some bad). Prologues that set up/tease the main story can be good. It depends on the story.

For example, the prologues for Game for Thrones, Eye of the World, Great Hunt, and Name of the Wind are all great. Prologues that "introduce the world" are not.

I guess, for my writing, the touch stone is: Does this scene give information that is crucial to the story but can't be realistically conveyed through the protagonist's point of view?

For my epic fantasy the answer was Yes. The prologue hints at what's lurking in the shadows for the protagonist to shed light on later. Chapter 1 then focuses on the protagonist and his immediate conflicts (which will lead him down the path to converge with the prologue conflict).

For my historical fantasy, the answer was No. A prologue there is unnecessary. Cut to the chase. That's no exaggeration. Chapter 1 really contains a hair raising chase through Tuscan streets and rooftops after a siege is lifted and mercenary soldiers decide they still want to be paid. :)

[Magnar of Skagos]

Interesting post on why prologues are usually unnecessary and typically undermine a story. Using subtext instead gives your story weight.

Great read. Thanks for sharing.

[SilentRoamer]

Just to add to the list above the prologue from Bakkers The Darkness That Comes Before is another example of a great prologue. That and Eye of the World are my favourite prologues of all time.

[The King in Black]

Thanks :) I'll PM it to you soon.

Me too, if you don't mind

[Bluetiger]

Me too, if you could...

[First of My Name]

Me too, if you don't mind

Me too, if you could...

Gladly. It's on its way, I need to translate a few parts, since I write in Dutch.

I might not be able to respond for a few days because I'm leaving for Spain tomorrow, but I'll definitely reply before Wednesday.

[Neumond]

I could even give it a try in dutch, if you want :). As long as you went easy on the fancy words ;).

[EruditeFool]

My thoughts on prologues: Don't do it on you first book. Get the reader to trust you with a prologue-free book before you put in something that less patient readers will skip only to be confused later in the book.

My first one has no prologue but an epilogue while my second book has a prologue. The idea is that the readers read the epilogue (which contains a pretty big hook) and are more likely to read book 2's prologue based on that.

[HexMachina]

I'm unsure whether my prologue is worth keeping, because I'm rather fond of it but the article has some good points.Would anyone be willing to proofread it? It's only five pages or so.

Has it changed since I last read it? If not I should have a copy saved somewhere and would be happy to take another look bearing that article in mind

[First of My Name]

Has it changed since I last read it? If not I should have a copy saved somewhere and would be happy to take another look bearing that article in mind

I added a little about the king's personality, but nothing more. Three people are already giving their feedback though, so it's not really necessary, but thanks for the offer.

[HexMachina]

I added a little about the king's personality, but nothing more. Three people are already giving their feedback though, so it's not really necessary, but thanks for the offer.

Don't you refuse my blatant attempt to procrastinate! :p

[First of My Name]

Don't you refuse my blatant attempt to procrastinate! :P

By all means then, take another look :P Far be it from me to stand in the way of procrastrination.

[Of the Eastern Cliff]

Hi folks. First time posting here in a while. I used to visit under a different forum tag (TheDanish) but that account has since been lost in the mists of time (i.e. I lost access to it when my undergraduate email lapsed after graduation).

So I recently finished the third draft of a fantasy novel. It's too long (280k) and I've pared it down somewhat. Now it's in the hands of some friends who will hopefully give me some advice on what to cut.

But I'm sort of at a loss for what to do next. Of course I'd love to get it published (once it's shorter), and there is this process of "query letters" that many of you fine folks have written of in terrified words. Are there any good sources that might detail post-writing avenues? For both traditional and self-publishing?

[Zoë Sumra]

For trad pub, you need to start by cutting it below 150K in the UK or 120K in the US. You may decide it's easier - starting from 280K - to add a central climax and cut it into two books. From there it's easy (knock off 10%).

In terms of query letters, I strongly recommend you read every entry on Query Shark.

[Of the Eastern Cliff]

Query Shark looks like exactly what I want. Thanks!

What about non-traditional publishing? I know there probably aren't hard-and-fast rules for selfpub, but are there any good resources on that?

[The_BlauerDragon]

I've finally found a way to get my juices flowing, in a literary sense. I've been carrying paper and pens with me all day long and jotting out little random facts and other notes about the world in which I want my characters to reside (if and when they come to me, that is). I have even come up with a couple of specific characters that should play some part or another, and a host of rough character concepts that might be fun to toy with (or which may be useful in certain situations).
Now I have a ton of scraps of paper with completely haphazard disorganized guano crazy ramblings... and still no solid clue as to what problem to inject as either goal or catalyst to getting my story moving.
Anyone have any suggestions for an exercise, exorcism, workshop, tutorial, therapy, or anything else that might help me work through this?

[The_BlauerDragon]

So this just happened. I am still partially in denial!

Awesome! Congrats... The link certainly makes it sound like something I would like to read. I'll keep an eye out for it.

I'm trying to gain some much-needed perspective on my writing. Anybody feel like reading a short story I wrote and giving me feedback?

Not sure if I have the qualifications that you're looking for, but I'd love to.

[The_BlauerDragon]

Respondified.

My thoughts on prologues: Don't do it on you first book. Get the reader to trust you with a prologue-free book before you put in something that less patient readers will skip only to be confused later in the book.

My first one has no prologue but an epilogue while my second book has a prologue. The idea is that the readers read the epilogue (which contains a pretty big hook) and are more likely to read book 2's prologue based on that.

See; I guess this is something that has been bothering me. I'm glad to know prologues are a general no-no because every time I have tried to sit down and write one (thinking that might be a good place to start off writing my book), it has turned into "Chapter 1" and gotten scrapped. I think I like your idea of using an Epilogue instead and carefully setting a nicely baited hook in it though. I may have to explore that as a more practical alternative.

I´m feeling like a crazy person right now.

Please tell me, you have such dips into madness too.

I can´t be the only one, with rioting and name calling characters in her mind... :lmao:

:cheers:

It has naught to do with writing, but I think I might have an experience to share that may make you feel better. I have an unusual mind and a wicked sense of humor... and I currently work at a jail. I was walking by as an inmate was being booked in tonight and the booking officer was asking the usual questions about whether or not the person hears voices telling them what to do... All of a sudden, I began singing. Softly. Though I later discovered that my soft singing was actually much louder than I'd imagined... and was heard by the officer, the inmate, and several other officers and inmates in the vicinity. What was I singing in all my twisted glory? "Chtulhu loves me, this I know, because the voices tell me so. Crazy thoughts to him belong. In the mind's abyss he's growing strong. Yes, Chtulhu loves me...Yes, Chtulhu loves me..."

Which, I admit is not good... but in fairness, I was making it up on the fly.

[Dr. Qyburn]

Query Shark looks like exactly what I want. Thanks!

What about non-traditional publishing? I know there probably aren't hard-and-fast rules for selfpub, but are there any good resources on that?

You could start with www.thepassivevoice.com.

The dude who runs the blog, passive guy, reposts parts or full articles about the publishing industry, but most articles I've seen are about authors sharing advice on writing, marketing and publishing. Most of them are self-published.

You can also try kindle boards, a forum for kindle authors, but anyone is free to join.

My advice on self- publishing is, if you are going to do it then do it right. Save up some money, get a good editor, a good cover designer and be prepared to spent some on marketing. Also create some buzz pre-launch and get as many reviews as possible. Don't rush to click the publish button. It's your name (or pen name) on the damn book after all. :D

[Stan Man]

Hey, I'm (relatively) new here - what is the purpose of this thread exactly? Just writers posting about their daily efforts?

Sounds awesome!