US Politics: Another Government Shutdown Looms

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Well then, we've got Commodore as evidence for the theory that Cruz is a genius at playing the base even as he actively harms his purported policy interests.

[Commodore]

Well then, we've got Commodore as evidence for the theory that Cruz is a genius at playing the base even as he actively harms his purported policy interests.

Five or ten years ago, the CR would have passed with 80+ votes and no resistance.

As Mike Lee noted, the trends are moving in his direction. These are the last gasps of a dying establishment.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Yes, and instead it passed with futile resistance which ended up permitting Democrats to approve several nominees they might not have managed to approve otherwise.

[sToNED_CAT]

Yes, and instead it passed with futile resistance which ended up permitting Democrats to approve several nominees they might not have managed to approve otherwise.

This is of course complete nonsense, the nominees were going to be approved next week... The only reason for this narrative to be pushed through establishment media is to hurt Cruz&Lee politically.

[Commodore]

Yes, and instead it passed with futile resistance which ended up permitting Democrats to approve several nominees they might not have managed to approve otherwise.

futile in the short term perhaps, but edifying in the long term

certainly for GOP primary voters, the vote on Cruz's point of order was informative

[OnionAhaiReborn]

This is of course complete nonsense, the nominees were going to be approved next week... The only reason for this narrative to be pushed through establishment media is to hurt Cruz&Lee politically.

Let's ask noted establishment media figure, Republican Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah, what he thinks:

“I wish you hadn’t pointed that out,” Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah told the Associated Press when he was asked if Cruz had ended up helping Democrats. “You should have an end goal in sight if you're going to do these types of things and I don't see an end goal other than irritating a lot of people.”

futile in the short term perhaps, but edifying in the long term

certainly for GOP primary voters, the vote on Cruz's point of order was informative

Then we don't disagree, this was a move meant to please Republican primary voters, as it has pleased you, even as it sacrifices immediate policy goals.

[lokisnow]

This is of course complete nonsense, the nominees were going to be approved next week... The only reason for this narrative to be pushed through establishment media is to hurt Cruz&Lee politically.

No. Congress would have skipped town for an early vacation and none of the nominees would be confirmed because congress won't be in session again til the new year which will be a new congress.

The talk was that three judges in TX would be confirmed and they would be the last before the vacation, but that was likely to be scuttled because even a Republican congress would confirm those judges and they wanted to save them as proof of bipartisanship.

[TrackerNeil]

And as for Cruz, its hard to say if he's a genius or not yet. The thing to always remember is that he's not using the usual political math. He doesn't care if he helps Obama or hurts Republican interests, all he cares about is positioning himself as the standard bearer for the far right and using that to launch a presidential bid. If it works and he gets into the White House, then he is a genius, because he figured out something new about the voters; which is that perception is so much more important than reality that it helps to actively hurt your own policy interests if you can die-on-the-hill while it happens. That's a level of showboating and voter ignorance that hadn't previously been reached.

Ted Cruz is not a genius, and he's not getting into the White House unless he's sneaking into a party. I think he's primarily concerned with his personal power and influence, and thus you can't expect him to respond to standard political incentives. Sure, all politicians are self-serving to an extent, but some of them actually give a damn about policy. I think Cruz couldn't care less.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Ted Cruz is not a genius, and he's not getting into the White House unless he's sneaking into a party. I think he's primarily concerned with his personal power and influence, and thus you can't expect him to respond to standard political incentives. Sure, all politicians are self-serving to an extent, but some of them actually give a damn about policy. I think Cruz couldn't care less.

This needs to be some kind of comedy skit.

[Commodore]

Ted Cruz is not a genius

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also had a 5-4 record arguing in front of SCOTUS, perhaps not genius level, but none of us could do it

[YoungGriff89]

Ted Cruz is not a genius, and he's not getting into the White House unless he's sneaking into a party. I think he's primarily concerned with his personal power and influence, and thus you can't expect him to respond to standard political incentives. Sure, all politicians are self-serving to an extent, but some of them actually give a damn about policy. I think Cruz couldn't care less.

It doesn't help that his dad is nuts and he's not even by the Republican interpretation legally allowed to run for president. Ted Cruz I mean. He's clearly not an idiot but he's a very blatant liar. I don't know if I would say he's nefarious but he'll say anything to appease his base and keep his political career.

[BloodRider]

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also had a 5-4 record arguing in front of SCOTUS, perhaps not genius level, but none of us could do it

The ability to spread your own shit, and actually believe it smells like roses is not an indication of genius.

[The Anti-Targ]

Ted Cruz and Mike Lee forced it (unanimous consent is a hell of a thing), not Republicans as a whole. McConnell, Graham, and McCain were all publicly extremely pissed off about it.

And as for Cruz, its hard to say if he's a genius or not yet. The thing to always remember is that he's not using the usual political math. He doesn't care if he helps Obama or hurts Republican interests, all he cares about is positioning himself as the standard bearer for the far right and using that to launch a presidential bid. If it works and he gets into the White House, then he is a genius, because he figured out something new about the voters; which is that perception is so much more important than reality that it helps to actively hurt your own policy interests if you can die-on-the-hill while it happens. That's a level of showboating and voter ignorance that hadn't previously been reached.

Hardly new or genius. That has been a truism since, well, since the pursuit of power began.

Case in point, the perception, according to Pew research among a large segment of the US population is that the CIA got actionable intelligence out of it's torture practices. This despite past research which suggests torture yields very little, if any, valuable information which cannot be obtained by less inhuman means, and a Senate report saying they got no actionable intelligence, and almost certainly extracted packs of lies out of some people. Hence 51% of US people saying the CIA was all good with its torturing ways. I do hope someone can poke holes in Pew's methodology to show that figure to be misleadingly high.

TV shows like 24 probably helped a lot with that perception. If Jack Bower can get his man through torture then surely the CIA will do the same. Zero Dark 30 also on the surface seemed to imply that the "enhanced interrogation" helped to snag Osama.

I dunno where you folks are going, but a 51% approval rating on torture suggests you're collectively heading down a dark path.

[Commodore]

Hardly new or genius. That has been a truism since, well, since the pursuit of power began.

Case in point, the perception, according to Pew research among a large segment of the US population is that the CIA got actionable intelligence out of it's torture practices.

We dumped some water on KSM, got OBL's courier name which led to OBL. KSM who planned the murder of thousands of innocents and cut off Daniel Pearl's head.

Hardly anyone loses any sleep over that tradeoff.

It's like gun control, all the sanctimony in the world isn't going to change people's minds. Don't know why Dems keep beating that drum.

[TrackerNeil]

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also had a 5-4 record arguing in front of SCOTUS, perhaps not genius level, but none of us could do it

So because no one on this board could successfully argue a case before SCOTUS, Ted Cruz is a genius? There are a good many geniuses in your world, aren't there?

[Ormond]

Although the questions weren't precisely the same, it doesn't seem to me that those figures are substantially different from what Pew has found in general support of torture for the last five years, so it doesn't seem like Americans are "heading down a dark path" to me at any faster clip than normal.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/12/09/americans-views-on-use-of-torture-in-fighting-terrorism-have-been-mixed/

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

It's like gun control, all the sanctimony in the world isn't going to change people's minds. Don't know why Dems keep beating that drum.

20 dead first graders not enough of a reason for you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting

What would it take? 40? 100?

[YoungGriff89]

20 dead first graders not enough of a reason for you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting

What would it take? 40? 100?

Not to mention that the whole "good guy with a gun" line of thinking is largely false as well. You can find way more stories of the "good guy" either being no help or making things worse.

[TrackerNeil]

Aaaaand another red state begins its slow surrender to the dreaded "Obamacare."

“We made the decision in Tennessee nearly two years ago not to expand traditional Medicaid,” Haslam said in a statement. “This plan leverages federal dollars to provide health care coverage to more Tennesseans, to give people a choice in their coverage and to address the cost of health care, better health outcomes and personal responsibility.”

In other words, Tennessee has decided to cave. And Republicans think they can repeal the Affordable Care Act?

[Fez]

Hardly new or genius. That has been a truism since, well, since the pursuit of power began.

Yes, its always been true to some extent, but Cruz is taking it to a level not seen before (at least, not in the modern age). And if it works out for him, that shows a level of insight no other major politician had; also an even larger lack of shame.