TheKitttenGuard Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 re: Cuba Dammit people, that was the one island Canadians could go to inin order to avoid American tourists!! You can't take this away from us, you bastards!!The Embargo and Travel for Tourism will take act of Congress to lift. Full Normalization is still far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Obama had talked about normalization of relations with Cuba back in his 2008 campaign. And this was in Florida, mind. There is a clear generational split on this issue (for Cuban immigrants), but Americans have always supported lifting embargos and whatnot. Not sure why folks opposed are acting against the will of the American people [/sarcasm]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suttree Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Obama letting his leftist freak flag fly now that the election is over. Gotta legitimize our communist neighbors. Lol. Do you ever get beyond the chain emails you receive when looking at current events? Good old Commodore, angling for a third red scare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Manderly Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Hey, how about the LBG people who are denied a legal right to marry by various states - do they not get a say? But I guess devolving the issue to state level just makes everything ok? It's bad when the Federal government bars laws that unfairly target some citizens, but it's okay if the State implements laws that unfairly target some citizens?And, as usual, why stop at the State level? Why not devolve the power to municipal level? Maybe Lexington, KY wants to give marriage rights to people? Why is the State's tyranny validated but not the Federal governments? In his reasoning one can always move to another State if one disagrees with its policies, but except for leaving the country there is no escape from the Federal Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Lol. Do you ever get beyond the chain emails you receive when looking at current events? Good old Commodore, angling for a third red scare. Nonsense. He just knows the truth: that just a few more months of embargo and the Cuban people will finally stand up for themselves and throw out the Castros! It's so close to finally happening and Obama just screwed up all those decades of hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 In his reasoning one can always move to another State if one disagrees with its policies, but except for leaving the country there is no escape from the Federal Government. I'm sure that is his reasoning, but I find that the sentiment behind such rationales usually goes like this, "I have little sympathy for gay people." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 In his reasoning one can always move to another State if one disagrees with its policies, but except for leaving the country there is no escape from the Federal Government. Why is moving to another state an ok solution, but moving to another country not? If you're poor and working that magical $13/hr job with little to no skills (aka, the average American) whether you're talking about moving to another country or moving to another state, both are about as equally feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Boehner has condemned the Cuba move, while the Chamber of Commerce has endorsed it. Rubio spewed his nonsense, whileCorker (the incoming head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee) gave a very measured response. And Flake was physically on the plane with Alan Gross this morning. I'm going go a limb and say Obama really caught the GOP off-guard with this one, they haven't coordinated a response at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Boehner has condemned the Cuba move, while the Chamber of Commerce has endorsed it. Rubio spewed his nonsense, while Corker (the incoming head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee) gave a very measured response. And Flake was physically on the plane with Alan Gross this morning. I'm going go a limb and say Obama really caught the GOP off-guard with this one, they haven't coordinated a response at all. Obama be trolling Jeb Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Well, it's not really that surprising: islam and communism go hand in hand really. And the extremist feminist and homosexual agenda, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suttree Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 The Embargo and Travel for Tourism will take act of Congress to lift. Full Normalization is still far off. Yes for the embargo but on travel some details here. The United States will also ease travel restrictions across all 12 categories currently envisioned under limited circumstances in American law, including family visits, official visits, journalistic, professional, educational and religious activities, and public performances, officials said. Ordinary tourism, however, will remain prohibited. Mr. Obama will also allow greater banking ties, making it possible to use debit cards in Cuba, and raise the level of remittances allowed to be sent to Cuban nationals to $2,000 every three months from the current limit of $500. Intermediaries forwarding remittances will no longer require a specific license from the government. American travelers will also be allowed to import up to $400 worth of goods from Cuba, including up to $100 in tobacco and alcohol products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlle. Zabzie Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I have always thought the "leave marriage to the states because that's what the founders intended" is disingenuous and ignores the "full faith and credit" clause of the Constitution and the role of Congress, specifically granted therein, to "by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'd think most True Conservatives would be for lifting restrictions against Cuba, because it allows the free market (money, US cultural exports, what have you) to do its magic and tranform Cuba into the tropical paradise it was always intended to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sToNED_CAT Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 The Administration's move to ease travel restrictions, allow Americans to use credit cards in Cuba, and provide opportunities for Americans to bring back some Cuban goods is going to significantly increase the interaction between Americans and Cubans and serve to highlight the dramatic disparities in their standard of living. My bet is that is going to do more for motivating the Cuban people to address their domestic situation than decades of embargoes. The United States did more to normalize relations with the fucking Soviet Union than they ever did with Cuba, and the effect of openness on the Soviet Union eventually contributed to it crashing to the ground. Yeah, like increased trade with China led to the collapse of Communist party, oh wait... Lifting of embargo might actually empower Cuban communist party, if they handle the transition well, like China, not USSR. Of course the economic system will most likely change, but the one party rule could remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Yes for the embargo but on travel some details here. All what are listed in the article are specified reason. You cannot go just to go, and to do that will require Congress to do.Honestly why was the ban and Embargo codified after the Cold War? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Yeah, like increased trade with China led to the collapse of Communist party, oh wait... Yeah, it's like these countries are independent or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 So Jeb Bush came out against the Cuba move. Color me surprised. There was a poll recently of Republican primary voters in Florida (mostly to gauge the relative strength of Bush and Rubio), and among those supporting Bush, a pretty strong majority supported ending the embargo. It was Rubio's supporters that were more mixed on it. In other news, The Associated Press @AP 8m8 minutes agoBREAKING: Colombian rebels at Havana talks announce indefinite unilateral cease-fire I don't think this is related, but Havana's a hell of a place to be today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Yeah, like increased trade with China led to the collapse of Communist party, oh wait... Lifting of embargo might actually empower Cuban communist party, if they handle the transition well, like China, not USSR. Of course the economic system will most likely change, but the one party rule could remain. The prevalence of "one party rule" is not the sole indicator of progress on this issue. Hell, Russia has de facto one party rule now decades after the collapse of the Soviet Union. The reality is that increased trade with China has contributed to significant economic liberalization of the Chinese economy and has dramatically improved the quality of life of hundreds of millions of Chinese. China has also experienced a level of political liberalization within the one-party system and the average person of China has more and greater access to unfiltered news and commentary from around the world than ever before. I'm not suggesting that China is quite on its way to being a democracy within the next 30 years or anything, but the regime is significantly more open and considered within the constraints of the one-party system then it ever has been before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 The prevalence of "one party rule" is not the sole indicator of progress on this issue. Hell, Russia has de facto one party rule now decades after the collapse of the Soviet Union. The reality is that increased trade with China has contributed to significant economic liberalization of the Chinese economy and has dramatically improved the quality of life of hundreds of millions of Chinese. China has also experienced a level of political liberalization within the one-party system and the average person of China has more and greater access to unfiltered news and commentary from around the world than ever before. I'm not suggesting that China is quite on its way to being a democracy within the next 30 years or anything, but the regime is significantly more open and considered within the constraints of the one-party system then it ever has been before. And US-China trade relationship continues to improve relations between the two countries. If trade and travel relations with Cuba were normalized, one-party rule might continue, but both countries would likely benefit and grow closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 And US-China trade relationship continues to improve relations between the two countries. If trade and travel relations with Cuba were normalized, one-party rule might continue, but both countries would likely benefit and grow closer. "Improve relations" is a nebulous phrase. Does it improve human rights? Does it improve freedom of the press? Freedom of speech? Freedom of religion and association? Does it lead to elections? Or does it instead legitimize, enrich, and empower the ruling regime? That's the only reason for the bloody tyrant Castro brothers to enter into any agreement. As we can see from their squeeing reaction, the left has a strange affinity for the Cuban regime as some kind of workers' paradise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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