Are most of the prophecies false?

[Salafi Stannis]

Well, some readers complain that the series has lost it's sense of realism, that it is following too many general fantasy tropes, what with the magic and the warging and the prophecies etc with a big one here being prophecies. But, do you think that GRRM is deliberately pulling us along, to reveal that almost every prophecy, save for the biggest ones, or maybe ever them, turns out to be false/made up?

EDIT - I actually like the use of magic and prophecies, I just thought of this so I'm just throwing this out there.

[sj4iy]

Actually, it seems that all of the prophecies are coming true.

And I don't really think Martin is trying to pull anything over on us. He's increasing the magic in his series because he can.

[Bluetiger]

I don't understand people complaining about MAGIC in FANTASY series.

ASOIF still has less magic than 99,8 fantasy books

[Ser Leftwich]

How a prophecy comes to be true is very important in the story. Along with the why behind people's actions, the reveal over time of why Jaime killed Aerys being a prime example.

Unrelated, but sort of related, are people generally familiar with this, http://www.rinkworks.com/fnovel/

[Balerion the one eared cat]

I actually think a lot of the prophecies will come true (the one I believe will come true more than any others is Cersei's valonqar), because Martin is showing how insecure people are and how their actions can be heavily influenced by something they've heard that may have magical connotations. Look at Melisandre: she will do anything to get Stannis on the IT because she believes he is Azor Ahai and is the only means of stopping the coming of the Others. But maybe her allegiances will change if she interprets her visions differently and sees that perhaps Jon is a more suitable candidate.

A lot of the prophecies are going to be self-fulfilling: they'll come true because people believe in them and take action to make them happen (or attempt to stop it - Cersei), rather than any supernatural, mystical power.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

People made the prophecies work, people shape the destiny of the world.

Most of the prophecies are misundertand, that's the problem.

[Consigliere]

GRRM mentioned in an interview something along the lines of: the more you try to avoid a prophecy, the more you are making them true. We see this happening with Cersei and the valonqar prophecy. We also see this with Mel when she saw Renly in his green armour smash Stannis' host. By trying to avoid this vision she actually made it come true. I'd also argue that MMD's actions inadvertantly leads Dany on the path to fulfilling The Stallion prophecy. So I think that all the prophecies will come to pass, just in unexpected ways.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

Well, some readers complain that the series has lost it's sense of realism, that it is following too many general fantasy tropes, what with the magic and the warging and the prophecies etc with a big one here being prophecies. But, do you think that GRRM is deliberately pulling us along, to reveal that almost every prophecy, save for the biggest ones, or maybe ever them, turns out to be false/made up?

EDIT - I actually like the use of magic and prophecies, I just thought of this so I'm just throwing this out there.

I think prophecies vs. free will is a major theme of the work as well as being the main question of religion. If a god (or gods) know how everything turns out, how can our choices make a difference? How can there be free will?

I've heard the argument that with proper planning and manipulation, the future can be predicted, thus none of the prophecies need be real.

With glass candles and weirwoods and simple lying, it seems "free will" can be bent. For example, Dany's fear is clearly removed by "someone" giving her dreams at various points. Doesn't this mean her free will has been compromised, at least to some extent? And when Varys or Littlefinger trick people, isn't their free will compromised to some extent?

That said, certain prophecies are hard to explain even if you consider master manipulation. The House of the Undying sees Dany ride past people screaming "mother!" How on earth did they, or anyone, predict she would survive the House, leave Qarth, stop in Slaver's Bay, attack the slavers, have Daario switch sides, win the battle and then make that ride?

Guessing the Red Wedding is coming or Theon's invasion of Winterfell or Cersei becoming queen is in the realm of possibility. I'm not sure one could have guessed Dany riding past people yelling "mother!"

[Monctonvike]

I think the main ones will, they seemed to have been mentioned too many times not to in some capacity. Will there be twists, turns a wrinkle here and there to keep us on our toes. I really hope so

[Warrewal Halfaxe]

Not necessarily false, but misinterpreted for sure

[The Mother of The Others]

the Undying had some hot ability to peer into the streams of time, my sisters.

so the funky blood-based ability of the woods witches to tell you your destiny are probably all SKILL baby yeah (and not charlatan-istic as you'd expect of psychics in our world).

So, against the backdrop of that, when you add in prophecies...... it all still depends on which prophecies became popular and famous. Is tPtwP the work of a fraud prophet whose words captivated people and that's why the prophecy got famous? Or did the people insist on only taking seriously the prophecies that came from fully accredited witches. Because they have that option in their world! If it comes from a solid witch source, I'd put stock in it. But if it's just popular folklore with a source that can't be determined, then you're on shaky ground the same as when your father believes a particular doomsday prediction in our world and drives the family to a remote campsite for that weekend until the deadline passes and everybody has a good laugh. Ah, the memories.

[Greymoon]

Well, some readers complain that the series has lost it's sense of realism, that it is following too many general fantasy tropes, what with the magic and the warging and the prophecies etc with a big one here being prophecies. But, do you think that GRRM is deliberately pulling us along, to reveal that almost every prophecy, save for the biggest ones, or maybe ever them, turns out to be false/made up?

EDIT - I actually like the use of magic and prophecies, I just thought of this so I'm just throwing this out there.

Maybe these people should read historical fiction, instead.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

the Undying had some hot ability to peer into the streams of time, my sisters.

I actually do wonder if the Undying had a sort of radio that intercepted people's messages.

The Rhaego prophecy seems to be false. Yet, both the crones of Vaes Dothrak and Dany's fever dream contained it.

Is the Rhaego image off in space as a universal possible truth for anyone to pick up? Or was it created, transmitted and intercepted?

[sj4iy]

GRRM mentioned in an interview something along the lines of: the more you try to avoid a prophecy, the more you are making them true. We see this happening with Cersei and the valonqar prophecy. We also see this with Mel when she saw Renly in his green armour smash Stannis' host. By trying to avoid this vision she actually made it come true. I'd also argue that MMD's actions inadvertantly leads Dany on the path to fulfilling The Stallion prophecy. So I think that all the prophecies will come to pass, just in unexpected ways.

We also see Jon ignoring Melisandre's warnings about daggers in the dark. It still happened, anyway.

We also see that Rhaegar was actively trying to fulfill TPTWP prophecy. It will, but it won't be who he thought.

Basically, prophecies are inescapable, but they are also impossible to truly decipher until too late. Those who try to ignore or change them will not have any luck, and those who try to fulfill or interpret them are doomed to get it wrong.

But the prophecy still happens, no matter what.

[Monctonvike]

the Undying had some hot ability to peer into the streams of time, my sisters.

so the funky blood-based ability of the woods witches to tell you your destiny are probably all SKILL baby yeah (and not charlatan-istic as you'd expect of psychics in our world).

So, against the backdrop of that, when you add in prophecies...... it all still depends on which prophecies became popular and famous. Is tPtwP the work of a fraud prophet whose words captivated people and that's why the prophecy got famous? Or did the people insist on only taking seriously the prophecies that came from fully accredited witches. Because they have that option in their world! If it comes from a solid witch source, I'd put stock in it. But if it's just popular folklore with a source that can't be determined, then you're on shaky ground the same as when your father believes a particular doomsday prediction in our world and drives the family to a remote campsite for that weekend until the deadline passes and everybody has a good laugh. Ah, the memories.

Don't forget patchface too things that he says doesn't seem to make sense but they all seem to end up as true :)

[Nymeria_Stark]

I think prophecies vs. free will is a major theme of the work as well as being the main question of religion. If a god (or gods) know how everything turns out, how can our choices make a difference? How can there be free will?

The way I see it, we are given a starting point and a destination (prophesy or destiny) but the path we take to get from point A to B is up to us.

Cersei is trying to avoid her destiny by retaining her power as Queen (by her own choice instead of accepting her fate). Bran has accepted his fate and is learning about his abilities.

Maybe everyone has some unknown destined future but I think every choice they make changes their path toward that ultimate destination.

[wolfmaid7]

I don't think its a matter of them being true or no, but a matter of how they unfold. GRRM told a funny story about this i'll try to find it.But it comes back to even though you try to avoid it or change it it always happens but not in the way you may think.

[George48]

Yes, all prophecies are utterly false.

I don't understand people complaining about MAGIC in FANTASY series.
ASOIF still has less magic than 99,8 fantasy books

Maybe these people should read historical fiction, instead.

Actualy, they shouldn't.

Fantasy CAN have no magic whatsoever,or no prophecies, or no tropes stolen from Tolkien's backgarden.

The point of fantasy is that the AUTHOR CREATES THE WORLD, it can be anything, it can have anything and should not have to stick to a rigid format that is asociated high-fantasy.

Moving on: the prophecies are way too many and it is impossible for all of them to come true. I think old Georgie will just pull a fast one on people who are obssessed with them and read way too much into certain things and go for realism: they don't come true, things happen but if you interpret them in a certain way it will come true. For example: Cersei is executed and we find out that one of the witnesses against her had a bigger brother. Or humanity (AA) pushes back the Others after killing their ressurected families (Nissa Nissa) with fire (lightbringer)

[Trogdor Targaryen]

If it is taken as prophecy as soon as it is heard, probably false. If some blabbering fool says some seemingly incoherent ramblings with no clear meaning, probably true.

if someone hears a prophecy and says, " Oh, that means me!" They are far from it. If someone makes a prophecy, their interpretation is wrong.

Prophecies are made to be interpreted after they are fulfilled. Not before.

[TimJames]

I hope this is the case.

I get annoyed whenever someone writes Tommen and Myrcella off as "good as dead" for no other reason than that an old woman without and confirmed magical abilities told Cersei this once.