Pikachu101 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Rhaegar may have caused RR, but that ended years ago.Cersei and Catelyn caused tWot5K. Can people please stop blaming Cat!!! Tyrion's arrest changed NOTHING! This war was always going to happen because Robert's heir was actually an incestuous bastard, Stannis was already planning for war, Ned was still going to find out, Littlefinger was still scheming etc. If I'm going to blame anyone I blame the Lannister twins, it takes two to tango so you can't blame only one :dunno: Also here's a list people (no particular order) you can blame BEFORE Cat!Jaime LannisterCersei LannisterLittlefingerRobert BaratheonLysa ArrynLittlefingerStannis BaratheonJon ArrynNed StarkJoffrey BaratheonTywin LannisterVarysRhaegar TaragryenLyanna StarkBrandon StarkAerys Targaryen Renly Baratheon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatOfThe_Canals Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I'm going to say Aegon I... It's not even the Mad Kings fault he's mad, so much targy incest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibzit Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I'm going to say Aegon I... It's not even the Mad Kings fault he's mad, so much targy incest Targ Incsest wasn't Aegon I's Invention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Winchester Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Probably somewhat unfair of me, but I've always blamed Sansa for selling out her family to Cersei. Everyone else I expect to do terrible things and be generally bad people, but she is a Stark ffs, the standard is higher. One of the reasons I've never been able to warm to her as a character. Its all her fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatOfThe_Canals Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Targ Incsest wasn't Aegon I's Invention Yeah, true. I guess he brought it all to Westeros though, which is one of the roots of the issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I love Ned (Ned and Davos are my two favs) but he shouldn't have told Cersei. Cersei herself says that she killed Robert sooner than she would have because of Ned. Ned doesn't tell Cersei. Cersei doesn't move against Robert. Robert returns from hunt. Ned tells Robert. Robert executes Cersei, Jaime, possibly all three of the children. That stops Stannis and Renly, forces LF to switch plans, forces Tywin to either start a civil war, or retreat to the Rock. I think he might choose to retreat, as even a whiff of incest would so humiliate the Lannisters that they might find it difficult to find allies. Also, if Robert is free of Cersei, he could offer a marriage alliance to, say, the Tyrells. Ned remains Hand. Robb remains at WF. War of the Five Kings doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Yeah, true. I guess he brought it all to Westeros though, which is one of the roots of the issues. Incest seems to be practiced by others besides the Targs too, Tywin married his 1st cousin, and so did Ned's parents, Of course the brother/sister thing seems to be unique to the Targs though, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Everything can be traced back to Manfred Lothson. If he hadn't betrayed Daemon, then the Blackfyres would've won. That means no Aerys, no Rhaegar, no Robert, no Varys (presumably). No war of the Ninepenny Kings, so Littlefinger never happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Everything can be traced back to Manfred Lothson. If he hadn't betrayed Daemon, then the Blackfyres would've won. That means no Aerys, no Rhaegar, no Robert, no Varys (presumably). No war of the Ninepenny Kings, so Littlefinger never happens. If Daenys the Dreamer dreamed of pretty boys instead of the Doom, then there would be no Daemon :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reckoner Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 The whole thing was set into motion by individuals responding to the events around them. I don't see how one can logically place the sole blame on one individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser RoddyRuinuous Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Bloodraven. He's been warging into everything, messing with people's dreams and thus their perceptions. He set up everything from Summerhall onward, leading to the current generations of characters being born to their specific parents, in order to lead to Bran taking over as head administrator of the WeirNet, dragons being reborn, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Cersei. If she hadn't been so slutty and done the twincest with Jaime, and born Roberts children as she was supposed to, there simply would be no war of the five kings at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Cersei. If she hadn't been so slutty and done the twincest with Jaime, and born Roberts children as she was supposed to, there simply would be no war of the five kings at all. Renly and Balon had no idea that Cersei was having an affair with Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderG Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Brandon Stark, Eddard's elder brother.If he had killed Littlefinger in the duel, a lot of intrigue doesn't happen. And if he doesn't ride to King's Landing to insult Rhaegar but lets his father deal with it, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 If Daenys the Dreamer dreamed of pretty boys instead of the Doom, then there would be no Daemon :)There you go, that's the culprit right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Quite often in a song of ice and fire, I repeatedly come across "This never would have happened if such and such..." So in your own personal opinion (entirely opinion orientated), who do you think is responsible for the sequence of events that follows in the series? I blame all the folks who make "What If" threads about a fictional story without the writers input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Daenys the Dreamer, if you know what I mean. I was going to say Aegon the Conqueror -- but perhaps this goes back to the First Men invading Westeros... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsug Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I think its def Cersei Lannister. Nearly every single storyline is influenced by her actions. I'd go as far as to say that without Cersei, the Mad King may still be alive (if Cersei hadn't made Jaime Kingsguard, Jaime would have never killed Aerys). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainGhost Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Brandon Stark, Eddard's elder brother.If he had killed Littlefinger in the duel, a lot of intrigue doesn't happen. And if he doesn't ride to King's Landing to insult Rhaegar but lets his father deal with it, who knows? This. It's all Brandon's fault. Not killing Littlefinger was catastrophic in hindsight. Plus he provoked the Mad King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Hand of the King Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I assume you are referring to TWO5K, in which case I would say Littlefinger holds the most blame. He set up the Jon Arryn poisoning, made the Starks suspect the Lannisters and fed Ned information that he knew would result in a conflict between the 2 houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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