Fraternal Order of Police Threads, Local #3

[The Notorious]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/nyregion/officers-deaths-acutely-felt-in-brooklyn.html?referrer=

"Bin Fin Liang, 56, said Officer Liu would drop by his restaurant supply shop on the way home from the Police Academy. Mr. Liang asked him why he wanted to be an officer.

I know that being a cop is dangerous but I must do it, Officer Liu replied, his friend said. If I dont do it and you dont do it, then who is going to do it?"

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/nyregion/officers-deaths-acutely-felt-in-brooklyn.html?referrer=

"Bin Fin Liang, 56, said Officer Liu would drop by his restaurant supply shop on the way home from the Police Academy. Mr. Liang asked him why he wanted to be an officer.

I know that being a cop is dangerous but I must do it, Officer Liu replied, his friend said. If I dont do it and you dont do it, then who is going to do it?"

It's terrible, my best friend works in that precinct.

[The Notorious]

Obviously there are a lot of corrupt aspects in these cases preventing justice from happening, including DA's suppressing evidence to protect their officers and citizens no longer understanding basic rights we have. The saddest thing is how brainwashed many people have become in believing that we should accept authoritarian, monstrous rule over us.

Cool story, bro.

Listen, you sounds very angry with such ridiculous declaration like "monstrous authoritarian". I think you should heed the president's word when he said that we are a nation of law. So if you've calmed down, do tell us about the evidences showing the DA's suppression of evidences in either the brown or garner grand jury.

[The Notorious]

No. All citizens, including the police, have the right to protest. They're only trouble makers if people get hurt or property is damaged.

Right on! Altherion, I know we don't always see eyes to eyes in many issues but that was the sanest and most reasonable statement made on this thread.

[awesome possum]

I finally found an example of a case where a cop gets fired, loses all appeals and is denied pension. Ready?

"Gregory Kwiatkowski turned Neal Mack around and started choking him. So then I'm like, 'Greg! You're choking him,' because I thought whatever happened in the house he was still upset about so when he didn't stop choking him I just grabbed his arm from around Neal Mack's neck," Horne said.

If the choke hold of a handcuffed suspect caught Horne off guard, it didn't prepare her for what she said Kwiatkowski did next.

"He comes up and punches me in the face and I had to have my bridge replaced," Horne said.

When she tried to defend herself other officers pulled her back and her shoulder was injured.

Following the incident, Horne was fired and charged with obstruction for "jumping on officer Kwiatkowski's back and/or striking him with her hands."

Officer Kiwatkowski's words seem to conflict with the charges. In a sworn statement he said, "she never got on top of me."

Horne lost every appeal, and with her 19-year career over, she didn't qualify for a pension.

Finally we see one of those crooked bastards served up justice... oh wait. She was fired to protect a guy who:

was forced to retire from the police department after he was suspended for choking another officer on the job, and in a separate incident, punching another officer when he was off the clock.

In May 2014, Kwiatowkski and two other officers were indicted on federal civil rights violations against black teen suspects.

Cool story, bro.

You're doing it wrong.

[Suttree]

You mad bro?

Why so scared to reply to Nestor?

Oh and for those DeBlasio's "stoking the fire" claims. Let's look at his actual words both before and after the shooting.

DE BLASIO: You cannot talk about social change and then commit an act of violence against a police officer. It makes no sense. It denigrates the cause. It undermines the legitimacy. It's illegal, it's wrong, it's immoral. [12/17/14]

DE BLASIO: This is what our democracy respects. This is what our democracy allows for, is people to make their voices heard peacefully, in an organized way - and that's what this group and others have been doing. I made very clear that we cannot accept any violence against our police officers or against anyone. And they were very quick to affirm that they were appalled equally by the events on Saturday night. They find it unacceptable and they will work with the police to identify anyone who seeks to harm the police or harm anyone and undermine their non-violent peaceful progressive movement. [ 12/19/14]

It's appalling that anyone would be would parroting the scream radio narrative on this one.

“We've talked about this so many times,” said Mayor Bill de Blasio. “I am not going to talk about it again. Now the question is, what are you guys going to do? Are you going to keep dividing us? … Let’s get real.

Just in that question, 25,000 people marched down one of our streets a few days back, absolutely peaceful, no chants like that, peacefully calling for what they believed in as American citizens. And the NYPD protected them and I told people, at the time I said repeatedly, that I got calls from all over this country with admiration for NYPD for the way they protected people's democratic rights. I heard from so many protesters who appreciated the NYPD. I heard from NYPD officers & leaders who said they saw peaceful protest, respectful protest.

What you managed to do is pull up the few who do not represent the majority, who are saying unacceptable things, who shouldn't be saying those things. And some who actually physically attack police officers which I said is absolutely unacceptable.

We will prosecute them to the fullest. Everyone must participate in finding those individuals. Providing information to the police. Intervening to stop them. Alerting the police. I will keep saying this over and over the question is will you tell the world about it. Because you all are part of this too.

So yes there are some bad people who say inappropriate things. There are some people who say hateful things. They have no place in these protests. They are not what I am talking about. I am talking about the vast majority of New Yorkers and vast majority of Americans who believe in peaceful democratic process. I don’t care where they are in the political spectrum. The vast majority of our citizens are good and decent people who do not say negative things, racist things nasty things to police, threatening things to police.

The few who want conflicts attempt that and unfortunately so many times you guys enable that. I don't see reports on the many decent good people. I don't see reports on the everyday cops who do the exemplary thing and hold the line and show restraint and discipline no matter what invective hurled at them."

The reporter then attempted to interrupt Mayor as if everything the mayor said went unsaid. The Mayor slammed back.

“You know what, I am telling you all over again that’s how you want to portray the world but we know a different reality," said Bill de Blasio. "There are some people who do that. It's wrong it's wrong they shouldn't do that. It's immoral It's wrong it’s nasty. It’s negative. They should not do that. But they my friend are not the majority. Stop portraying them as the majority."

[The Fallen]

Bell was suspected and eventually determined to be driving drunk. So that would seem a valid reason to arrest. That can go down one of two ways. You either comply or you try to resist. Compliance would not result on a scuffle. What's disingenuous or naive about that?

I clarified my repeated stance that it's a only a portion. Where's all the violence? Really? Perhaps you missed the burning and looting in Ferguson.

This isn't about one case. Is this idea you have that any physical altercation between a cop and a civilian is immediately resisting arrest or assaulting a police officer.

Yes, there was violence. But overall, the protests were not about committing violent acts. And what about the other side? What about the police officers who had to resign for things they did or said that were caught on video and/or social media? What about the military response by the police to peaceful protesters? You're trying to spin it so that the protesters can be seen as violent and up to no good.

The same goes with the killings of the two NYPD police officers. You're bending over backwards in your insinuation that the protests in NYC, and Mayor de Blasio's comments about the reality his son has to deal with as a minority when interacting with the police, are somehow responsible for the actions of a deranged man.

It's also interesting that the response from the PBA (Patrolmen's Benevolent Association) is exactly the same as a cop's when they're challenged; intimidation and threats.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Cool story, bro.

Listen, you sounds very angry with such ridiculous declaration like "monstrous authoritarian". I think you should heed the president's word when he said that we are a nation of law. So if you've calmed down, do tell us about the evidences showing the DA's suppression of evidences in either the brown or garner grand jury.

If you are reading anger in my posts then you are reading them wrong. I have no anger about this, just concern. But there is no doubt you are being dismissive of everything. The suppression of the evidence is readily available with a quick perusal of even American news headlines, let alone good news agencies, so I will leave that to you.

[awesome possum]

You can't make this shit up. I mean you can, but then you'd just be taking away from reality. San Francisco Cop facing four felony charges after attacking a man for falling asleep in a hospital while waiting for an appointment.

A San Francisco sheriff’s deputy is facing four felony charges and a misdemeanor after he randomly assaulted a sleeping patient at S.F. General Hospital and then lied about it.

The 33-year old deputy, Michael R. Lewelling, filed an official police report in November of this year claiming that the victim had assaulted him with a wooden cane. The victim was then arrested and charged with a felony and a misdemeanor.

However, surveillance footage of the assault shows that it was Lewelling that approached a sleeping man, and actually assaulted him

...

After reviewing the surveillance footage, prosecutors issued an arrest warrant for Lewelling for perjury, filing a false police report, filing a false instrument and assault under the color of authority. He also faces a misdemeanor count of battery.

To protect and serve... hospital chairs from sleeping asses?

It's appalling that anyone would be would parroting the scream radio narrative on this one.

That's our Lev. On some issues he's so far to the left that he ends up ass-to-ass with our conservatarians (or would that be libertaritives?).

[1918me]

You can't make this shit up. I mean you can, but then you'd just be taking away from reality. San Francisco Cop facing four felony charges after attacking a man for falling asleep in a hospital while waiting for an appointment.

I hate the fact that when I read this, my initial reaction was "Good, at least he's facing charges for it," rather than "What an atrocity!"

[davos]

What is being downplayed in regards to the killing of the 2 NYPD officers, is the context of the perpetrators long history of criminal violence and mental health issues. Its also frequently not mentioned at all, or only in passing, that this individual attempted to kill his ex-girlfriend earlier that same day. While the current charged atmosphere regarding police may have helped inspire these acts, blaming the protests for them is like blaming the Beatles for Charles Manson's crimes, Jodi Foster for the attempt on President Reagan's life, or The Catcher in the Rye for John Lennon's murder. This in no way condones the minority of protesters that have called violence. The actions of a mentally unstableble and dangerous individual, however vile and horrific, should not be used to discredit a movement or invalidate its grievances.

Violence against police is wrong. So is unjustified police violence against the public. We, as a nation, are addicted to violence and are not willing to address the current crisis as the inevitable outcome of choices we have made as a society over the last 30 or 40 years.

[Relic]

nm

[Shryke]

What is being downplayed in regards to the killing of the 2 NYPD officers, is the context of the perpetrators long history of criminal violence and mental health issues. Its also frequently not mentioned at all, or only in passing, that this individual attempted to kill his ex-girlfriend earlier that same day. While the current charged atmosphere regarding police may have helped inspire these acts, blaming the protests for them is like blaming the Beatles for Charles Manson's crimes, Jodi Foster for the attempt on President Reagan's life, or The Catcher in the Rye for John Lennon's murder. This in no way condones the minority of protesters that have called violence. The actions of a mentally unstableble and dangerous individual, however vile and horrific, should not be used to discredit a movement or invalidate its grievances.

Violence against police is wrong. So is unjustified police violence against the public. We, as a nation, are addicted to violence and are not willing to address the current crisis as the inevitable outcome of choices we have made as a society over the last 30 or 40 years.

The very fact that he shot his GF first and then himself afterwords should be a huge red flag for "mental issues" to anyone who's read articles on more then like 5 shootings. A political motive looks unlikely even from the basic details.

[zelticgar]

Another black teen shot and killed by the police - two miles from Ferguson. This time the dead man was apparently armed. I have a feeling we will see more of these if this escalates. Cops are going to be walking on eggshells and bad characters are going to become embolden by the backlash against police. Its not a good combination.

I really think this whole issue is driven by a small number of bad actors on either side:

• The thugs not following laws and antagonizing the cops into physical action in order to keep order - Michael Brown
  
• The officers that overstep their bounds and end up using disproportion force in order to show they mean business - Eric Garner.
  

[SkynJay]

Belmar said the officer has a body camera, but he wasn't wearing the device, which wasn't assigned to him. And while his police cruiser has a dashboard camera, he said that it wasn't on because the car's lights weren't on.

NPR Article.

[The Fallen]

NPR Article.

Thanks for the link. The video ends before the shooting. At the end, it does look like one of the two young men raises his arm as if he's pointing at the cop.

A line has to be drawn, and threatening, assaulting, pointing a gun at or shooting a police officer crosses that line. At that point all bets are off and you can expect law enforcement to respond with full might. It's one thing to defend yourself against a cop and quite another to initiate a confrontation.

If the story from the police department checks out then I think most people will agree that the cop did what he felt he had to do to avoid getting shot and possibly killed and to end the threat in general.

I'm always amazed that any sane person would choose to initiate a violent confrontation with a cop.

[awesome possum]

NPR Article.

"There are no winners here. There are nothing but losers," said St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar

Pretty much sums it up.

[The Fallen]

I'm assuming this is the right thread for this post.

I just came across the story of Brandon Duncan a.k.a. Tiny Doo, a rapper who's in jail and being prosecuted because of his music. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/11/24/the-prosecution-of-tiny-doo/). The prosecutor is trying to use a law that criminalizes being in, knowing, and benefiting from gang activities. Oh, yeah, did I mention Tiny Doo has no criminal record?

But there’s another problem, here. If you read the Popehat blog with any regularity, you’ll know that Ken White is a smart guy with a lot of criminal law experience. After reading the law, the complaint against Duncan, a California Supreme Court opinion on the law, and consulting with a source familiar with the charges, White still isn’t clear on what’s going on in this case. Laws need to be clear, narrowly written and precise. With respect to clarity, you can’t expect the public to abide by laws they don’t understand. There are of course some exceptions. Laws governing complicated financial transactions, for example, will necessarily seem complicated and confusing to the general public. But even here, the laws should still be easily understood by the people at whom those laws are targeted.

With respect to precision, laws that lack specificity give prosecutors far too much discretion. Too much discretion is an opportunity to apply laws selectively. When laws are broadly applied selectively, you’re no longer government by the rule of law, but by the rule of men and women, which inevitably means the rule of politics.

For the resident lawyers, please reassure me that this won't hold up in court. Because if it does I'm off to Sweden.

ETA:

In a similar vein, a man in NYC was arrested because someone overheard him threatening to kill a cop during a phone conversation. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/man-arrested-threatening-kill-cops-police-article-1.2056504) They stopped him and found a bag of weed in the front seat of his car, no major crime. They then searched his house - I'm assuming without a warrant because they stress that the wife consented to the search - and found guns, one which had been defaced.

Payamps, sporting a gray hoodie, was arraigned Thursday on charges that include weapon and pot possession, aggravated harassment and criminal impersonation. He did not speak during the brief appearance.

“He was one step away from making good on his word,” prosecutor Talia Seidel said in court of Payamps’ alleged vow to kill a white cop, arguing that bail be set at $1 million.

One step away? There's no evidence of that other than the word of one guy who overheard a phone conversation. And aggravated harrassment? How can they prove this without an actual recording or Payamps confessing? Now, this Payamps guy seems like a scumbag, but this seems like reaching to me.

But this is the scariest part of the story (in bold),

The NYPD has investigated about 40 anti-cop threats. Officers have sifted through hundreds of threatening 911 and 311 calls and pored over online postings since Saturday’s assassinations.

What happened to first amendment rights?

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

For some reason, your link is to this page

ETA:

Quote

The NYPD has investigated about 40 anti-cop threats. Officers have sifted through hundreds of threatening 911 and 311 calls and pored over online postings since Saturday’s assassinations.

Isn't that less than the number of threats Anita Sarkeesian received?

[The Fallen]

For some reason, your link is to this page

I'll fix it.