Greymoon Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Yes, he wrote both those things that have nothing in common with each other. Sansa's "suitors" mostly come from the Great Houses of Westeros, champions at the tourney, too. Of course there's going to be overlap. If it weren't for the name Hardying, no one would even have paid attention - of course every story is going to feature a Baratheon, Targaryen, Tyrell etc. You still haven't explained 1) why is "Baratheon, Tyrell, Lannister, Hardying, Targaryen" interpreted as "names of Sansa's suitors" when one of the people she has been betrothed to is an Arryn? And she hasn't been courted by a Targaryen, so you need confirmation bias to even draw that conclusion. 2) How does the tourney at Ashford lead to the conclusion that Sansa will marry Aegon? None of them won the tourney, it wasn't even completed; none of them were suitors to lord Ashford's daughter (who was neither beautiful, according to Dunk, nor coming from a super-highborn and prestigious family that would be likely to marry into the likes of Targaryens) and she didn't marry any of them, as far as we know. I 'still' haven't explained, because this is not my theory. I find that the Sansa/Aegon match makes sense in its own right. It happens to fit with that theory; but I neither came up with it, nor did I use it as an argument to justify Aegon + Sansa. Mithras Stormborn wanted to dismiss it, I said it's not necessary, because it actually works, though only if fAegon is the last match. If one takes that theory to argue in favor for Jon being one of her suitors, it falls apart. In no way does that theory constitute my reasoning for the Aegon + Sansa match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I always took the lack of a "Arryn" in the 5th Suitor Theory as either:1.) Robin wasn't truly engaged to Sansa. Lysa was just proposing the idea. (I'll have to re-read what Lysa said to Sansa. I don't truly remember.) OR...2.) Sansa will end up marrying Sweetrobin (instead of HtH) to gain power over the Vale. Or perhaps just to save Sweetrobin from being murdered by LF. (Perhaps that's the controversal Sansa chapter? :dunno: )ETA: 3.) Robin is a Secret Targaryen! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Eh, it has nothing to do with her, and everything to do with the fact that they are essentially brother and sister and they would never do such a thing. Because brothers and sisters never do such things in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The idea of Jon and Sansa hooking up is as distasteful to me as Jon and Dany. Now, Jon and Dany and Sansa, there's an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I always took the lack of a "Arryn" in the 5th Suitor Theory as either: 1.) Robin wasn't truly engaged to Sansa. Lysa was just proposing the idea. (I'll have to re-read what Lysa said to Sansa. I don't truly remember.) OR... 2.) Sansa will end up marrying Sweetrobin (instead of HtH) to gain power over the Vale. Or perhaps just to save Sweetrobin from being murdered by LF. (Perhaps that's the controversal Sansa chapter? :dunno: ) ETA: 3.) Robin is a Secret Targaryen! :P Lysa mentioned it to her but they had to wait for Tyrion to die. Basicly she is just Lysa's ward and she has to marry whoever Lysa wants there would be no need for any kind of contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The idea of Jon and Sansa hooking up is as distasteful to me as Jon and Dany. Now, Jon and Dany and Sansa, there's an idea. tripcest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I'm just trying to say that in Westeros when two people get married it's usually an arrenged marriage and the feelings of the people involved don't matter. You don't fall in love and get married, you get married and then fall in love.. or not. Do you think that Jon and Sansa will get to decide by themselves who they are going to marry. It's difficult to argue about this, because I obviously see Jon and Sansa's current relationship in a different way than most people here. Of course. Who else would? Their parents are dead. Robb, who could have played the role of the guardian/king to Sansa, is also dead. Jon is already 'a man grown' by Westerosi standards, and has been in position of power as LC. The king that the NW directly depended on for help, Stannis, was not able to convince Jon to accept legitimization, dismissal from NW, Winterfell and marriage to Val. Sansa's 'guardian' at the moment is her fake "father" Petyr Baelish, who would not be in that position if people knew she was Sansa Stark - and her arc is shaping up to be about her finally turning the tables on him, but let's say she never is free of him - he sure wouldn't try to marry her to Jon. But it's pretty clear that GRRM is preparing the young Starks - at least those with a POV - to be major players in the resolution of the series, rather than eternal pawns who only get to obey whoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa Snow Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 yes, but like I said earlier Jon would be pressured by other people. Of course he wouldn't have to listen to them, but he would be wise to do so. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I always took the lack of a "Arryn" in the 5th Suitor Theory as either: 1.) Robin wasn't truly engaged to Sansa. Lysa was just proposing the idea. (I'll have to re-read what Lysa said to Sansa. I don't truly remember.) OR... The same would apply to Willas Tyrell. Olenna was just proposing the idea, it never got to the official stage. In the case of Willas, Sansa agreed. In case of SR, Lysa wasn't proposing anything, she was straight up ordering Sansa and telling her she had no choice since she was "little more than a beggar now". Because brothers and sisters never do such things in the story. No, everyone does that in the story, right? That's why N+L=J... :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Goat Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 ..with his 50% Blackwood, 25% Dayne and 12,5% Martell genes? :cool4: Rhaegar's parents both had Valyrian traits as their dominate ones. His grandparents as well. We can be reasonably sure that after those two outcomes the Blackwood and Dayne and Martell genes were fairly deep down the genepool. Yes I did notice, but the discussion was about Martell/Targ children specifically. But my reply wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Rhaegar's parents both had Valyrian traits as their dominate ones. His grandparents as well. We can be reasonably sure that after those two outcomes the Blackwood and Dayne and Martell genes were fairly deep down the genepool. There is no "deep down in the gene pool". Either Rhaegar had certain genes or he didn't. And they wouldn't be "Martell genes" or "Blackwood genes", they would be genes for specific traits, like brown eyes, purple eyes etc. But not having certain traits doesn't mean he didn't have the recessive genes for them and pass them to his children. If the silver hair and purple eyes are indeed dominant in their world, then he may have had genes for different eye/hair color, too, like brown eyes or dark hair.But remind me why this is being discussed in the first place, and what it has to do with Jon and Sansa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of thrones Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 If Jon is not really Ned's bastard, they aren't siblings or even half siblings. If Jon is the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna, then Sansa is his cousin. Cousin marriage is generally not considered incestuous and in large parts of the world is not considered unusual at all. There's several states in the USA that allow first cousins to marry.Re: the show, making a short actor appear taller than a tall character is pretty easy. Sophie Turner is only one inch taller than Kit Harrington. LOL. You are funny. They grew together as sister and brother. Actually a healthy man who isn't insane would rather marry his real sister that he wasn't aware of until that moment than a woman that isn't his real sister but grew together as sister and brother and find out later that she isn't. You know, there is a word.... Mother is the one who raise you, not the one who born you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taenqyrhae Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 LOL. You are funny. They grew together as sister and brother. Actually a healthy man who isn't insane would rather marry his real sister that he wasn't aware of until that moment than a woman that isn't his real sister but grew together as sister and brother and find out later that she isn't. You know, there is a word.... Mother is the one who raise you, not the one who born you. Very relevant saying. Catelyn was never a mother to Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Crow Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I'm a fan of Jon and Sansa getting married (I'm also a fan of Jon/Dany so I'm just Pro Joncest, I guess). I think they are compatible. They are learning skills that compliment each other well. Also their aspirations align incredibly well (down to the where they should live and baby names). I also believe that the exception made for Targaryens regarding incest is underestimated. A woman raised to believe that incest is an abomination goes on to suggest that her son should marry his half-sister. Later on she is completley fine with him marrying his full sister. Jon definitley has reasons he would want to work past his problems with incest (if he has one). His father was a product of incest and his children if they are raised with the knowledge that they are Targaryens might practice incest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brandon Badwater Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Will she get a divorce from tl first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of thrones Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Very relevant saying. Catelyn was never a mother to Jon. LOL, you seem to not have a bigger iq than a potato. The saying was something metaphorical and had nothing to do with catalyn or jon mother. We are talking about his sister. LOL. Worst thread ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Stark-Targaryen Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I'm a fan of Jon and Sansa getting married (I'm also a fan of Jon/Dany so I'm just Pro Joncest, I guess). I think they are compatible. They are learning skills that compliment each other well. Also their aspirations align incredibly well (down to the where they should live and baby names). I also believe that the exception made for Targaryens regarding incest is underestimated. A woman raised to believe that incest is an abomination goes on to suggest that her son should marry his half-sister. Later on she is completley fine with him marrying his full sister. Jon definitley has reasons he would want to work past his problems with incest (if he has one). His father was a product of incest and his children if they are raised with the knowledge that they are Targaryens might practice incest. Which woman was this? You lost me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 LOL, you seem to not have a bigger iq than a potato. The saying was something metaphorical and had nothing to do with catalyn or jon mother. We are talking about his sister. LOL. Worst thread ever. Then refrain from posting in it. If you disagree..then say so...if you want to insult...then move on. Remember, we're all here because we have this series in common. Everyone is allowed their own interpretation of the text and allowed to come up with their own theories. No one forced you to post in this thread. If you want to offer a tangible counter argument...we are all ears...if not...find someway to waste your time that doesn't waste ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaechyll Targaryen Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Everytime someone suggest the possibility of Jon and Sansa marrying each other the arguments against it are usually that they are brother and sister and have no romantic feelings for each other, but do you really think that IF there were a reason for these two marrying for political reasons anyone wanting this marriage to happen would care for Jon and Sansa's icky feelings. I don't even believe they would feel disgusted about the idea of marrying each other. It would probably feel weird at first, but eventually they would grow to love each other. I agree. Like I said before I basically think that they could end up being improved versions of Ned and Catelyn. I would also like to point out that I never said that Sansa doesn't view Jon as a brother. What I said was that Sansa doesn't view Jon as a brother in the way that the other Stark kids do. They all seem close to him and they all seem to feel that he's a full brother to them in all but name. With Sansa there was a distance and I think out of all of the Stark siblings that she was the most effected by Catelyn's attitude towards Jon. I don't think it'll be difficult for Jon and Sansa to adjust to seeing each other as cousins because they were never close to begin with. Besides this tourney where else is it written that Sansa will marry a Targ? I thought it was foreshadowed when Sansa wrapped herself in Sandor's white cloak and GRRM deliberately uses the words blood and fire when describing the state of the cloak she's wrapping herself in so that she can feel protection. (I acknowledged that it could be foreshadowing of a marriage to Tyrion as well.) Anyway, it isn't as though the Stark family tree doesn't have any incest in it. It's not like it's wildly out of the question especially since they're more than likely only cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taenqyrhae Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Will she get a divorce from tl first? No, Jon will just make Sansa a widow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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