I Don't Understand the Tyrells

[Bright Blue Eyes]

They are descendants of a king too so are many others which is a problem but it's the same for the greyjoy they claim to be the blood of the grey king but the greyiron's and the good brothers were also kings at one time and even more of them were kings in their history then the greyjoys. the problem to me still is the reach is really hard to defend even with all those men and cannot really attack anyone with impunity.

Well, considering that the Ironborn actually voted for the Greyjoys (and the Riverlords did something very similar for the Tullys), and that both Houses were vastly more respected than the Tyrells anyway, that makes a difference.

That the Hightowers told the Tyrells were to stick it during the Dance of Dragons is another factor. Nor did the Tyrells have any authority durng the Blackfyre Rebellions.

[TheSovereignGrave]

They are descendants of a king too so are many others which is a problem but it's the same for the greyjoy they claim to be the blood of the grey king but the greyiron's and the good brothers were also kings at one time and even more of them were kings in their history then the greyjoys. the problem to me still is the reach is really hard to defend even with all those men and cannot really attack anyone with impunity.

They're related through the female line, and that's it. And it's not the same for the Greyjoys. There were plenty of Greyjoy Kings in the past, but there has never been a Tyrell sitting on a throne in the entirety of Westerosi history. Plus the Greyirons are all dead and the Goodbrothers claim to be descendants of the Grey King's brother.

[239JMFL34109]

They're related through the female line, and that's it. And it's not the same for the Greyjoys. There were plenty of Greyjoy Kings in the past, but there has never been a Tyrell sitting on a throne in the entirety of Westerosi history. Plus the Greyirons are all dead and the Goodbrothers claim to be descendants of the Grey King's brother.

Never was a baratheon king till robert and it was also a relation through a female line that gave him the claim too right? not that really matter we are given a lot of evidence that someone else could claim the throne there two ned just pushes rob as he has the better claim and is a good leader of men in battle.

Again i have to just look at ability rather than authority that matters.

[ambi76]

They are not supposed to be understandable (yet) says GRRM. :dunno:

[TheSovereignGrave]

Never was a baratheon king till robert and it was also a relation through a female line that gave him the claim too right? not that really matter we are given a lot of evidence that someone else could claim the throne there two ned just pushes rob as he has the better claim and is a good leader of men in battle.

Again i have to just look at ability rather than authority that matters.

That was different. There was a Rebellion that ended with the death or exile of every Targaryen in Westeros; they needed a King, and Robert was the one chosen. It wasn't as though the rebels declared Robert as their King and then fought Aerys to overthrow him and put Robert on the throne. Plus, Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen while the last Gardener in the Tyrell bloodline was centuries ago.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Never was a baratheon king till robert and it was also a relation through a female line that gave him the claim too right? not that really matter we are given a lot of evidence that someone else could claim the throne there two ned just pushes rob as he has the better claim and is a good leader of men in battle.

Again i have to just look at ability rather than authority that matters.

About 8,000 years of Stormkings flying the crowned Stag, shouting "Ours is the fury!" and ruling from Storms End want a word with you. That one rapist in the glorious line, nobody cared about him 20 years later.

[239JMFL34109]

About 8,000 years of Stormkings flying the crowned Stag, shouting "Ours is the fury!" and ruling from Storms End want a word with you. That one rapist in the glorious line, nobody cared about him 20 years later.

all which they took from the family that they married into when they killed him and took his daughter for wife. another female line so it doesn't seem to matter that much on the other hand winning the war seems to matter more.

[Wmarshal]

They've got one major disadvantage though: No authority. Upjumped stewards, no more. All those important families have their own ideas, and they barely tolerate the Tyrells interfering in them.

They have authority, as many a house is either married into their house or part of their encircle. The only rebels are cry babies who lost alot during the Targ reign and Florents, who leader currently is in the hands of papa Hightower.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

all which they took from the family that they married into when they killed him and took his daughter for wife. another female line so it doesn't seem to matter that much on the other hand winning the war seems to matter more.

Well, that's what I was referring to with the rapist who was forgotten twenty years later. Baratheon is 99.9999% Durrandon and 0.0001% Orys.

They have authority, as many a house is either married into their house or part of their encircle. The only rebels are cry babies who lost alot during the Targ reign and Florents, who leader currently is in the hands of papa Hightower.

Damn recently, and more of a partnership for mutual advancement instead of obedience. Disrespecting their opinions would be unwise, and they'll never all have the same opinion.

[TheSovereignGrave]

all which they took from the family that they married into when they killed him and took his daughter for wife. another female line so it doesn't seem to matter that much on the other hand winning the war seems to matter more.

But you actually have to have the nobles of the Reach to want to go to war first. I don't see them going to war to make a Tyrell King of the Reach.

[239JMFL34109]

But you actually have to have the nobles of the Reach to want to go to war first. I don't see them going to war to make a Tyrell King of the Reach.

again ability tyrells never have had the ability to control the reach all together let alone control much else. less important is "authority"

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Upjumped stewards with bannermen who have more right to Highgarden than them and the power to match their ambition, also they fought on the wrong side of the rebellion so with Robert and Stannis around they are getting nowhere.

[myufa]

We've only seen the flower part. We are yet to see the thorns

[John Doe]

They've got one major disadvantage though: No authority. Upjumped stewards, no more. All those important families have their own ideas, and they barely tolerate the Tyrells interfering in them.

Where has this been shown in the books? Tarley and Rowan where nothing but loyal servants so far and the Redwynes only hesitated first because on of their sons was a hostage. So we only have the Hightowers.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Where has this been shown in the books? Tarley and Rowan where nothing but loyal servants so far and the Redwynes only hesitated first because on of their sons was a hostage. So we only have the Hightowers.

For example the Florents. But it's mentioned a couple of times during dialogue. The QoT for example tells Sansa about it.

Most examples are indeed outside the main series. TWoIaF, the Blackfyre Rebellions, the Dance of Dragons. During the main series, the Tyrells are in an unusually strong position, with the marriage alliances to Hightower and Redwyne still alive.

[Lee-Sensei]

The Tyrells have more influence than the Starks and arguably the Lannisters at this point.

[Petyr's Little Finger]

The Tyrells were only given authority over the Reach after Aegon came, unlike the Tullys they never really commanded the full respect of their vassals. They have a lot of powerful vassals like the Florents, Redwynes, Tarlys and especially the Hightowers.

They are only in a position of power now, because of Renly's scheming to get Margaery to marry Robert, of course that didn't happen and Renly married Margaery. After Renly's death they attached themselves to the Lannisters. They have never been in a stronger position.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Remember that it was peaceful Gardener kings who were remarkable, that is also true for Tyrells, I think. They are not rich blondes, or cold skinchangers, they tame the pack that attacks them.

I fully respect Aegon's decision, it was a Tyrell who put that Gardener back to his throne, not Florents, Oakhearts or Redwynes. (Aegon probably didnt care about this, but I do)

And yes, the Tyrells were suprisingly absent at court during the Targaryen reign. I start to think it was a good idea :p

[Frances Bean Corbray]

They understand -- seemingly better than any other power playing house in Westeros -- that the carrot can be more powerful than the stick.

Maybe it's because their wealth and power comes from agriculture -- The Reach is the breadbasket of the empire.

Maybe it's because they know they don't really have the lineage and that they rule their vassals in part because their vassals allow it.

Rather than following the model of the Rickard Stark/Hoster Tully super-coalition, The Tyrells still consolidate power via vertical integration: Olenna was born a Redwynne, Mace's wife is a Hightower, Garlan's wife is a Fossoway. A Tarly runs their army for them. Give the vassals a stake; they profit when the Tyrells profit, and suddenly it's better for everybody to just let them be on top.

Your army is a resource that gets weaker every time you use it. So the Tyrells avoid using it whenever possible. Now it's the hammer in King's Landing, while the Lannisters are a spent force; even without the brain-drain of Tywin and Kevan's death and Tyrion's exile, they've got nothing. Only Daven (the only competent Lannister commander left?) still has a force, and he's too far away and about to be too busy defending the home turf and/or keeping the Freys from killing each other to worry about exerting Lannister will on King's Landing. The King may be of their blood but they are the junior partner in the ruling bloc now. The Tyrells call the shots: hence Mace and Randyl Tarly blowing off the "Aegon" invasion. "We Won't Do Shit, Until You Acquit."

And all they had to do was be patient, nurture, and not die. Like a botanist. Or a Gardener. Growing Strong. A Rose for a sigil, instead of something more obviously badass like a wolf or a lion or a kraken or a crowned skull on a black field [METAL~!]

But of course, now they do have to start spending their army, because Euron Greyjoy has the Ironborn gettin' crunk on shade of the evening and nostalgia for The Old Way, and when a liege does not protect his vassals, those vassals will quickly find themselves a new liege. Particularly House Tyrell's vassals, many of whom were Targaryen loyalists (with varying degrees of zeal) and most of whom have every bit as good a blood claim to Highgarden as they do (as Olenna somewhat mockingly told Sansa/us "Garth Greenhand? Honey, every damn family in the reach can trace their lineage back to Garth fucking Greenhand. That ain't special!") And after all this time clad in the armor of underestimation -- being the junior partner -- now everyone knows they're the big dog and they have to like it. They are the ruling house in every way but name, and we will see how they handle having to play with the lead.

[giant snake]

Their energies seem to be directed towards consolidating their own wealth and with an old feud with Dorne. I think that having one of the most desirable regions in Westeros is part of what leads them to being more or less content.