Why weren't Ned's kids fostered?

[Pikachu101]

So, it could be something like " if jon cant leave then my children will stay too" from catelyn and ned accepted

:agree:

I don't think girls get fostered though :dunno:

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Ok, yeah, Cat is the one with bonds, but since she's a stark, then starks and Arryns are tied by blood. Also Jon Arryn though of Ned as a son.

No. Cat isn't a Stark by blood she is a consort so the Starks have no blood connections with the Arryns.

And yes, Sansa is four years older than Myrcella, the difference between a girl of 12 and a girl of 8 is a lot...

This isn't how it works. A companion or a lady in waiting and their mistress can have a big age difference, Age doesn't matter.

And how is Margeary even in the same level of Sansa? Sansa is the daughter of the Starks (one of the oldest lines in Westeros and close allies to the IT) and the eldest child of Lord Tully. While Marg is the fourth child of a guy who sided with Aerys....

Again this is not how it works. Sansa isn't the only daughter of the 2nd richest family in Westeros who controls maybe the most fertile region and whose mother is a Hightower. Humor me in Westeros which name do you think that is more prestigious; Hightower or Tully? Sansa is one of the two daughters of an ancient but poor house who rules maybe the most infertile region and has zero social life.

Arianne could be indeed a bit on top since she's heir to Dorne, but other than her and princes Myrcella, Sansa is in top of the food chain of single ladies, so her chances of staying at someone else castle was pretty much nonexistent.

Sorry but how on GRRTH and sinse you said that Arianne and Myrcella were at the top Sansa can be at the top too?

Also if Myrcella could be fostered there is no reason why Sansa couldn't be fostered.

[Musashisamurai]

Myrcella was fostered because Tyrion wanted one of Cersei's kids out of KL before Stannis attacked, plus she is betrothed to Trystane Martell, the same house she is being fostered at.

Of the Stark kids, the only two I really see being fostered (had Jon Arryn not died and Robert gone to Winterfell) are Bran with the Manderly's (who could have knighted Bran) or the Tully's (this includes the Blackfish in the Vale, Bran's great-uncle, a renowned knight in the service to Ned's foster father.). Of the two, I see Rivverun or Vale more likely. The only other one I see being fostered is Jon, but Ned seemed to make sure that Jon didn't leave Winterfell. Still, I am surprised that when catelyn asked for him to leave in AGOT, Ned never said "Okay, I won't force him on you while I'm not there. He can go live with Howland for a bit, and if he still wants to be in the NW, he can swear an oath when he's a little older").

Then again, anyone with an ounce of political knowledge would have kept Jon out of the NW. Then, If Ned was betrayed by the Lannisters and Robert either dead or on their side, Ned could have whipped out Jon, got support from the Crownland nobles and the North, and take KL pretty quickly. Robert had no (blood) connections to Rivverun or the Vale

[SnowCastle]

Maybe Ned knew that Robert might take it as a slight if he sent the boys anywhere but KL, and he probably didn't relish the thought of his kids there.

[The Wolves]

:agree:

I don't think girls get fostered though :dunno:

They do I think Anya Waynwood is fostering a Frey girl whose mother is a Waynwood.

[Ser Belwas The Strong]

I think what shocks me the most, is Jon not being sent to squire for someone, he has shown skill with the sword and surely will be excited to become a knight, it will solve the problem of Catelyn not wanting him in Winterfell and giving him a life and independence, surely some Knight will be pleased to gain favor with the Lord of Winterfell by taken his bastard son as squire.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I think what shocks me the most, is Jon not being sent to squire for someone, he has shown skill with the sword and surely will be excited to become a knight, it will solve the problem of Catelyn not wanting him in Winterfell and giving him a life and independence, surely some Knight will be pleased to gain favor with the Lord of Winterfell by taken his bastard son as squire.

Jon is a Stark and a follower of the Seven. He cannot be a knight.

Also if Ned promised Lyanna to raise and protect Jon by sending him away he would had lied to Lyanna. So sending him away was out of the question and as Cat said

Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away.

[naseridrl]

No. Cat isn't a Stark by blood she is a consort so the Starks have no blood connections with the Arryns.

.

Well Ned has no blood connection but his kids are related by blood to Lord Robert Arryn, they're cousins.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Well Ned has no blood connection but his kids are related by blood to Lord Robert Arryn, they're cousins.

Yet he is the Lord of Winterfell. It's just a technicality.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

I've always thought that one of the flaws in Targaryen management of the 7K was that there wasn't more of a tradition of fostering. It seems so odd because this was just how things were done in feudal society.

I am sure that if the royalists had won RR, there would have been some forced wards. The heirs of the losing houses would have been fostered to loyalists, while rebels were put to the sword or sent to the Wall.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

He hadn't that many options out of the North. Maybe with house Tully, I had the feeling when Bran got older he could have gone with his uncle Edmure as he also wanted to become a knight and in the North they don't have those customs, but for a few houses, Bran could even be sent to the Manderlys, but I guess keeping the Tullys close would be ideal, they were bonded by marriage. Robb would remain in Winterfell, he was the heir. Rickon would be free to go wherever he liked, even if he wanted to go to the Night's Watch, I really doubt people would oppose his choice, maybe Catelyn would make a drama as she is not a Northener and had no great idea of how honorable is to serve in there (even if today the NW is not that great). Yes, she was used to the North, but she isn't one by blood or even born in there, so she just saw the NW fit to Jon as he was a bastard.

Jon could have been fostered to avoid conflicts, maybe with the Cerwyns, it was close, he could take it as a ward job and it wouldn't be like he was being sent away as Cerwyn is a half day on horse back.

But above all, I think Ned wanted everyone close, he had a great notion of the importance of a family united, despite the differences. Some fathers kind of send their sons away just to be left alone, not all of them, but some, yes, some see their children as burdens. Maybe Arya or Sansa would be fostered as well, Sansa always wanted to be in King's Landing, Arya maybe would remain as she preferred Winterfell.

We will never now about it though.

[239JMFL34109]

Until he hears the story of how Ned got him from his mother in Dorne or that his mother is Ashara Dayne and he travels to ToJ/Starfall/Some place and finds out everything. Or part of it.

Then Arianne would be trying to crown Rhaegar's son.

yeah Ned wants people to forget jon even exists. also i could totally see ned suggesting Rob be fostered somewhere only to have Cat put her foot down so to have Robb or any of her children fostered is Jon has to be sent away as well. Ned want jon to go to the wall i think too i the books just so he can be like "oh him joined the night's watch, never think about him again"

[Fae Boleyn]

Jon is a Stark and a follower of the Seven. He cannot be a knight.

Also if Ned promised Lyanna to raise and protect Jon by sending him away he would had lied to Lyanna. So sending him away was out of the question and as Cat said

I think you meant not a follower of the Seven, and that's not a hard and fast rule. Do we know if Jorah ever switched faiths? What about Ser Rodrik, he's a northerner, or Alyn who was going to be a knight? Or the knight at White Harbor, Ser Bartimus, who explicitly tells Davos he worships the old gods?

In White Harbor I'm sure Jon could have held vigil in a godswood and skipped the seven oils if they were being fancy. And if not, well.,"Any knight can make a knight." Ned has raised and protected Jon, but seemingly made no plans for his future, which seems contrary to any promise made to Lyanna if such was made. As Jon's guardian, regardless of exact blood tie, it was Ned's job to have some plan in mind or at least talk it over with Jon. Jon relates his reasoning for joining the NW; his half brothers (or cousins) have futures, he doesn't. That's on Ned. Sending him off to squire now, at fourteen, isn't violating his promise - if Jon is enough a man to take NW vows he's enough a man to be a squire in White Harbor.

And Jon doesn't explain why, if Ned felt unable to foster his children, he didn't foster other northern highborns, especially given what we now know of northern opinion regarding Rickard's southern connections. Jon doesn't explain why there were no discussed betrothals - Robb should have been up for discussion at least, possibly Sansa too, yet there's no mention when lords are trying to get Robb's attention when they muster or when Cat meets with Walder Frey.

Even taking a need to hide Jon into account, Ned still comes out having not thought things through.

[Jane99]

What an interesting topic! It's made me finally stop lurking...

First off, I can understand them not being fostered. Catelyn's strongly maternal, and Ned's already lost a lot of family so I can see how he'd want to keep his kids close, or at least in easy reach in case things turn to custard. That said, if the kids were to be fostered at some stage, this is where I'd reckon they'd go.

Robb's the heir, so he'd stay in the North to cement ties through fostering. He'd go to the Manderleys. Ned can teach him military skills and all round leadership, but if Robb's going to run the North one day he also needs a good understanding of economics and trade. White Harbour is the only city in the North, so it's going to be the best place to learn these things. The Manderleys are loyal and clever, so they'd have no problem taking and teaching him.

Sansa and Bran would go south. Sansa because as the elder daughter, it's her job, essentially, to marry and marry well. Expanding her social skills and social circle helps with this. Bran wants to be a knight, and he can't do that in the North. Because Catelyn and Ned are over-protective (with some reason, in Ned's case) they'd want them relatively close with people that they trust absolutely - so one would go to the Vale, and the other to Riverrun.

But Hoster's a widower and Edmure's a bachelor, so it wouldn't make much sense to send Sansa to Riverrun without a lady of the house to oversee her social education. She'd go to the Vale. Granted, Lysa isn't the greatest, but the Royce family is there, and Anya Waynwood, and none of them would let anything happen to Sansa. It's not the political hotbed of King's Landing but it's a step in the right direction.

Bran would then by default go to Riverrun. Edmure's not the brightest but he loves his family and is a kind man, so whether Bran squired for him or another Riverrun knight, he'd be conscientious about looking after him.

Arya would not go to Dorne. Not only is it ridiculously far away, but she has a direwolf. Those things have evolved for the environment beyond the Wall - glaciers and snowstorms and WINTER. The minute Nymeria puts one heavily-furred paw in the desert, the poor thing'll keel over with heatstroke. No. She'd go to the Mormonts, who with the exception of idiot Jorah are a fairly canny bunch, I've always thought. The girls are taught to fight, but you can't tell me that Maege hasn't instilled in them the ability to behave like typical ladies, should they choose. Of course, she'd have instilled it as a potential tactic rather than expected behaviour, so I wouldn't be surprised if Arya came back with better sword AND social skills.

Jon likewise would not go to Dorne. It's too far away, and his mother's face might well jog some memories and lead to uncomfortable questions. Ned hasn't spent all his life trying to keep that boy safe to risk exposing him now, so he'd foster close, with the only person that Ned would trust to know the importance of keeping a close eye on things: Howland Reed, at Greywater Watch. Bonus points if it encourages a match between Jon and Meera, and a potential pairing to restore Moat Cailin.

Rickon is too young to foster as yet, but Shaggydog's wild nature indicates a strong personality. He'd stay North too, and be fostered with a physically imposing family with a strong military background to keep him in line. Am I crazy or is this a job for the Umbers?