awesome possum Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 No, he's running in the Primary and needs the support of people who generally really hate Obama. Attacking Obama seems a relatively straightforward way of appealing to the base without having to take problematic policy positions too early that will cause problems in the general. Surely, that's relatively smart. I suppose, it's a nice little bit of razzmatazz aimed at not getting people to look beyond the crusty surface of what he's saying. But it just seems like the people he's aiming his hate at would either already be on his side or aren't leaving the side of whoever the Teanuts will be championing and hating on Obama isn't going to change that. I suppose he might turn a few heads, but it seems to me that hating on Obama isn't going to suddenly make people forget his last name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 No, but it can't hurt him and in a tight contest, anything that might attract a percentage point or two away from rivals to his right, or even prevent slippage of support to them, might be crucial, especially if he hasn't had to say much policy-wise that will repel centrists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 The second is that it's honestly not even clear that Clinton sexually harassed Lewinsky. Consent would be a legitimate affirmative defense to such an allegation. If she was a willing participant, which, by all accounts, she was... well, there you go.I agree, the relationship was definitely sleazy, but she was 22/23 years old when it happened. Comparing it to a teacher/student relationship (or even a professor/student relationship in college) is inaccurate and inflammatory. To circle back, this all started with the allegation that Hilary Clinton would be weighed down by the philandering of her husband. Considering that the Lewinsky affair occurred nearly 20 years ago, and has been public knowledge for that entire time, it is really difficult to see why that would have any particular impact, even assuming that someone is willing to make the Hilary-to-Bill connection of malfeasance. I suppose that Bill's post-white house affairs (I assume there are some) could provide some drama for the campaign. But in those cases there is even less to go on, since there isn't even the perjury aspect to it. A good campaign team could even spin it to a positive for Hilary for "standing by her man". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Lol, you don't think the relationship between a starry eyed intern and the President can be compared to the relationship a starry eyed coed has with a handsome/brilliant/sexy professor? You know nothing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Jeb Bush: "I am my own man"... 'that's why I'm hiring a bunch of guys who used to work for my dad and brother and who totally didn't help lie us into a horrific war that has permanently damaged the United States and world.' And Bush seems to have this fatal flaw that Republicans are going to have a hard time getting over: they're not running against Obama. Half of his speech seems designed to attack Obama, he's not running for president anymore dipshit. Did you not get the memo? Gosh, Baker and Shultz are still alive? In some way their presence is comforting, as they at least didn't push a McJesus-derived foreign policy, and seemed in the past to regard the Cheney War Criminal cabal as at least gauche. But yeah, otherwise, looks like Jeb is getting the family band back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Lol, you don't think the relationship between a starry eyed intern and the President can be compared to the relationship a starry eyed coed has with a handsome/brilliant/sexy professor? You know nothing.... The ages make a huge difference. An 18/19 year old who is attracted to a professor is a lot worse than a 22/23 year old woman doing the same. So if you want to say it is like "grad student/professor" then fine. But while relationships between grad students and their "mentor" are always frowned upon, and usually prohibited, they are rarely called sexual harassment when consensual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Again, in a university situation, you are dealing with a conflict of interest - expecting a teacher or lecturer to mark their lover's work is obviously dodgy. But a President and an adult intern in a consensual situation? That has little effect on the job of either. I disagree because to me an intern is the same thing as a student and the people he or she is working for are the same as professors. It is not a pure employer-employee relationship. In most internships I know about, there is evaluation of the intern's performance by their superiors in the workplace that affects their success in a credit-bearing course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 No, but it can't hurt him and in a tight contest, anything that might attract a percentage point or two away from rivals to his right, or even prevent slippage of support to them, might be crucial, especially if he hasn't had to say much policy-wise that will repel centrists. That's true. And it looks like attacking Obama is really the major trick Jeb has, considering this little gem: ForAmerica, which describes itself as "an online army" of conservatives led by longtime activist Brent Bozell, released a one minute video to its network Thursday morning that shows Bush praising former Secretary of State and potential presidential challenger Hillary Clinton. The archived footage in the video dated September 10, 2013 is of Bush presenting Clinton an award for a lifetime of public service. At the awards ceremony, Bush thanked Clinton for her service, saying "we are united by a love of country and public service." The video then cuts to a black screen with red and white text saying the award was given to Clinton on the eve of the first anniversary of the Benghazi attacks. Conservatives blame Clinton for lack of security at the American compound where four Americans were killed. Oof, not only will this get played over and over and over again (by Hillary's campaign) but it also serves to help tie Jeb to BENGHAZI!!!!!! for the rightwing challengers. I can imagine the uproar from Huckabee now, "Just a year after 4 of our bravest Americans were murdered in cold blood thanks to Hillary Clinton's recklessness and carelessness, Jeb Bush gave her an award for her service! Jeb Bush gave an award to BENGHAZI!!!! BENGHAZI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Gosh, Baker and Shultz are still alive? In some way their presence is comforting, as they at least didn't push a McJesus-derived foreign policy, and seemed in the past to regard the Cheney War Criminal cabal as at least gauche. But yeah, otherwise, looks like Jeb is getting the family band back together. Only to an extent. His VP pick, Rick Chanee, is absolutely not Dick Cheney in a Groucho Marx mustache. Absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 The ages make a huge difference. An 18/19 year old who is attracted to a professor is a lot worse than a 22/23 year old woman doing the same. So if you want to say it is like "grad student/professor" then fine. But while relationships between grad students and their "mentor" are always frowned upon, and usually prohibited, they are rarely called sexual harassment when consensual. "Sexual harassment" is indeed a poor term for this. To me this is WORSE than what is usually called "sexual harassment" because actual sexual contact was involved. And there are many instances where these student-professor relationships are more than just "frowned upon" and even tenured professors have been fired because of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 media trying to kill the Walker campaign in its crib while praising Jeb tells you who they fear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 "Sexual harassment" is indeed a poor term for this. To me this is WORSE than what is usually called "sexual harassment" because actual sexual contact was involved. Sexual acts between consenting adults is WORSE than sexual harassment because of the professional relationship between the two? Wow. Can't agree on that one. And there are many instances where these student-professor relationships are more than just "frowned upon" and even tenured professors have been fired because of them.Oh, I'm well aware, those are the cases of "prohibited" that I mentioned. It is sleazy, unprofessional, and something I think professors should be fired for. However, there are also cases where professors were not fired, hence saying always frowned upon, and sometimes prohibited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Sexual acts between consenting adults is WORSE than sexual harassment because of the professional relationship between the two? Wow. Can't agree on that one. Oh, I'm well aware, those are the cases of "prohibited" that I mentioned. It is sleazy, unprofessional, and something I think professors should be fired for. However, there are also cases where professors were not fired, hence saying always frowned upon, and sometimes prohibited. I think the point is sexual harassment doesn't usually involve actual acts of sex. Unwanted touching, yes, but not a sexual act. (which, of course, Clinton claimed didn't happen, "I did not have sex with that woman") And the main issue is not "the professional relationship", it's the inequality of power and the idea that the person with the power has taken advantage of the person without the power. That's why professors are not supposed to sleep with students and Presidents are not supposed to engage in sexual activity with interns. Saying it was consensual turns a blind eye to the power dynamic. But, as Nestor pointed out, the acts would have been defended as being consensual. Again, that's why people in power are supposed to recognize the power they wield. I don't want to derail this thread with a topic that could be a thread of it's own. Feel free to respond but I won't say more. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summah Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Clinton was the POTUS at the time, I imagine it's very difficult to say no to the POTUS if one wants to. The power differential here is enormous and absolutely comprable to a teacher/student power differential. Saying no to the President could easily carry extremely negative consequences if that President were vengeful, noting all slights etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 media trying to kill the Walker campaign in its crib while praising Jeb tells you who they fear I would like to make a minced meat pie off of that dead baby carcass when it's done, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Clinton was the POTUS at the time, I imagine it's very difficult to say no to the POTUS if one wants to. The power differential here is enormous and absolutely comprable to a teacher/student power differential. Saying no to the President could easily carry extremely negative consequences if that President were vengeful, noting all slights etc. But by that logic, wouldn't that be true of anyone the President could possibly have an affair with? Obviously the President shouldn't be having affairs, but to me the reason isn't because of the disproportionate power he has over everyone who isn't Angela Merkel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 But by that logic, wouldn't that be true of anyone the President could possibly have an affair with? Obviously the President shouldn't be having affairs, but to me the reason isn't because of the disproportionate power he has over everyone who isn't Angela Merkel. Even Angela Merkel is not immune. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bush-back-rub-gets-big-play/ Looks like President Codpiece made her pretty uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 media trying to kill the Walker campaign in its crib while praising Jeb tells you who they fear I think Walker is doing a good enough job himself, he doesn't really need the media to do anything but report on the shitty, stupid things he's doing. Like punting when asked about evolution Or cutting higher education spending so that his state can afford to pitch in for a new basketball arena Or trying to change the University of Wisconsin's century-old mission statement to remove that pesky little thing called "truth" and then outright lying about it Or pushing drug testing for welfare recipients, despite no evidence that it helps anything but make the idiotic GOP base giggle These are all fairly recent stories. But I imagine in Commodore's precious brain, it's the media's fault for reporting on these things. Don't worry, Commie, I'm sure all that Koch money will buy him a nice big box of tissues to cry into when he loses horribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionAhaiReborn Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I can't wait for the updated version when the media is being so unfair to Jeb during Jeb vs. Hillary because Jeb represents the bold Amurican conservatism that coastal liberal elites despise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Sometimes I think the stench of the Bush years has not sufficiently dissipated to make a Jeb campaign plausible, and sometimes I think that Americans will totally forget that the last two Bush presidencies were less than satisfactory. I could go either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 The media isn't being unfair to Walker, anymore then they are being unfair to Christie, Paul, Huckabee, Cruz, Carson, Rubio, Perry, Jindal, or any of the other potential GOP candidates. Fact is, there's just too many of them, and most of them only have very slight differences from each other. Right now Jeb is the one farthest along in putting a campaign together and has raised by far the most money. Until some of the other candidates catch up to him, he is the favorite; simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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