How do we know that Daenerys is a Targaryen?

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Ser Maury of House Povich proved Aerys was the father using a combination of DNA skills he learned from a shadowbinder and a hairy man of Ib, but OP says, "Oh hell naw, yous a m*therf*cking lie!"

Is anything possible- YES.

What is this continual "conclusive evidence" reference. There is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that Aerys is the father of Dany, from reliable sources, enough that the reader can reasonably CONCLUDE that is true.

There is your conclusive evidence.

Someone should totally make a Funny or Die sketch about Ser Maury of House Povitch proving/disproving various Westerosi paternities. :-P

[UnmaskedLurker]

That theory might appear to raise interesting points on the surface but on closer inspection it is actually quite flimsy. Danelle's post on page 5 basically shuts down every single point and unsurpisingly the OP conveniently ignores that post.

As noted, I am not indicating that I was convinced by that other OP. I just thought that anyone interested in this thread might find that other thread interesting, as it discusses in detail an alternative theory explaining how Aerys might not be the father of Dany. I agree, however, that as of this point in time, all available evidence supports the theory that no one other than Aerys was likely in a position to be the biological father of Dany.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

As noted, I am not indicating that I was convinced by that other OP. I just thought that anyone interested in this thread might find that other thread interesting, as it discusses in detail an alternative theory explaining how Aerys might not be the father of Dany. I agree, however, that as of this point in time, all available evidence supports the theory that no one other than Aerys was likely in a position to be the biological father of Dany.

Well, him and Ser Willem.

Going strictly by logistics, if Dany is the daughter of Rhaella than the only two named adult male characters known to have had access to Rhaella around the time of possible conception (and aren't Jaime, who's out for multiple reasons) were Aerys and Ser Willem.

[The porn of the morning]

How do we really know she is rhealla's daughter? We know that she's been lied to about where she grew up and we know she looks just like Ashara dayne. Plus, it's grendel Martin dude. If ur gonna sit here and act like u know ANYTHING is set in stone, then that's jjat kinda ignorant. For all we know, the doom of valyria was caused by nuclear alien technology

[Nictarion]

How do we really know she is rhealla's daughter? We know that she's been lied to about where she grew up and we know she looks just like Ashara dayne. Plus, it's grendel Martin dude. If ur gonna sit here and act like u know ANYTHING is set in stone, then that's jjat kinda ignorant. For all we know, the doom of valyria was caused by nuclear alien technology

No we don't know that. And no she doesn't look like Ashara Dayne. The only thing they have in common is eye color. Ashara had dark hair, not the silver/blonde like Dany has.

[Aeron_Damphair]

How do we really know she is rhealla's daughter? We know that she's been lied to about where she grew up and we know she looks just like Ashara dayne. Plus, it's grendel Martin dude. If ur gonna sit here and act like u know ANYTHING is set in stone, then that's jjat kinda ignorant. For all we know, the doom of valyria was caused by nuclear alien technology

The point is that with that statement you can argue for virtually anything. Ned's alive. Benjen is Daario, Rhaegar is Mance Rayder, Khal Drogo is going to come back as a white walker, Lem Lemoncloak is TPTWP or any random thought that pops into your head. The theory is ridiculous. The argument that even ridiculous things are possible is inane.

[The porn of the morning]

So ur saying that the house with the red door was in bravoos? We know that don't make much sense based on the lemon tree. Baristan also says she looks like Ashara. He knew her, u didn't. We know there is a lotta strange and fishy circumstances about her childhood. And I'm sure it'll be explored in more detail in the next books. But the series ain't over yet. Therefore nothing at all is set in stone. And the daynes r gonna play a big part in the endgame I think. But I THINK, I do KNOW.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I've said for ages that if people question Aegon they must question Daenerys. Both have been brought up to believe they are the person others have said they are.

How is Dany "brougth up to believe" she's Daenerys Targaryen? I mean, what makes you think she has been lied? What are the hints? clues? purpose? That's not how it works.

Jon Snow's identity is questioned because we're straightly told the identity of his mother is a mystery. She was either some peasant, a whore or a noble lady. If the mother is a noble lady, then why the need to hide it? Who was she? And, consequentially, who is Jon? The Stark kids are both Starks and Tullys. So, what's Jon's other half?

Aegon's identity is questioned because we're also introduced to him as Young Griff, a kid with a secret identity. And when we discover the real one, the explanation is weak: he was switched with some baby in a very impossible unlikely scenario. Either this is a lie or the switch happened in a different set of conditions and Aegon has been also lied.

Yet, when we meet Dany, many affirmations are said about who she is: she was born nine months after her parents last saw each other, she's the last female Targaryen and has the right blood, she hatched dragons, etc, etc. Her identity is never put to be doubt. There are some strange memories of her which probably indicated that MAYBE (maybe maybe maybe) she could have been living in a different place as the one she remembers, BUT, saying she's not actually Dany is a stretch.

With Daenerys, there is that key message from Quaithe. Remember who you are, Daenerys..... The dragons know. Do you? That is very pointed, and very intentional.

Yes. Dany is having an identity crisis. Not because she doesn't know who she really is, but because she has lost the essence of who she REALLY is, meaning, a Dragon. She's wearing bunny ears to placate and bend to others' will. Few chapters before she said "I'm a dragon" and now she's dancing to the slavers' tune. Who she is, then? She comes from the blood of Aegon the Conqueror, Jaehaerys the Wise, Daeron the Good, etc. She has forgotten that she has the power.

Aren't we due for a Star Wars moment? The thing is, given GRRM's track record, it'll be more. Bigger, better, crazier.... Triplets instead of twins, maybe? Quadruplets? Quintruplets? Darth-mulitiple-mothers with singular Darth Dad? Give up! It does your head in!!

What if this 'moment' is a veiled hint? Star Wars.... er.... moments (historic and projected).

The SW quote came from Alfie Allen. We couldn't know what he really meant when he said that. A guy having twins isn't the only thing that happened there.

[Nictarion]

So ur saying that the house with the red door was in bravoos? We know that don't make much sense based on the lemon tree. Baristan also says she looks like Ashara. He knew her, u didn't. We know there is a lotta strange and fishy circumstances about her childhood. And I'm sure it'll be explored in more detail in the next books. But the series ain't over yet. Therefore nothing at all is set in stone. And the daynes r gonna play a big part in the endgame I think. But I THINK, I do KNOW.

Yes the lemon tree was almost certainly in Braavos, it's been discussed ad nauseam on this forum and I have no interest in getting into it.

IIRC Barristan is reminded of Ashara by Dany just because they have the same eyes.

[The_Watcher_On_The_Walls]

Well, I mean, Dany kind of looks exactly like one, she hung out with her brother who is one. Plus if she's not a real targ, why bother having targs in the story at all.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

There is a FREAKING VELOCIRAPTOR in Braavos. If there can be a FREAKING VELOCIRAPTOR in Braavos, then we can have a lemon tree.

[tseka]

Her platinum hair and violet eyes...

Only Targaryans have them since the rest of the Valyrians are ded.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Yes the lemon tree was almost certainly in Braavos, it's been discussed ad nauseam on this forum and I have no interest in getting into it.

Nnnnoooo....lemon tree was almost certainly in *Dorne*.

Evidence for Braavosi lemon tree:

- hazy early-childhood memory of Dany

Evidence she is mistaken at it was really in Dorne:

- Multiple references throughout the books to Braavos not having trees let alone lemon trees,

- Multiple references to Dorne having lemons and other citrus fruits

- Characters rolling their eyes at other characters who think lemon trees grow in places besides Dorne, with Braavos being particularly ridiculous.

The significance of this has yet to be seen, but other than plugging your ears and singing "lalalalalala I can't hear you" there's no denying the arguments for the lemon tree being in Dorne.

Sure, it's possible it was actually Braavos. But there is a LOT of evidence to the contrary and only Dany's early-childhood memory supporting it.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Nnnnoooo....lemon tree was almost certainly in *Dorne*.

Evidence for Braavosi lemon tree:

- hazy early-childhood memory of Dany

Evidence she is mistaken at it was really in Dorne:

- Multiple references throughout the books to Braavos not having trees let alone lemon trees,

- Multiple references to Dorne having lemons and other citrus fruits

- Characters rolling their eyes at other characters who think lemon trees grow in places besides Dorne, with Braavos being particularly ridiculous.

The significance of this has yet to be seen, but other than plugging your ears and singing "lalalalalala I can't hear you" there's no denying the arguments for the lemon tree being in Dorne.

Sure, it's possible it was actually Braavos. But there is a LOT of evidence to the contrary and only Dany's early-childhood memory supporting it.

But... ok.

Dany, who we'll call, for now, Person Khaleesi, has memories of living with Viserys all her life. And, Viserys was also eight years old when they ran away together wit Darry. Wouldn't he remember that they were first in Dorne and then taken to the Free Cities? Or wouldn't he have realised that suddenly, his sister has changed and she doesn't look like her anymore when he was somehow replaced by Person Khaleesi as many said?

I mean, can we apply a bit of Occam here? What's more likely, that Dany is not Dany or she was somehow sent to Dorne with no real purpose or that the place they lived was the house of the Sealord, a man so rich he had giraffes, dinosaurs and zebras, could likely have also a lemon tree? :dunno:

I mean, ok. Dany was in Dorne. Why?

[Lord Lyman]

I mean, ok. Dany was in Dorne. Why?

My thought to all of this was, If she was ever in Dorne, then how did she and Viserys ever get to Essos, they have to cross the Narrow Sea and that requires money which they lacked. Even If, some wealthy person helped her, you would think that crossing the Sea would be a big event for a child so young, yet she gives us no memories of it. Also hasn't she mentioned before that she's never been to Westeros before?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

My thought to all of this was, If she was ever in Dorne, then how did she and Viserys ever get to Essos, they have to cross the Narrow Sea and that requires money which they lacked. Even If, some wealthy person helped her, you would think that crossing the Sea would be a big event for a child so young, yet she gives us no memories of it. Also hasn't she mentioned before that she's never been to Westeros before?

Darry died when the kids were five and thirteen. They both would remember it. Yet, Viserys never mentions it.

And why in the name of God they would go to Essos when it's more safe to try and reach for Starfall or the Martells? Or, why didn't Darry found someone to protect them while he was dying? After all, he signed the marriage contract with the Martells.

Dany and Viserys were never separated. And Viserys has never been in Westeros after they escaped from it. That's pretty much the point of their lives in Essos: they were strangers with no one to help them.

[Mychel_Redfort]

Nnnnoooo....lemon tree was almost certainly in *Dorne*.

But Dany remembers when Darry died and his servants drove her and Viserys from the house with the red door and the lemon tree. If she had been in Dorne, surely she would remember taking a ship to Essos then, no ? And before that, why would the Sealord of Braavos have been with Oberyn in Dorne to visit Darry and sign the pact ?

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

But... ok.

Dany, who we'll call, for now, Person Khaleesi, has memories of living with Viserys all her life. And, Viserys was also eight years old when they ran away together wit Darry. Wouldn't he remember that they were first in Dorne and then taken to the Free Cities? Or wouldn't he have realised that suddenly, his sister has changed and she doesn't look like her anymore when he was somehow replaced by Person Khaleesi as many said?

I mean, can we apply a bit of Occam here? What's more likely, that Dany is not Dany or she was somehow sent to Dorne with no real purpose or that the place they lived was the house of the Sealord, a man so rich he had giraffes, dinosaurs and zebras, could likely have also a lemon tree? :dunno:

I mean, ok. Dany was in Dorne. Why?

To be honest I don't know what it means. I just know the overwhelming evidence points to Dany's recollections of the house with the lemon tree actually are of Dorne, not Braavos. Her memories of the smells and warmth also correspond to a climate like Dorne's much better than Braavos.

The easiest supposition is that Dany spent her childhood in two places--first in Dorne, which makes sense because Ser Willem would be more likely to first turn to the Daynes for help than to cross the narrow sea, where we have no reason to believe that a master armorer would have any connections. Then the Daynes and Martels eventually decide it's too dangerous to keep Targs so close and arrange for them to be taken in by the Sealord of Braavos. So Dany remembers two places--a house with a red door, in Braavos, and a house with a lemon tree, in Dorne, and has conflated the memories.

Again, not sure what that would mean, other than showing that Dany has a closer connection to Dorne than she realizes and perhaps that would sway Dorne to support her over Aegon. But that seems like a long walk for little payoff, so I'm just throwing it out as a possibility, not really arguing for it.

As for the person we know as Dany actually being someone else swapped for the real Dany...that's a farther stretch, and I don't argue for it very seriously. It can work logistically, but the narrative payoff is very unclear. However if there were a swap and it occured when Dany/Person Khaleesi was a baby, it seems unlikely that Viserys the Unobservant would even notice. Arguing that she was swapped as a toddler is a lot tougher; I never do that at all.

[kimim]

So ur saying that the house with the red door was in bravoos? We know that don't make much sense based on the lemon tree. Baristan also says she looks like Ashara. He knew her, u didn't. We know there is a lotta strange and fishy circumstances about her childhood. And I'm sure it'll be explored in more detail in the next books. But the series ain't over yet. Therefore nothing at all is set in stone. And the daynes r gonna play a big part in the endgame I think. But I THINK, I do KNOW.

People tend to see the woman they loved in Dany. Jorah says that his wife looked like Dany. Does that make her a secret Hightower?

Also, why shouldn't there be a lemon tree in Braavos? Dany is staying at the house of a very wealthy man. Wealthy men of Braavos have trees in their gardens. If the Starks can use glass houses to grow vegetables in winter, a wealthy man could cultivate a single lemon tree in his garden.

[Mychel_Redfort]

The easiest supposition is that Dany spent her childhood in two places--first in Dorne, which makes sense because Ser Willem would be more likely to first turn to the Daynes for help than to cross the narrow sea, where we have no reason to believe that a master armorer would have any connections. Then the Daynes and Martels eventually decide it's too dangerous to keep Targs so close and arrange for them to be taken in by the Sealord of Braavos. So Dany remembers two places--a house with a red door, in Braavos, and a house with a lemon tree, in Dorne, and has conflated the memories.

But Viserys, eight years older than Dany, would remember all that, so why would he lie to Dany ??