How do we know that Daenerys is a Targaryen?

[Aeron_Damphair]

Actually, Dany is not her father's son.

Hasty, but now that you mention it, maybe it's "Danny" and not "Dany." Her status as a female could have been confirmed by Viserys, but he failed to rape her before her wedding night. Also, we have a story about how she conveniently miscarried right before she would have given birth. Really good circumstantial evidence that narrative accounts of her femaleness were unreliable. Maybe she(he) is trans.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Hasty, but now that you mention it, maybe it's "Danny" and not "Dany." Her status as a female could have been confirmed by Viserys, but he failed to rape her before her wedding night. Also, we have a story about how she conveniently miscarried right before she would have given birth. Really good circumstantial evidence that narrative accounts of her femaleness were unreliable. Maybe she(he) is trans.

Actually, Danny is her evil twin. Or maybe, the good one.

[Aeron_Damphair]

She could have been castrated by some wizard like Varys was before she reached the age of self-awareness. Aerion threatens to castrate Egg in THK so he can make him a woman and take him as a wife. I think we can agree Viserys is a lot like Aerion and he talks of taking Dany to wife, a clear parallel. This theory has legs.

[khal drogon]

Are you going to tell Dany she is not a Targaryen?

The fact that Rhaella is her mom still makes her Targaryen.

[kimim]

She could have been castrated by some wizard like Varys was before she reached the age of self-awareness. Aerion threatens to castrate Egg in THK so he can make him a woman and take him as a wife. I think we can agree Viserys is a lot like Aerion and he talks of taking Dany to wife, a clear parallel. This theory has legs.

...VIsERys and AeERIon, even the names are similar! Yes, this theory has legs.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Two points,

First to the OP: you keep saying that posters have provided no conclusive evidence that Dany is Aerys daughter (only supporting evidence). For the sake of argument, what would you consider "conclusive evidence" of paternity?

Second, I think the idea that Dany is not Aerys' it is an interesting premise and not deserving of mockery. If you think (as I do) that jon and Tyrion are both half Targaryen, then there is IMO a potential narrative purpose to Daenerys being half Targaryen as well. The last Three remaining "half targaryens" become dragon riders. And hey, if jon and Tyrion have a mystery parent, Dany can join the club.

I assume if Dany is not Aerys' that she is bonifer hasty's daughter. Does anyone know if hasty could conceivably have produced a Targ-looking child? Not sure we know what he looked like...?

[Aderyn]

Did I ever mention that there is any evidence?

Read back the OP. I am asking a question: is there any evidence that Daenerys is truly Aerys daughter? Yes/No

The problem here is with how you lay down your question. It reminds me of an ahteist-believer debate:

Atheist: "Is there any evidence that God exists? No? There, gotcha..."

Believer: "Well... is there any evidence that God does not exist? No? There, gotcha..."

[UtherSnow]

I've said for ages that if people question Aegon they must question Daenerys. Both have been brought up to believe they are the person others have said they are.

With Daenerys, there is that key message from Quaithe. Remember who you are, Daenerys..... The dragons know. Do you? That is very pointed, and very intentional.

Aren't we due for a Star Wars moment? The thing is, given GRRM's track record, it'll be more. Bigger, better, crazier.... Triplets instead of twins, maybe? Quadruplets? Quintruplets? Darth-mulitiple-mothers with singular Darth Dad? Give up! It does your head in!!

What if this 'moment' is a veiled hint? Star Wars.... er.... moments (historic and projected).

Ignore.....

May (mid to late) = release dates of

Star Wars movies. When do we get to see the next one? December.... mid... this year. If GRRM is feeling animated (groan).... August (mid).

What if GRRM is battling with conscience? Battle...? crank! creek! clank! Anniversary.....? February (mid) to March (early) to April (late).... Year ending in '6'.....

Too much thinking involved! Doing my head in.... again!! Attempt to get to book release date.... Futile!

Did curiosity get the better of you?

[kimim]

Two points,

First to the OP: you keep saying that posters have provided no conclusive evidence that Dany is Aerys daughter (only supporting evidence). For the sake of argument, what would you consider "conclusive evidence" of paternity?

Second, I think the idea that Dany is not Aerys' it is an interesting premise and not deserving of mockery. If you think (as I do) that jon and Tyrion are both half Targaryen, then there is IMO a potential narrative purpose to Daenerys being half Targaryen as well. The last Three remaining "half targaryens" become dragon riders. And hey, if jon and Tyrion have a mystery parent, Dany can join the club.

I assume if Dany is not Aerys' that she is bonifer hasty's daughter. Does anyone know if hasty could conceivably have produced a Targ-looking child? Not sure we know what he looked like...?

If this is the case, it's throwing out really excellent Lannister family drama, which is almost bordering on tragedy when you come to Tywin and Tyrion. It would be a sad waste. Same with Dany: Imagine Dany meeting a Stark, or meeting Jaime. Which has more dramatic potential: Dany as mad king's daughter, or Dany as Bonifer's daughter?

[khal drogon]

134 R+L=J threads disagree.

I still think its a theory hence it can't be concluded as fact.

[Oafkeeper]

It says so in the appendix.

[The Dragons Hand]

I mean, what proof do we have that she truly is the daughter of Aerys?

She was born like 9 months later her mother fled from KL, right? That's suspicious.

Maybe the fake Dragon is Daenerys herself.

So, what do you people think of it? What proof stand for her being a Targaryen? What evidence is lacking?

ETA: yeah, her mother is a Targaryen. What I am truly asking is how do we know she is the daughter of Aerys.

Yeah, the exact time of a regular birthing cycle is spooky as fuck.

I wonder if people just do this for fun now?

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Don't feel bad, OP. People get their noses seriously out of joint around here if you start questioning Dany. Even though there's plenty of textual hints that her past might not be quite what she thinks it is.

Basically here are some possible scenarios, in order of likelihood IMO:

- Dany is the daughter of Aerys and Rhaella, as everyone thinks. The mystery surrounding her birth and early childhood concerns other things besides the identity of her parents.

- Dany is the daughter of Rhaegar -- or, rather, Danaerys Stormborn died in infancy (as per the usual pattern of most of A&R's kids) and the daughter of R & L, twin of Jon, was subbed in and became known as Danaerys. This requires Ser Willem to have taken the Targ kids to Starfall before Braavos, but I don't think that's hugely unlikely.

- Dany is the daughter of Rhaella and Ser Willem, conceived right after they fled the sack of KL rather than right before.

- Dany is the daughter of Ashara Dayne and some Targ, such as Aerys the Rapey. This would follow the same baby-switching pattern as the "daughter of Rhaegar" theory since we do know that a baby named Danaerys was born to Rhaella on Dragonstone during the siege. (Well, "know" as much as anything in ASoIaF can be known--multiple unrelated parties tell us this, and it seems very hard to fake.)

Note--these are all things not contradicted by the text. Ser Bonnifer Hasty as Dany's father is contradicted as everything indicates they were far apart from each other the year before Dany's birth, and there is no indication they had any contact after Rhaella was married.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Are we 100% sure that the whole story is taking place as a teenager playing an RPG on his PC and at the end we'll scene jump to 21st century US a la The Princess Bride? An equally good question to the OP's question.

Yes that is an equally viable and intelligent question as this OP.

Another equally intelligent question would be; Do you all think that Drogon is actually the Smoke Monster from LOST?

[yomi]

Oh I agree that there's good reason to assume Dany is who she's supposed to be. I believe she's Aerys's daughter, and her story involves her accepting who her daddy is. That would involve her eventually realizing that there was reason to remove, even kill Aerys. However, there's no objective, scientific proof, not for her father, not for anyone's father, not on Westeros, anyway. Like...could Robb's dad really be a random dude at Riverrun? Cat had to wait almost a year for Ned to return from the wars, so there was plenty of time for her to take a ginger lover. Extraordinary unlikely, but can you disprove it?

No, that's why I started my post by saying that there is no absolute proof and quoting you. Shall I quote you again? There you go:

You're begging the question. There's no DNA testing on Westeros, which means that there is no way to prove paternity, for anyone. So, no, by definition there can be no proof that Dany is Aerys's daughter, any more than proof that Robb is Ned's son, Joffrey's Jaime's son, etc.

[UnmaskedLurker]

An entire OP was written putting forth the theory that Bonifer Hasty is the biological father of Dany. The OP can be found HERE. I am not claiming that I am persuaded by the OP, but it raises interesting points.

[Consigliere]

That theory might appear to raise interesting points on the surface but on closer inspection it is actually quite flimsy. Danelle's post on page 5 basically shuts down every single point and unsurpisingly the OP conveniently ignores that post.

[Wolf of the Steppes]

Ser Maury of House Povich proved Aerys was the father using a combination of DNA skills he learned from a shadowbinder and a hairy man of Ib, but OP says, "Oh hell naw, yous a m*therf*cking lie!"

Is anything possible- YES.

What is this continual "conclusive evidence" reference. There is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that Aerys is the father of Dany, from reliable sources, enough that the reader can reasonably CONCLUDE that is true.

There is your conclusive evidence.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

An entire OP was written putting forth the theory that Bonifer Hasty is the biological father of Dany. The OP can be found HERE. I am not claiming that I am persuaded by the OP, but it raises interesting points.

Yeah, I've read that before. It's interesting, but it doesn't work.

- It goes against everything we know about the personalities of Rhaella (mainly referred to as "dutiful") and Ser Bonnifer (the guy Jaime meets is not a guy to sneak around and knock up a queen; he really does seem only devoted to his celibate warrior routine). My Rhaella + Ser Willem theory involves them getting together after Aerys died, and more for producing a backup heir for Viserys than for pleasure.

- How did Ser Bonnifer get onto Rhaella's ship? Why is there absolutely no hint of this whatsoever, and no reason for him to be there? ("He liked this girl over a decade ago, and they swore each other off and went their separate ways but NOW he really wants to be with her and she reciprocates" isn't a reason. If they had been around each other that whole time, allowing feelings to simmer, maybe; but that's not the case at all.)

- How do you hide the fact that you burned a whole fleet?

- How do you burn a fleet during an epic storm?

- If there was no epic storm, how do you get multiple people including Ned Stark to remember an epic storm that didn't happen?

If Ser Bonnifer is anyone's dad he's Rhaegar's. It wouldn't be totally crazy for young Rhaella to decide to have one indiscretion right before her wedding; this could also explain her and Ser Bonnifer parting ways so completely. If he was the same person then that he is now, he might well have been disgusted at himself and her after the indiscretion and that's why he swore himself to the Maid instead of moving on and marrying someone else.

But there's not much narrative merit to that idea.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Ser Maury of House Povich proved Aerys was the father using a combination of DNA skills he learned from a shadowbinder and a hairy man of Ib, but OP says, "Oh hell naw, yous a m*therf*cking lie!"

Is anything possible- YES.

What is this continual "conclusive evidence" reference. There is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that Aerys is the father of Dany, from reliable sources, enough that the reader can reasonably CONCLUDE that is true.

There is your conclusive evidence.

^^^ LOL

Yes I also remember that passage from SOS where they did a DNA test on Aerys' bones and determined conclusively that Rhaegar, Viserys and Dany were all his children by Rhaella. They sent a raven to the Citadel and it was taken down by the Maesters in one of their history books as absolute indisputable fact. It was in a Tyrion chapter IIRC.

/thread