How do we know that Daenerys is a Targaryen?

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

I don't know, maybe it's much dumber posting into a thread without making an effort to reading all other posts and trying to understand what the OP (me!) is trying to say.

As it happens, I did not refute Aerys as best-fit father of Daenerys, I only observed that it occurred to me it is not as a certain parentage as I thought it was. And I asked to other readers

whether they knew of some evidence I did not know about.

I did not push forward a crackpot theory like 'X!=Aerys is the true father of Daenerys'.

And even if I did [but I did not], this board has seen much more unstained crackpot theories than the one in the latter sentence.

I'll have to wonder why I in particular am being bashed so much for such an innocent - and reasonable - question. Maybe my post counter isn't high enough.

You know, this thread would make so much more sense if you did want to imply that she wasn't her father's daughter. But without that, your singling Dany out specifically is just weird.

"Are we sure your aunt doesn't eat spiders?"

"Wait what? Dunno anything about my aunt eating spiders. Why would you say that?"

"Shit, man, I'm just wondering aloud, OK? I never said she does. Geez!"

"So, you brought up spider-eating habits of, specifically, my aunt, for what reason exactly?"

"No reason. Just askin'. What, that a crime now?"

See? Weird!

[kimim]

...

I have no burden of proof since I have no theory at all. I had a question, full stop.

You're begging the question. There's no DNA testing on Westeros, which means that there is no way to prove paternity, for anyone. So, no, by definition there can be no proof that Dany is Aerys's daughter, any more than proof that Robb is Ned's son, Joffrey's Jaime's son, etc.

EDIT: I had a history prof who claimed that this is one reason why pre-marital virginity and faithfulness became such a fetish in traditional societies. The identity of the baby's mother was clear. The identity of the father depended on the mother's word that her husband was, really, the father.

[Ser Not Appearing]

A whole lot of brick wall minds in this thread. Which man is less intelligent, the man who thinks he's a brick wall or the man who recognizes this and keeps talking anyway? You've been clear, OP. Leave it at that.

No, there's not certainty of Aerys being the father and, yes, the timetable of presence and absence presents more opportunity and uncertainty than parentage questions for most other characters.

The question of Dany's father is begged by the timetable and further begged by her memories. Being a question doesn't imply a negative answer, it implies uncertainty. Uncertainty exists and should be at least acknowledged by readers. Some will question harder than others but the story itself begs the question very early on.

[WeaselPie]

I don't see how Jon "Never forget who you are" Snow is allowed to have dubious parentage, but Dany "Remember who you are" Targaryen cannot.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I don't see how Jon "Never forget who you are" Snow is allowed to have dubious parentage, but Dany "Remember who you are" Targaryen cannot.

Because Jon's origins are one of the big mysteries of the book. It's literally mentioned in the first chapters of aGoT. We're MEANT to wonder who his mother was, and while doing it, we also end up discovering his father might not be Ned as we're told.

There is no mystery surrounding Dany's origins: we're been told since the beginning who her parents are and who is she. Dany's storyline is not about "where she came from" but "where she's going to".

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Because Jon's origins are one of the big mysteries of the book. It's literally mentioned in the first chapters of aGoT. We're MEANT to wonder who his mother was, and while doing it, we also end up discovering his father might not be Ned as we're told.

There is no mystery surrounding Dany's origins: we're been told since the beginning who her parents are and who is she. Dany's storyline is not about "where she came from" but "where she's going to".

Exactly.

Some things are not a mystery and are not meant to be. If they were meant to be a mystery then there would be mysterious circumstances and evidence in the books, and there is none.

There are plenty of REAL things to speculate on and discuss from these 1000 page novels. But this is not one of them.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

I don't see how Jon "Never forget who you are" Snow is allowed to have dubious parentage, but Dany "Remember who you are" Targaryen cannot.

Didn't you get the memo? The OP is, allegedly, not questioning Dany's parentage. Which is why this thread weirds everybody out.

[El Guapo]

Are you going to tell Dany she is not a Targaryen?

[Ser Not Appearing]

How early on in the series is it mentioned that Dany was born nine months after? How early in our introduction to the character? Anyone?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Are you going to tell Dany she is not a Targaryen?

Tell that to the dragons she hatched in (clearly and specifically) Targaryen fashion, With the fire and the sacrifice and the result is three live dragons and an unburnt woman. (BTW, they are the only people in the world who do that sort of thing).

[foreign675]

A whole lot of brick wall minds in this thread. Which man is less intelligent, the man who thinks he's a brick wall or the man who recognizes this and keeps talking anyway? You've been clear, OP. Leave it at that.

No, there's not certainty of Aerys being the father and, yes, the timetable of presence and absence presents more opportunity and uncertainty than parentage questions for most other characters.

The question of Dany's father is begged by the timetable and further begged by her memories. Being a question doesn't imply a negative answer, it implies uncertainty. Uncertainty exists and should be at least acknowledged by readers. Some will question harder than others but the story itself begs the question very early on.

I was going to give an n-th reply, but you made me change my mind.

Being misunderstood is quite annoying, but I understand that insisting doesn't help.

Thanks, and cheers.

[kimim]

How early on in the series is it mentioned that Dany was born nine months after? How early in our introduction to the character? Anyone?

It's never mentioned that she was born "nine months after," a conception (I think). It's also never mentioned for anyone else that I can think of.

She was born on Dragonstone, during a storm, to Rhaella, hence her title, "Stormborn." Sure other theories are possible--Rhaella's baby died at birth, and there was a replacement, or R+L=D. Why, though? What purpose would it serve in the novels?

[yomi]

Do we have absolute proof that Aerys is Dany's father?

Well, no:

You're begging the question. There's no DNA testing on Westeros, which means that there is no way to prove paternity, for anyone. So, no, by definition there can be no proof that Dany is Aerys's daughter, any more than proof that Robb is Ned's son, Joffrey's Jaime's son, etc.

Do we have evidence suggesting that Aerys is Dany's father?

I think so, yes.

We have Jaime's memory of Aerys brutally raping Rhaella shortly before sending her to Dragonstone and about nine months before Dany's birth. So there is certainly the possibility of Aerys having fathered Dany.

Is it possible that she had sex with anyone else about nine months before Dany's birth? We hear that Aerys tried to make sure she didn't. I don't think that changed when she was send to Dragonstone, I expect there were still guards ordered to make sure that she didn't. Of course these guard might disobey. Jaime seems to symphatize much more with Rhaella than with Aerys. Others might do so, too, and decide to disobey Aerys' orders and give poor Rhaella any freedom she wants.

But is it likely that Rhaella wants to have sex with anyone shortly after that rape? I don't think so. Even soft and loving sex might bring up the memory of the rape, and even soft and loving sex might hurt her injured body. And before the rape? I fear it wasn't the first rape, if I remember the book correctly, so I guess what I said previously still applies.

So, lets give her some time... she's on Dragonstone, her body heals, and with Aerys nowhere close and maybe even dead, her soal heals, too. She didn't cling to her crush on Bonister Hasty, but feels free to find a new lover and she does and she gets pregnant. The stress of Stannis possible arrival and the danger for her and her child(ren) plus the extremly heavy storm cause her to have a difficult early birth and she dies because of it. So far that sounds relatively plausible, but early born babies tend to be weak at first. So we have a weak newborn who lacks the advantage of being fed mother's milk and said newborn is then taken on a ship voyage to Braavos and survives that. That's not so plausible anymore.

So, yeah, there is the possibility that someone besides Aerys could be Dany's father, but it's very unlikely, whereas Aerys being Dany's father is easyly possible without having to come up with any unlikely occurences.

[Ser Not Appearing]

It's never mentioned that she was born "nine months after," a conception (I think).

Full disclosure: I once started a thread similar to this, during a re-read. It was either last year or the year before.

I was responding to a post above that tried to distinguish Jon by noting how early we learn about his parentage mystery. I know that (for Dany) it's mentioned very early (maybe her first chapter) that she was born nine months after her mother fled. I don't remember too specifically (thus the question I posed), but the intrigue is right there for us at the outset of her character introduction.

Differences between the parentage mystery of Jon and Dany are other than how early on we're presented the question (emphasis in the story being chief). That's what I was trying to get at. Sorry for any confusion.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

FTR, It is mentioned in aGoT:

"Ella había nacido en Rocadragón nueve meses después de la huida, durante una tormenta de verano que amenazaba con quebrantar la solidez de la propia isla".

Sorry, I don't have my english version at hand, but "nueve meses" is nine months. At least in my copy :dunno:

[Luthien Targaryen]

Surely the important thing is, she has the dragons therefore she should be considered a Targaryen. The dragons are probably more important than her DNA. She hatched those dragons where nobody has been able to for a couple of hundred years. It doesn't matter who her parents were/are, Dany is a Targaryen.

Also, Jon has a Direwolf, so he's gotta be a Stark.

[Aeron_Damphair]

OP thinks he's misunderstood. He isn't. He just asks an inane and ridiculous question. He also doesn't realize how inane and ridiculous his question is.

You might just as well ask any question of anyone at any time, for no reason.

There is no reason to suspect that Dany is not her father's daughter. To even suggest that there is some doubt is ridiculous. To draw attention that we don't know with 100% certainty is inane. /thread

[kimim]

...

Differences between the parentage mystery of Jon and Dany are other than how early on we're presented the question (emphasis in the story being chief). That's what I was trying to get at. Sorry for any confusion.

Sorry for my misunderstanding :) I still think there's a difference, though. Jon's bastardy, his unlikely father (honorable Ned sired a bastard?) and his mystery mother are a part of the plot from the very beginning. If Dany, too, is a bastard, it would mirror Jon's story, I guess, but beyond that, I don't see a purpose. It's important for Dany to come to terms with her heritage. Taking away mad Aerys as dad would not serve her story well...imo. It's like Tyrion as a secret Targ. Taking away Tywin as his dad would wreck his story, too.

...

So, yeah, there is the possibility that someone besides Aerys could be Dany's father, but it's very unlikely, whereas Aerys being Dany's father is easyly possible without having to come up with any unlikely occurences.

Oh I agree that there's good reason to assume Dany is who she's supposed to be. I believe she's Aerys's daughter, and her story involves her accepting who her daddy is. That would involve her eventually realizing that there was reason to remove, even kill Aerys. However, there's no objective, scientific proof, not for her father, not for anyone's father, not on Westeros, anyway. Like...could Robb's dad really be a random dude at Riverrun? Cat had to wait almost a year for Ned to return from the wars, so there was plenty of time for her to take a ginger lover. Extraordinary unlikely, but can you disprove it?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

There is no reason to suspect that Dany is not her father's son.

Actually, Dany is not her father's son.

[Aeron_Damphair]

Are we 100% sure that the whole story is taking place as a teenager playing an RPG on his PC and at the end we'll scene jump to 21st century US a la The Princess Bride? An equally good question to the OP's question.