Coldhand's Scarf Covers The...

[Blazfemur]

I think that the "contract" stated (even if unintentional) that he was meant to serve the Starks. Like, if somehow, that ritual, whatever the real intention was, got him "bonded" to them and he can't escape it. Hence, "your monster".

interesting, a binding of a sort, to the Stark name. it's a new concept to me, i always attributed his purpose of getting bran to bloodraven, i never thought he would be bound to bran himself.

[Blazfemur]

on the same hand, why wouldnt he lead bran, or at least instruct him, BACK to winterfell to satisfy (there must always be a stark), how would coldhands know to lead bran to bloodraven, if he was bound to bran to begin with?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

on the same hand, why wouldnt he lead bran, or at least instruct him, BACK to winterfell to satisfy (there must always be a stark), how would coldhands know to lead bran to bloodraven, if he was bound to bran to begin with?

Bloodraven is a secret Stark.

Ok, there is two chances:

1. CH is bind to the Starks, and BR told him he was meant to help Bran because he's a Stark after all, and he needs to protect him. Also, BR knew this because he has seen the same things Bran has, including the "creation" of CH. Or...

2. That ritual caused the man that was CH was be tied to the weirwood, even if he died, and BR, being now part of them, raised him as servant and put him under the service of his own and Bran.

[Blazfemur]

Bloodraven is a secret Stark.

Ok, there is two chances:

1. CH is bind to the Starks, and BR told him he was meant to help Bran because he's a Stark after all, and he needs to protect him. Also, BR knew this because he has seen the same things Bran has, including the "creation" of CH. Or...

2. That ritual caused the man that was CH was be tied to the weirwood, even if he died, and BR, being now part of them, raised him as servant and put him under the service of his own and Bran.

kinda like 2, not gonna lie. it would also compromise that he was in fact the man slaughtered in bran's vision.

[DamnDirtyApe]

I doubt Bloodraven is a secret Stark. His mother was a Blackwood, so his family line goes all the way back to the North, in the days before the Andals arrived, so it's quite likely that the affinity he has for the weirwoods, the Greensight, etc, could have come from that heritage.

[Mithras]

I think Coldhands' scarf covers the fact that his mouth does not move yet he still "talks".

The truth is that Coldhands does not breathe, so he cannot talk. Bloodraven produces the sound, just like Quaithe was producing sound and image from a long distance.

[aryagonnakill#2]

It doesn't jive with leaf saying "they killed him long ago". In that statement "they" refers to wights, and by possible extension WW's themselves, but certainly not to humans.

[Sword of the Morgan]

This is a new idea to me. Interesting.

[Frey family reunion]

I've always thought Coldhands has a throat injury - his voice is weak and it 'rattles,' much like Stoneheart's voice.

No, Coldhands has no problem in communicating which is in opposition to Stoneheart. I've brought this up before, but it appears that Bran's assumption that Coldheart doesn't "breathe" may not be completely accurate. Our voice comes from exhaling air through our voice box (get it, words are wind). The fact that Coldheart can speak means he is inhaling and then exhaling air. Now when it's really cold, our breath appears white, and if we wore a scarf over our face, the scarf may become icy when we breath through it. But this isn't because of the air we exhale, it's because of the moisture in our lungs and mouth being exhaled along with the air. So, Coldhands is exhaling air, it's just devoid of moisture because his mouth, and lungs have no moisture. The fact that he can speak means he probably does not have a throat injury like Lady Stoneheart. The rattling sound may be because of how dry his mouth, throat and lungs are. Lady Stoneheart has trouble speaking because of her throat slash. Which is why she needs to close her throat up to try and get a word out. She needs to be able to exhale through her voice box as opposed to the gash in her throat.

[The Dragons Hand]

............Golden tooth, Daario was dead the entire time, thank the gods.

Daenerys is banging a imposter, dodged a tie-dyed bullet there.

[Batbob45]

He could be the The Shrouded Lord. both are very mysterious.

[Blazfemur]

I doubt Bloodraven is a secret Stark. His mother was a Blackwood, so his family line goes all the way back to the North, in the days before the Andals arrived, so it's quite likely that the affinity he has for the weirwoods, the Greensight, etc, could have come from that heritage.

not stark, i agree. perhaps a lesser house dedicated to stark, wouldnt be so out of the question, as in stark was their leige lord.

No, Coldhands has no problem in communicating which is in opposition to Stoneheart. I've brought this up before, but it appears that Bran's assumption that Coldheart doesn't "breathe" may not be completely accurate. Our voice comes from exhaling air through our voice box (get it, words are wind). The fact that Coldheart can speak means he is inhaling and then exhaling air. Now when it's really cold, our breath appears white, and if we wore a scarf over our face, the scarf may become icy when we breath through it. But this isn't because of the air we exhale, it's because of the moisture in our lungs and mouth being exhaled along with the air. So, Coldhands is exhaling air, it's just devoid of moisture because his mouth, and lungs have no moisture. The fact that he can speak means he probably does not have a throat injury like Lady Stoneheart. The rattling sound may be because of how dry his mouth, throat and lungs are. Lady Stoneheart has trouble speaking because of her throat slash. Which is why she needs to close her throat up to try and get a word out. She needs to be able to exhale through her voice box as opposed to the gash in her throat.

also, when we breathe "steam," it's the change in temperature of hot hitting cold air. his lungs just may be cold and meld with the atmosphere around it since he's dead, no heat *shrugs* brainstorming answers.

It doesn't jive with leaf saying "they killed him long ago". In that statement "they" refers to wights, and by possible extension WW's themselves, but certainly not to humans.

quite literally the text it simply "they," without definition. it's not specified whether or not they were insinuated wights, there was no definition given for "they." could it have been wights? certainly.

if we acknowledge separation of tlh from tnk, coldhands could fit the bill for tlh. however, im one of the tlh=tnk cultists.

id like to read up on the whole karstark separating from stark lore. want to read how it happened, the circumstances of why it happened. does anyone have a good meaty thread or link that acknowledges this?

[Ser Cold Fingers]

I think Coldhands' scarf covers the fact that his mouth does not move yet he still "talks".

The truth is that Coldhands does not breathe, so he cannot talk. Bloodraven produces the sound, just like Quaithe was producing sound and image from a long distance.

This.

Blazfemur...IIRC, the man in Bran's vision was his last vision, but what would be the first in real time as the Wierwood trees are small...but wouldn't he be on the wrong side of the wall?

Or are you suggesting that the sacrifice was prior the Wall's existence?

As with the other Coldhands thread, I present my boring Coldhands theory.

The Theory

My Coldhands theory is that he is just a thrall of Brynden Rivers (Bloodraven) and that his identity will never be fully known nor is his identity important to the series. He has served is greater purpose and I wouldn’t be surprised if we never see him again (but I hope he does reappear).

Who was Coldhands?

Coldhands was a member of the Night’s Watch who also disappeared with Brynden Rivers on a ranging in 252AC (I think BR was summoned to the cave similarly to how BR summoned Bran). Based on what we know of the NW, it would be considered rare for a ranging to be led by the Lord Commander. Therefore one would assume that the LC would go ranging with trusted men, such as a member of the Raven’s Teeth, his personal guard? We know from TWoIaF that many of the 200 men who took the black with BR were archers from the Raven’s Teeth.

Unlike BR, this man did not reach the safety of the cave, possibly dying to protect his LC. And most likely, the remainder of BR’s ranging party was killed as well (one of the Wights that attacked Bran’s group near the entrance to the cave was identified as a member of the Watch due to him wearing black).

After CH’s death, he did reanimate as a Wight and remained outside of the Cave’s entrance. He could not enter the cave because, just as now, the cave is warded (or at least the entrance is warded). BR, after training with his greenseer (similar to Bran’s current training, not like this montage), BR learned how the Others controlled the Wights and what it would take to break the Other’s influence…Fire!

[Ser Cold Fingers]

I'm sorry but where is it mentioned? I cannot recollect it, could you post the book text please

The Sickle is in reference to Bran's last vision.

ADwD, Chapter 34 - Bran III

Watching the flames, Bran decided he would stay awake till Meera came back. Jojen would be unhappy, he knew, but Meera would be glad for him, He did not remember closing his eyes.

… but then somehow he was back at Winterfell again, in the godswood looking down upon his father. Lord Eddard seemed much younger this time. His hair was brown, with no hint of grey in it, his head bowed. “… let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them,” he prayed, “and let

…my lady wife find it in her heart to forgive …”

“Father.” Bran’s voice was a whisper in the wind, a rustle in the leaves. “Father, it’s me. It’s Bran. Brandon.”

Eddard Stark lifted his head and looked long at the weirwood, frowning, but he did not speak. He cannot see me, Bran realized, despairing. He wanted to reach out and touch him, but all that he could do was watch and listen. I am in the tree. I am inside the heart tree, looking out of its red eyes, but the weirwood cannot talk, so I can’t.

Eddard Stark resumed his prayer. Bran felt his eyes fill up with tears. But were they his own tears, or the weirwood’s? If I cry, will the tree begin to weep?

The rest of his father’s words were drowned out by a sudden clatter of wood on wood. Eddard Stark dissolved, like mist in a morning sun. Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn’t be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout. “You be quiet, stupid,” the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. “It’s just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?” She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, but before she got him out again, the two of them were gone.

After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her. Then there came a brown-haired girl slender as a spear who stood on the tips of her toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor. A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows. The tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn. And now the lords Bran glimpsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to them.

Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand.

“No,” said Bran, “no, don’t,” but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man’s feet drummed against the earth … but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.

[Blazfemur]

This.

Blazfemur...IIRC, the man in Bran's vision was his last vision, but what would be the first in real time as the Wierwood trees are small...but wouldn't he be on the wrong side of the wall? Correct, though, the weirwood is ont he other side of the wall, and bran saw his father, didnt he? his vision is capable of surpassing the wall.

Or are you suggesting that the sacrifice was prior the Wall's existence? Oh it certainly can be, or in the midst of it's building. His life or blood, could have been the seal to invoke some kind of warding/magic. Or, the wall could have already been up, we dont know for sure and there really isnt any evidence to suggest either way, the only thing is does prove, was that it was long ago.

As with the other Coldhands thread, I present my boring Coldhands theory. Hmm..

The Theory

My Coldhands theory is that he is just a thrall of Brynden Rivers (Bloodraven) and that his identity will never be fully known nor is his identity important to the series. He has served is greater purpose and I wouldn’t be surprised if we never see him again (but I hope he does reappear). You may very well be right, however it's good to give him a backstory. Whether or not he serves a purpose for rpesent/future, quite frankly it doesnt matter to me, he served his purpose in bringing Bran to Bloodraven, HOWEVER, if he did something of merit/impact int he past, that led him to what he's become, I certainly would like to know about it. I like JCRB's interpetation, that he WAS the sacrifice, and that sacrifice bound him to the Stark name.

Who was Coldhands?

Coldhands was a member of the Night’s Watch who also disappeared with Brynden Rivers on a ranging in 252AC (I think BR was summoned to the cave similarly to how BR summoned Bran). Based on what we know of the NW, it would be considered rare for a ranging to be led by the Lord Commander. Therefore one would assume that the LC would go ranging with trusted men, such as a member of the Raven’s Teeth, his personal guard? We know from TWoIaF that many of the 200 men who took the black with BR were archers from the Raven’s Teeth.

Unlike BR, this man did not reach the safety of the cave, possibly dying to protect his LC. And most likely, the remainder of BR’s ranging party was killed as well (one of the Wights that attacked Bran’s group near the entrance to the cave was identified as a member of the Watch due to him wearing black).

After CH’s death, he did reanimate as a Wight and remained outside of the Cave’s entrance. He could not enter the cave because, just as now, the cave is warded (or at least the entrance is warded). BR, after training with his greenseer (similar to Bran’s current training, not like this montage), BR learned how the Others controlled the Wights and what it would take to break the Other’s influence…Fire! I can't judge a fair assumption on this because there's a part of me that believes Bloodraven was led there to be imprisoned there.. Think of it, we met him, he's a rotting, decayed, (assumed to be alive) being that looks like a decrepit corpse, CHAINED to a weirwood prison. His power is just too much, and needed to be sealed away. Furthermore by the barrier on the cave, if he's dead, he may be trapped IN there as well. But to a warg, there are many ways of escaping..

Sorry, wont turn this into a Bloodraven conspiracy thread haha. This is on Coldhands only.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Sorry, wont turn this into a Bloodraven conspiracy thread haha. This is on Coldhands only.

That was about Clodhands! :D

He just has a deep connection to BR.

[Blazfemur]

That was about Clodhands! :D

He just has a deep connection to BR.

no no i know, i myself went off on a tangent, an di myself apologize haha, youre spot on

[Ser Cold Fingers]

no no i know, i myself went off on a tangent, an di myself apologize haha, youre spot on

I was coming back to this thread to add to my previous post...."What if BR gave CH his scarf?" Then what? ha

And I didn't even catch that you replied inside of the quote! DUH! It's Friday afternoon...my brain is shutting down...

[Blazfemur]

I was coming back to this thread to add to my previous post...."What if BR gave CH his scarf?" Then what? ha

And I didn't even catch that you replied inside of the quote! DUH! It's Friday afternoon...my brain is shutting down...

dude im totally there, im "at work" right now, but im all over this thread like cream cheese ont he bagel i daydream that im having

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Correct, though, the weirwood is ont he other side of the wall, and bran saw his father, didnt he? his vision is capable of surpassing the wall.

What I was getting at is that if he was killed south of the wall, how did the pass through the wall? He couldn't pass through the Black Gate, that is why he saved Sam and had him go through.

Oh it certainly can be, or in the midst of it's building. His life or blood, could have been the seal to invoke some kind of warding/magic. Or, the wall could have already been up, we dont know for sure and there really isnt any evidence to suggest either way, the only thing is does prove, was that it was long ago.

So if CH was killed prior to the wall or during the construction, his body could have been dumped on the north side, preserving it until BR could 'call upon him' or 'resurrect' him as a wight. Which is similar to what I speculated, just a different person. This puts CH under BR exclusive control...eliminating CH's own thought process...basically making him a puppet of BR's.

You may very well be right, however it's good to give him a backstory. Whether or not he serves a purpose for rpesent/future, quite frankly it doesnt matter to me, he served his purpose in bringing Bran to Bloodraven, HOWEVER, if he did something of merit/impact int he past, that led him to what he's become, I certainly would like to know about it. I like JCRB's interpetation, that he WAS the sacrifice, and that sacrifice bound him to the Stark name.

I admit, I do like this interpretation...not sure what to do with it just yet.

I can't judge a fair assumption on this because there's a part of me that believes Bloodraven was led there to be imprisoned there.. Think of it, we met him, he's a rotting, decayed, (assumed to be alive) being that looks like a decrepit corpse, CHAINED to a weirwood prison. His power is just too much, and needed to be sealed away. Furthermore by the barrier on the cave, if he's dead, he may be trapped IN there as well. But to a warg, there are many ways of escaping..

Ahhhh....I see what you're saying..