Middle East and North Africa 18

[Frey Filet]

I don't know. Isn't Hillary essentially firmly in Israeli camp? If she assumes the presidency, do you think she'll give her all to reach a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict even if it means seriously clamping down on Israel? From what I've heard, I find it hard to believe.

I was just referring to the current US regime- Obama has definitely set a precedent for not unconditionally backing Israeli policy in regards to the Palestinians.

[Red Hermit]

So ISIS has been pushed out of Tikrit thanks to the power of Shiite militias, who are now terrorizing the local Sunnis as revenge.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/shiite-militias-n326396

Once the big bad that is ISIS is replaced with generic sectarian civil war I wonder how much the media and politicians will care.

[Shryke]

So ISIS has been pushed out of Tikrit thanks to the power of Shiite militias, who are now terrorizing the local Sunnis as revenge.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/shiite-militias-n326396

Once the big bad that is ISIS is replaced with generic sectarian civil war I wonder how much the media and politicians will care.

About as much as they did when it was a generic sectarian civil war before ISIS.

[Horza]

I think the overt involvement of Iranian forces and the heavy role of Shia militias does change things somewhat. We've already seen what it's done to poor old Tom Friedman, so I could see a swing on the part of some of the US foreign policy community towards if not ISIS itself, some kind of Sunni political grouping. But as Shryke points out, Iraq has had a brutal sectarian civil war for a decade plus without troubling the Western world overly much.

[Dicer]

Ace,

So, how do you propose to find a way to peace?

One state with equal rights for all its citizens. There's no two state anymore. Netanyahu and his cabal are not going to let it happen, the US does not care and Europe does not have enough power to do it. But a system of apartheid and ethnic cleansing will also ultimately have a limit. How many Palestinians can Israel kill with impunity? There has to be a limit, a breaking point somewhere when the so called civilized world says 'Enough!'. But racist and xenophobic comments about the Palestinian people being a demographic threat from people like Obama and other leaders of the 'civilized' west don't help matters any.

Scaremongering like this will not help either:

Her mother isn’t Jewish, and by Jewish custom — and Israeli law — the faith is passed on by matrilineal descent, so I converted my daughter. Making sure she is Jewish in the eyes of the Jewish state gives me peace of mind. If the Gestapo ever comes again, she and her descendants will have a place to go. Just in case.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/can-israel-remain-a-democracy/2015/03/20/49d766a8-cf06-11e4-a2a7-9517a3a70506_story.html?wprss=rss_todays-opeds&utm_content=buffer86f98&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

That's right. He needs an ethnically pure Jewish state because otherwise the Gestapo is going to come get him! And this nonsense is in the Washington post.

And more racist shit from Americans about Palestinians.

There are roughly 4.4 million Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem and another 1.4 million living inside Israel . That puts them in rough parity with Jews, who number just over 6 million. Higher Palestinian population growth and fertility rates indicate that Jews will be a minority between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean in a few years.

Without two states, there won’t be even one Jewish state if — God forbid — my daughter or her progeny someday have no place else to go.

Hey, those Palestinians have higher fertility rates! Pretty damn dangerous to the purity of the Jewish state. Which is necessary because otherwise, Gestapo!

Here's Bill Maher defending Netanyahu's racism with more racism and some stupid analogies.

We got off on a tangent. Let me ask the question I was going to ask about this, which is when he said that, 'Arab voters are coming out in droves to the polls,' I heard a lot of commentators here say, it would be as if Mitt Romney in 2012 on the eve of the election said black voters are coming out in droves to the polls. But I don't know if that's really a great analogy. I think that would be a good analogy if America was a country that was surrounded by 12 or 13 completely black nations who had militarily attacked us many times, including as recently as last year. Would we let them vote? I don't know. When we were attacked by the Japanese, we didn't just not let them vote, we rounded them up and put them in camps.

Awesome!

And there you have it. In an attempt to justify electoral race-baiting by Israel’s prime minister, Bill Maher suggests that arbitrarily putting over 100,000 American citizens in internment camps — on the basis of race — in response to a threat that never materialized was somehow justified?

When the world noticed Netanyahu’s racist campaigning last week I wrote about how Americans should rethink the idea that the bonds tying together Netanyahu’s Israel and the United States are cemented with shared values. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe they do share values after all.

http://972mag.com/no-bill-maher-netanyahus-campaign-was-indeed-racist/104750/

And more continued racism against Arab-Americans: A New York school had to apologize for reciting the pledge of allegiance in Arabic (As part of their foreign languages week where the pledge was to be read out in many different languages including Spanish, Italian and Japanese)

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/03/19/upstate-n-y-school-apologizes-for-reciting-pledge-of-allegiance-in-arabic/

A school in upstate New York has apologized for reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in Arabic after getting complaints from district residents who lost family members in the war in Afghanistan.

The pledge was read in Arabic during Wednesday morning announcements at Pine Bush High School, located 65 miles northwest of New York City.

Some students were angered and responded with catcalls. District Superintendent Joan Carbone told the Times Herald-Record of Middletown that she received complaints from residents who lost relatives in Afghanistan and from Jewish parents.

So Arabic is persona non grata because America decided to invade and attack Afghanistan and Jewish parents don't like Arabs or something? Considering the open hostility, racism and Islamophobia that Arabs and Muslims continue to face in the US and European countries like Germany and France its them that should be fearing the Gestapo. Or the NSA.

[Dicer]

The Wall Street Journal goes all out for dictator Sisi (Who slaughtered some 2000 innocent protestors and sentenced many thousands to death) and calls him 'Islam's improbable reformer'!

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-weekend-interview-islams-improbable-reformer-1426889862

‘We are keen on a strategic relationship with the U.S. above everything else,’ says Egypt’s new president. ‘And we will never turn our backs on you—even if you turn your backs on us.’

How beautiful. Its a wonderful relationship between two governments with shared values when it comes to oppression and the massacre of innocents.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/23/world/middleeast/egyptian-medical-examiners-spokesman-blames-shaimaa-el-sabbaghs-death-on-her-thinness.html?referrer=

A poet and activist hit with a blast of birdshot from a police shotgun during a march to lay flowers in Tahrir Square in Cairo died because she was too thin, a spokesman for Egypt’s medical examiner said late Saturday.

The poet and activist, Shaimaa el-Sabbagh, was killed on Jan. 24, a day before the anniversary of Egypt’s Arab Spring revolt in 2011. Before the marchers could reach Tahrir Square, riot police officers blasted them with tear gas and birdshot at close range as photographers and cameramen watched. Their haunting images of Ms. Sabbagh dying in the arms of another marcher have made her a symbol of the epidemic of police abuse.

On Saturday, though, the spokesman for the Medical Forensics Authority said in a television interview that Ms. Sabbagh, 31, would not have died had she not been so slender.

She got killed because she's too thin. If she only been chubbier...

“Her body was like skin over bone, as they say,” he said. “She was very thin. She did not have any percentage of fat. So the small pellets penetrated very easily, and four or five out of all the pellets that penetrated her body — these four or five pellets were able to penetrate her heart and lungs, and these are the ones that caused her death.”

A chubbier person would have survived with only minor injuries, Mr. Abdel Hamid argued, noting that a man standing next to her was hit in the neck but nonetheless lived.

Skinny people, beware!

[Mr Fixit]

So Arabic is persona non grata because America decided to invade and attack Afghanistan and Jewish parents don't like Arabs or something? Considering the open hostility, racism and Islamophobia that Arabs and Muslims continue to face in the US and European countries like Germany and France its them that should be fearing the Gestapo. Or the NSA.

Also, what Arabic has to do with Afghanistan is beyond me. But hey, one can hardly keep all those ragheads straight, right?

[Mr Fixit]

The Wall Street Journal goes all out for dictator Sisi (Who slaughtered some 2000 innocent protestors and sentenced many thousands to death) and calls him 'Islam's improbable reformer'!

Of course they do! Shall we remember CNN's hagiography of another great Arab leader, HRM Abdullah of Saudi Arabia?

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/22/middleeast/saudi-arabia-king-abdullah-dies/

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/23/world/saudi-arabia-abdullah-legacy-5-facts/

My favourite is 'Reforms for women'! If only all women were so fortunate to live in Saudi Arabia!

[Dicer]

Of course they do! Shall we remember CNN's hagiography of another great Arab leader, HRM Abdullah of Saudi Arabia?

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/22/middleeast/saudi-arabia-king-abdullah-dies/

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/23/world/saudi-arabia-abdullah-legacy-5-facts/

My favourite is 'Reforms for women'! If only all women were so fortunate to live in Saudi Arabia!

And this is from the supposedly liberal CNN. I wonder if most Americans really swallow this shit... Maybe that's why some of them say stuff like 'they hate our freedom!' or 'Islam is at war with the west!'. No they don't hate your freedom. They hate your support for vile despots like Abdullah and Sisi who take away their freedom and who oppress and kill them with American weapons and money.

[Mr Fixit]

And this is from the supposedly liberal CNN. I wonder if most Americans really swallow this shit... Maybe that's why some of them say stuff like 'they hate our freedom!' or 'Islam is at war with the west!'. No they don't hate your freedom. They hate your support for vile despots like Abdullah and Sisi who take away their freedom and who oppress and kill them with American weapons and money.

That's why I always chuckle when I hear the word 'liberal'. I suppose such media are liberal with regard to primarily domestic issues like abortion, death penalty, tax policy, and the like. But where foreign policy is concerned, I find there is precious little difference between 'liberal' and 'conservative', 'left' and 'right'. In fact, self-righteous and high-minded zealousness of the liberals can be even more dangerous. After all, it's easy to forget that the post-Cold War interventionist warmongering mindset didn't originate with Bush Jr but with the Clinton administration.

[aceluby]

That's why I always chuckle when I hear the word 'liberal'. I suppose such media are liberal with regard to primarily domestic issues like abortion, death penalty, tax policy, and the like. But where foreign policy is concerned, I find there is precious little difference between 'liberal' and 'conservative', 'left' and 'right'. In fact, self-righteous and high-minded zealousness of the liberals can be even more dangerous. After all, it's easy to forget that the post-Cold War interventionist warmongering mindset didn't originate with Bush Jr but with the Clinton administration.

Why stop at Clinton? Did the Cold War mean we weren't interventionists? Of course not, so let's put the blame where it truly belongs. At the feet of Truman and every single President/Congress since. Cuz 'Murika! Fuck Yeah!

[Shryke]

That's why I always chuckle when I hear the word 'liberal'. I suppose such media are liberal with regard to primarily domestic issues like abortion, death penalty, tax policy, and the like. But where foreign policy is concerned, I find there is precious little difference between 'liberal' and 'conservative', 'left' and 'right'. In fact, self-righteous and high-minded zealousness of the liberals can be even more dangerous. After all, it's easy to forget that the post-Cold War interventionist warmongering mindset didn't originate with Bush Jr but with the Clinton administration.

Then you obviously don't pay any attention to the US at all.

Seriously, go look up who the candidate running against Obama was in 2008. Look at his foreign policy statements.

[Mr Fixit]

Statements are irrelevant. Actual policy is what matters. And honestly, whoever's sworn in, megatons of high yield explosive will be the response Number One. Has the presidency of the Nobel laureate taught us nothing?

[Shryke]

Statements are irrelevant. Actual policy is what matters. And honestly, whoever's sworn in, megatons of high yield explosive will be the response Number One. Has the presidency of the Nobel laureate taught us nothing?

Neither Clinton nor Obama invaded and occupied 2 countries.

[Mr Fixit]

Neither Clinton nor Obama invaded and occupied 2 countries.

Clinton and NATO invaded Yugoslavia and occupied a part of its territory without the approval of the Security Council, expressly violating Articles 5 and 6, and indirectly Article 1 of the NATO Charter. That same territory is today a failed state that proclaimed independence, which the West promptly recognised, without any kind of referendum or negotiated settlement. Obama and his European partners bombed Libya and had a hand, together with S Arabia, Turkey, and Qatar in arming Syrian rebels, not to mention ISIS, which helped devastate the country. I'll grant you that Obama didn't occupy a country. Good for him.

[The Iceman of the North]

Clinton and NATO invaded Yugoslavia and occupied a part of its territory without the approval of the Security Council, expressly violating Articles 5 and 6, and indirectly Article 1 of the NATO Charter. That same territory is today a failed state that proclaimed independence, which the West promptly recognised, without any kind of referendum or negotiated settlement.

You know, if you ignore the three parliamentary elections preceding that declaration of independence all resulting with a clear majority to parties actively campaigning for independence...

[The Once and Future King]

And the Western world continues to ignore what is happening outside of Europe or Israel.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/3/23/life-as-a-boko-haram-captive.html

[Eyron]

And the Western world continues to ignore what is happening outside of Europe or Israel.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/3/23/life-as-a-boko-haram-captive.html

By the western world, do you mean the US?

We get a lot of news from the Middle East and conflict areas in Africa, on our news. Currently especially from Syria, and the other regions of the Arab nations where ISIS battles are ongoing. There is an interest in those events since a big number of our population hail from there, and now many from those areas have fled here. Again. We take in refugees from there en masse, from every war that has been the last 4 decades.

Where I live in Europe, we don't get a lot of reports lately from Israel or Palestine on national news. We heard almost nothing about the election. And not a whole lot about the rest of Europe either apart from Ukraine, Russia and whenever there is something happening temporarily in other European nations, apart from regular economy and election reports. That's just the way of news.

I also don't know what you want us to do with the information about Boko Haram, do you mean we should ignore what goes on in Israel because there is something horrible going on someplace else? Of course there should be measures taken against Boko Haram, imo, but that doesn't mean we should look away from Israel.

Israel has a special status to all of the European and western nations due to history and involvement, and it has been supported for that reason. That also means that what goes on in Israel is tied closely to us, and casts a shade, since it's in a sense a part of the western world. Israel can't have one without the other. If the support is not as strong as it was, that's all on the governing politicians of Israel, really.

[The Once and Future King]

By the western world, do you mean the US?

We get a lot of news from the Middle East and conflict areas in Africa, on our news. Currently especially from Syria, and the other regions of the Arab nations where ISIS battles are ongoing. There is an interest in those events since a big number of our population hail from there, and now many from those areas have fled here. Again. We take in refugees from there en masse, from every war that has been the last 4 decades.

Where I live in Europe, we don't get a lot of reports lately from Israel or Palestine on national news. We heard almost nothing about the election. And not a whole lot about the rest of Europe either apart from Ukraine, Russia and whenever there is something happening temporarily in other European nations, apart from regular economy and election reports. That's just the way of news.

I also don't know what you want us to do with the information about Boko Haram, do you mean we should ignore what goes on in Israel because there is something horrible going on someplace else? Of course there should be measures taken against Boko Haram, imo, but that doesn't mean we should look away from Israel.

Israel has a special status to all of the European and western nations due to history and involvement, and it has been supported for that reason. That also means that what goes on in Israel is tied closely to us, and casts a shade, since it's in a sense a part of the western world. Israel can't have one without the other. If the support is not as strong as it was, that's all on the governing politicians of Israel, really.

I dont mean its unknown just noone cares. There is a enormous gang of "religious" thugs terrorizing a third of a continent and noone cares cause rhey are not bothering western countries

[sToNED_CAT]

Neither Clinton nor Obama invaded and occupied 2 countries.

No, they did not occupied them. But that's because they are both cowards unable to bear political costs of American lives lost, not because of being dovish. Obama bombed Libya and only unlikely alliance of Tea Party and liberal doves prevented him doing the same in Syria. And to even mention Clinton is laughable. He militarily intervened in Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq. Hell, when Bush ran against Gore he said he won't wage unnecessary wars and won't engage in nation building. Such was the image of Clinton administration in late 90ties. Of course those wars resulted in far less american casualties, than Iraq and Afghanistan, so they are largely forgotten. Of course political consequences were significant (interventions of Yugoslavia resulting in significant loss of American support in Eastern Europe and that in Iraq of support among Arabs).