Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 TOaFK,Even better the children should have access to a decent culture one not based on a backwards take on a violent religion.Wait, so being a Muslim means you are an adhearant to a faith that is inherantly violent and dangerous? That's your position or hyperbole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 And here I thought he was referring to the settlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Once and Future King Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 TOaFK,Wait, so being a Muslim means you are an adhearant to a faith that is inherantly violent and dangerous? That's your position or hyperbole?I clearly said a twisted form. If you think terror organizations like hamas and the plf who run programs like jihad for kids are the purest form of islam thats your opinion. But the scholars you qoute on other threads disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Maybe the AKP Turks and Erdogan are right when it comes to Arabs, Ottoman empire and the like...Saudi Arabia is our ally, Iran is our "enemy"...unbelievable. And before some smartass starts the Nuclear discussion:1) Iran has the same right for a civil use of Nuclear power as all other countries in the world2) the plans to develop Nuclear weapons were born out of fear - and this fear of external threats are justified (Iraq-Iran war supported by the US and Europe, Saudi/Qatar sponsored fundamentalism etc). 3) a normal relationship with the West is absolutely possibleI was in Iran, I was in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Pakistan and if I had to choose in which country to life, the answer would be Iran by a mile.That's like asking: do you want to play for Bayern Munich or Stoke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicer Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Ingenuity gets one killed in Gaza. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-gaza-fisherman-who-built-his-own-reef--and-was-shot-dead-there-by-an-israeli-gunboat-10141357.html The underwater rock formations provide the best fishing grounds off Gaza, but they are just beyond the limit set by the Israelis for local boats. Tawfiq Abu Riyala dreamt up an ingenious plan to solve this problem; but it may have ended up costing him his life. The 32-year-old fisherman had built up his own artificial rock with planks of wood, tyres, and bits of metal, seemingly well within the area in which he and his colleagues are allowed to operate. It was while he was adding to this pile that an Israeli gunboat opened fire, wounding him fatally. Tawfiq and four other fishermen were in two boats that he owned. Both vessels were seized: two of the men were injured; two others arrested. “I told him not to go that day, because the Israelis were doing a lot of shooting; but those boats had cost him $50,000 [£34,000] and he had to earn money to pay back the loan he had taken for them,” said his brother Mohammed, 29. Reminds me of this guy who found a replacement for cement to build his house: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/12/palestine-gaza-reconstruction--siege-new-technology.html# The pressing needs of Gazans has inspired innovators to develop solutions through available tools. Three successive Israeli wars in the last six years have devastated the Gaza Strip, most recently the war in July that destroyed or damaged more than 84,000 houses. Engineer Imad al-Khalidi may have found a temporary solution to help alleviate the lack of construction materials, prevented by Israel from entering the Gaza Strip. In 2008, he started to conduct experiments on natural materials to be used in construction instead of cement, and succeeded in creating a new technique. Khalidi, a soil expert in organic architecture, said that the search for alternatives was based on materials found in Gaza. “We wanted to use local materials as an alternative, to save ourselves and provide the displaced with shelters, as nearly 5,000 housing units were destroyed in the 2008-2009 war. We examined various types of soil in Gaza, and found a suitable type rich in natural welding materials, such as potassium carbonate, magnesium, metal oxides, limestone and sand,” he explained. He pointed out that the natural materials he found act like cement in its different stages, but they are more solid and can last hundreds of years. Khalidi explained the process: “We compose a homogeneous mixture by conducting a soil treatment through pressure, to which we add welding natural materials such as potassium carbonate, ground limestone powder and a small quantity of gypsum, to form an initial coherent product in the brick production. Yet, the strong cohesion begins after it is used and continues to solidify for hundreds of years, and to harden dozens of times more than its initial form. This means that the brick increasingly hardens with time, and has its own characteristics.” Despite Israel and the US doing everything to crush the Palestinians, its encouraging to see them try to find ways around their obstacles instead of just giving up. David and Goliath indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crixus Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 But they throw rocks!!! This is the only response you'll get for the nth time. The death of reason and empathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Ingenuity gets one killed in Gaza.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-gaza-fisherman-who-built-his-own-reef--and-was-shot-dead-there-by-an-israeli-gunboat-10141357.html Reminds me of this guy who found a replacement for cement to build his house:http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/12/palestine-gaza-reconstruction--siege-new-technology.html# Despite Israel and the US doing everything to crush the Palestinians, its encouraging to see them try to find ways around their obstacles instead of just giving up. David and Goliath indeed. That's pretty fucking genius, and those are some beautiful buildings. Bet's on how long it takes for the IDF to screw it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Once and Future King Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Ingenuity gets one killed in Gaza.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-gaza-fisherman-who-built-his-own-reef--and-was-shot-dead-there-by-an-israeli-gunboat-10141357.html Reminds me of this guy who found a replacement for cement to build his house:http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/12/palestine-gaza-reconstruction--siege-new-technology.html# Despite Israel and the US doing everything to crush the Palestinians, its encouraging to see them try to find ways around their obstacles instead of just giving up. David and Goliath indeed.Maybe if hamas wasn't using all the cement given to Gaza to build tunnels into Israel to murder children in their sleep this would not be a problem. No one suffers more at Hamas's hands than the people of Gaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I clearly said a twisted form. No you didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in Black Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Man , Israel could throw these people in gas chambers and there still would be those who would defend it , right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Once and Future King Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 No you didn't.Do you know what backwards means?Even better the children should have access to a decent culture one not based on a backwards take on a violent religion.Or do you feel global Jihad is the purest form of Islam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crixus Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 What absolute rot. Where did he ever imply that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Do you know what backwards means?What I meant was that when Ser Scot said the following:TOaFK,Wait, so being a Muslim means you are an adhearant to a faith that is inherantly violent and dangerous? That's your position or hyperbole?He was right, as he was referring to the fact that you said that they followed a backwards take on a violent religion. Saying their take on Islam is backwards, but also that Islam is violent.Or do you feel global Jihad is the purest form of Islam?As for this, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Once and Future King Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 What I meant was that when Ser Scot said the following:He was right, as he was referring to the fact that you said that they followed a backwards take on a violent religion. Saying their take on Islam is backwards, but also that Islam is violent.As for this, what?do you deny Islam is a religion whose history from its very founding is drowning in blood? Either way that is not the issue. The issue is that the "duly elected goverment" of Gaza is a terrorist group who believe and preach Jihad. Death not only against Israel but to all non-believers (me) and infact anyone who does not believe exactly the way they do (hopefully you). If these kids were raised in a society where mickey mouse doesnt tell you to murder your neighbors https://youtu.be/M9g1zcmxfII they would probably be alot better off. because when it comes down to it these kids are also victims of Hamas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 do you deny Islam is a religion whose history from its very founding is drowning in blood? Either way that is not the issue. The issue is that the "duly elected goverment" of Gaza is a terrorist group who believe and preach Jihad. Death not only against Israel but to all non-believers (me) and infact anyone who does not believe exactly the way they do (hopefully you). If these kids were raised in a society where mickey mouse doesnt tell you to murder your neighbors https://youtu.be/M9g1zcmxfII they would probably be alot better off. because when it comes down to it these kids are also victims of HamasLook, I won't defend Hamas. But you've got to give Israel their share of the blame. Hamas didn't happen in a vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Once and Future King Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Look, I won't defend Hamas. But you've got to give Israel their share of the blame. Hamas didn't happen in a vacuum.Thats just it. Israel has it issues but hamas is a regional offshoot of the muslim brotherhood. Their founder was Haj Amin al-Husseini a collaborator with Hitler and together with the PLF (now called Fatah) committed numerous atrocities inculding the Progroms in Safed and Hebron.Hamas is not a result of Israeli tactics. Israeli tactics are a sad result of Hamas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 do you deny Islam is a religion whose history from its very founding is drowning in blood? Either way that is not the issue. The issue is that the "duly elected goverment" of Gaza is a terrorist group who believe and preach Jihad. Death not only against Israel but to all non-believers (me) and infact anyone who does not believe exactly the way they do (hopefully you). If these kids were raised in a society where mickey mouse doesnt tell you to murder your neighbors https://youtu.be/M9g1zcmxfII they would probably be alot better off. because when it comes down to it these kids are also victims of HamasThe point is that you said Islam is a violent religion, which is your opinion, but when Ser Scot pointed it out, you denied it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicer Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Look, I won't defend Hamas. But you've got to give Israel their share of the blame. Hamas didn't happen in a vacuum. As I said earlier, I consider Israel to be more morally reprehensible than Hamas. Israel is the occupier here, Hamas is the resistance movement fighting back against the colonial occupation, brutal oppression, torture and imprisonment that the Palestinians live through every day. It's violence in the struggle for liberation. If no one else is standing up for the Palestinians, and if the rest of the world stands silent while a people are being slaughtered, then they can only legitimately turn to Hamas. Unlike the corrupt PA which is Israel's lapdog, Hamas actually fights back. That's why during the last Gaza slaughter, the Al-Qassam brigade of Hamas were heroes to the Gazans. For many of them, to fight back and stand up against their oppressors and be killed, is better than doing nothing and be killed anyway. There is a clear and distinct difference between the state sponsored violence of the colonizer and oppressor (Supported by the West) and the violence of those who fight back. How is the Palestinian armed struggle any different to the armed struggles against colonizers in the forties, fifties and sixties? People who fought against occupation and colonization used violence. Do we condemn the Indians who fought for Indian independence from British oppression? Any struggle against colonialism involves an armed violent component. India had Gandhi, of course, but he was not the only element that led to freedom from the British. There was an armed, violent resistance as well. Bhagat singh, whose birthday is celebrated in India as martyr's day, killed British officers and threw bombs at their legislative assembly. He was hanged by the British, but today he is a hero in liberated India. Israel has killed thousands of civilians, deliberately targeting schools and hospitals and civilian infrastructure and slowly cutting off their means of livelihood (By not allowing them to fish or farm of have access to healthcare and education). If Hamas is a terrorist organization for targeting civilians, then so is Israel as they also target civilians and are far more successful in their endeavors. Israel deliberately kills civilians because they are resisting their occupation instead of meekly submitting to it. Eran Efrati, a former IDF soldier speaking to the Russell Tribunal about the killing of a Palestinian boy after 13 Golani Brigade soldiers were killed in one day, 7 in an armoured vehicle, on July 19, 2014. "...it was a revenge attack. It has nothing to do with the security of people in Israel... it was revenge of the death of soldiers. [as a former soldier] you are not ready for resistance. Nobody can resist you...it's not the killing... we are ready to die...it's the insult... these people who are supposed to be under our full control are willing to raise their head in resistance and that is something that is not acceptable to us... http://www.unjppi.org/idf-eran-efrati-story.html Palestinians have a legitimate right to resistance (That includes armed resistance) to illegal occupation. As explained here: http://972mag.com/on-the-palestinians-legal-right-to-fight-the-occupation/30855/ http://mondoweiss.net/2011/04/lawyer-at-counterpunch-validates-palestinian-right-of-armed-resistance-to-occupation http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21559.htm https://www.icrc.org/ihl/WebART/470-750004 The Palestinian’s legal right to resist occupation—to fight for their ability to promote, sustain, and nurture human life, to fight for their right to grow, to flourish—comes from two documents: the 1960 Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples and the Fourth Geneva Convention and its subsequent protocols. Taken together, people have the right to “fight against colonial domination and alien occupation in the exercise of their right to self-determination,” Brayer explained. Above and beyond the basic right of all human beings to resist their being killed and harmed, and a society to take armed actions to protect itself, this document legitimizes also national liberation struggles, including, at this time in history, most particularly, the Palestinian people’s struggle for its own freedom. It is this right which legitimizes all Palestinian attempts to lift the yoke of Israeli oppression from Palestine, including all the actions taken by the Palestinians during Operation Cast Lead. And is not the right to resist oppression universal? Does this right not justify the American Revolution and then the French Revolution and the wars of liberation in the 1950′s and 1960′s. Nelson Mandela is a hero because of his resistance to, not because of his subservience to apartheid repression. And the Warsaw Ghetto uprising by the Jewish population against the Nazi repression is a beacon of pride in modern Jewish history. it is also a fact that Jews who joined the resistance, say in Poland or other places under Nazi occupation, are heroes for the Jewish people. I would contend that one cannot deny that right of resistance to Palestinians which the Jews appropriated to themselves, and which is the right of all peoples living under military occupation and/or colonialist regimes. As for not recognizing Israel, lets look at what Likud's (The party elected by the Israelis on the promise of no Palestinian state) platform states: The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.” b. “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem” c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.” d. “The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting. http://www.juancole.com/2014/08/charter-destruction-palestinian.html In effect Israel and its government does not recognize Palestine's right to exist. Netanyahu was elected by the Israelis on the promise that Palestine would never exist while he was prime minister. http://electronicintifada.net/content/truth-israels-intentions/6262 Israel complains endlessly about how Hezbollah and Hamas refuse to recognize Israel’s right to exist. The truth is that no major Israeli party believes in a viable Palestinian state. Just who is denying whose right to exist is clearly stated in the following direct excerpts from the platforms of Israel’s most powerful parties, Labor, Kadima and Likud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicer Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 do you deny Islam is a religion whose history from its very founding is drowning in blood? Do you deny that Judaism is a religion that has led to misery, suffering, death and destruction for millions of Palestinians? Do you deny that Judaism has led to Palestinian children dying and being maimed and tortured, being denied education and medicine and a decent life, kicked out of their homes and farms and not allowed to return because they belong to the wrong religion? Their founder was Haj Amin al-Husseini a collaborator with Hitler and together with the PLF (now called Fatah) committed numerous atrocities inculding the Progroms in Safed and Hebron. Yes, let's punish millions of Palestinians today because one of them collaborated with Hitler. I see that you are in favor of collective punishment. In the same vein why not punish the British royal family since you know they were buddies with the Nazis and some of them even visited Hitler. “I never thought Hitler was such a bad chap,” said George’s brother, the former King Edward VIII, who became the Duke of Windsor after abdicating in 1936. Edward made this remark in 1970 when it was widely known that Hitler and the Nazis had directly and indirectly killed more than 40 million civilians and soldiers. http://www.infowars.com/prince-charles-compares-putin-to-hitler/ And if we are punishing people for pogroms, why not punish the Israelis for the pogroms against the Palestinians during the Nakba when the Irgun and Haganah troops massacred and expelled Arabs from their villages. What about punishing the Israelis for the Sabra and Shatila massacres where between 750-3000 civilians (Palestinian refugees and Lebanese Shiites) were killed while " The Israeli Army surrounded Sabra and Shatila and stationed troops at the exits of the area to prevent camp residents from leaving and, at the Phalangists' request, fired illuminating flares at night". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicer Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 A parliamentary candidate for the UK Independence Party (UKIP) has stepped down after he said US President Barack Obama should be kidnapped and put on trial in Israel, it has emerged. Jeremy Zeid, who was standing as MP for Hendon in northwest London, said Obama should be locked up like a Nazi war criminal. His comments were in response to news the US government had declassified documents revealing the existence of Israel’s nuclear program, which is officially secret. Zeid is a Jewish decorator from Kenton in northwest London, and a former Tory councilor who defected to UKIP. Zeid bowed out of the general election race after writing on his Facebook page: “Once Obama is out of office, the Israelis should move to extradite the bastard or ‘do an Eichmann’ on him and lock him up for leaking state secrets.” http://rt.com/uk/245533-obama-israel-kidnap-ukip/ UKIP is of course the anti-immigration and anti-European Union party. It's rather telling that Likud's biggest fans are often some of the most far right parties in Europe But one growing faction in Europe is welcoming Benjamin Netanyahu and his re-election with open arms. On the ultra-conservative periphery, among the xenophobic, nativist fringe, right-wing populists are unabashedly rejoicing. For them, Europe is engaged in a battle against encroaching Islam – and the hardliner Netanyahu, they believe, is doing yeoman’s work on the front lines. “Benjamin Netanyahu’s victory is a good thing for several reasons,” Geert Wilders, the vociferous anti-Islam incendiary from the Netherlands, said in an emailed statement. “We share his criticism of Iran . . . and his opposition to a Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria.” “We are very happy,” agrees Filip Dewinter, a leading member of Belgian right-wing party Vlaams Belang. “It is a good thing for Israel, but also good for right-wing parties in Europe because he understands that the first danger for Europe is Islamisation.” As groups like the Austrian Freedom Party, France’s Front National and the Swedish Democrats have long histories of anti-Semitism, recent years have seen them attempting to refocus their enmity on Islam and Islamists. http://www.newsweek.com/2015/04/03/why-anti-semitic-right-hailing-netanyahus-victory-316320.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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