Alex Storm Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I think he was definitely crazy and incredibly selfish- too focused on fulfilling abstract prophecy to realize he was ruining the lives of thousands of people. He became so obsessed with TPtwP that he abducted Lyanna Stark. I think she ran off with him. Tbh, I think the honour of the Starks was really exaggerated with Ned, who took it to a new level. From what we see of Brandon, he was definitely not the same type of honourable as Ned (Lady Dustin, battling Littlefinger, etc.)- so it stands to reason Lyanna wasn't ridiculously obsessed with honour either. IIRC, Lyanna wasn't betrothed to anyone? So, the only moral ambiguity here was allowing a married Prince to take her maidenhead (although the fact that he was a Prince may have mitigated the act- like with Robert Baratheon and the Florent girl). What I don't understand is why Rhaegar chose Lyanna? Was there something in the prophecy that suggested he should elope with a Northern lady, or was it just that he found her so beautiful/daring (if she was in fact the concealed knight).Lyanna was betrothed to Robert. So it was more than him just taking her virginity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Yeah, Aerys always seemed such a nice guy to be around. He never madly kill anyone. Not members of the Royal Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGirl Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 ^^^^While I mostly agree with you. I am sure most people didn't think he would shamelessly murder one of his LPs+LP's heir and... he did.To be fair though, I honestly think that, once Elia was back in KL, there was no getting her out of there because Aerys would've made sure she couldn't leave since he wanted to insure Dorne wouldn't join Robert. I am not even thinking about how stupid that fear is since they would be siding with the side of the woman who "stole" their Princess' husband... Really, I'm not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevasTra82 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Yeah, Aerys always seemed such a nice guy to be around. He never madly kill anyone. Aerys may have been mad, but there was no indication that he would blindly kill his own family. Rhaegar left his family in the hands of Red Keep, His father, and members of the Kingsguard. IMO, there really was no safer place for them to be at the given time, so I don't consider Rhaegar leaving them there to fight their attackers at the Trident to be a villianous act. He hid Lyanna at the TOJ and surrounded her with the 3 best members of the Kingsguard, and his family was considered safe, locked away in The Red Keep surrounded by the King (who was probably the most heavily guarded man in the 7 kingdoms at the time), Jaime Lannister (considered the best swordsman in the realm), and countless knights. In Rhaegars mind, his family was well protected, and he took up his sword to battle his usurper at the Trident. Nobody could of ever predicted Jaimes betrayal. his betrayal does not mean Rhaegar is a Villian, IMO. Rhaegar did everything right. Unfortunately Ned and Howland killed The Sword of the Dawn and Jaime betrayed his father...not something Rhaegar could of ever expected to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Too much a mystery still... to me he´s the young prince who got hammered on the Trident, and died... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 No? What did he think would happen? Single combat with Brandon or Robert? Or nothing?I don't know what he thought would happen but does anybody really think kidnapping a girl no matter if her father was powerful would result in a full blown out war? And even when Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna the banners were not called on any side FYI, It was Arryn that called them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I don't know what he thought would happen but does anybody really think kidnapping a girl no matter if her father was powerful would result in a full blown out war?And even when Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna the banners were not called on any side FYI, It was Arryn that called them. To be fair, recent Targaryen-Baratheon history was not on Rhaegar's side. A war did erupt due to a broken betrothal with the daughter of the Laughing Storm. So whilst I don't think it's fair to say war was predictable, it certainly shouldn't have been thought of as beyond the realms of possibility. And certainly some negative reaction was foreseeable, surely. Brandon Stark had to be held back from confronting Rhaegar after the QoLaB incident, so him doing something reckless and foolish was predictable (although probably no-one could have guessed how foolish). Personally, I'm of the opinion, from what we know, that Rhaegar was indeed the dutiful Prince all of his life - until Lyanna. Then he forsook his duty and did something foolish. It's understandable. But neither the QoLaB incident or the eloping with Lyanna suggest a good political mindset. The first, while I'm sure full of good intention, pleased none and angered some. The second pleased none and angered many. Perhaps when we learn the full story, Rhaegar will be revealed as a hero. Or perhaps not. I find it hard to imagine a situation where his eloping with Lyanna is viewed as anything but foolish. Noble, perhaps, but foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throck Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Aerys may have been mad, but there was no indication that he would blindly kill his own family.Who knows? If he thought that Rhaegar betrayed him he might consider Rhaegar and Rhaegar's family as enemies therefore killing Elia and the kids is not that impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Aerys may have been mad, but there was no indication that he would blindly kill his own family. Rhaegar left his family in the hands of Red Keep, His father, and members of the Kingsguard. IMO, there really was no safer place for them to be at the given time, so I don't consider Rhaegar leaving them there to fight their attackers at the Trident to be a villianous act. He hid Lyanna at the TOJ and surrounded her with the 3 best members of the Kingsguard, and his family was considered safe, locked away in The Red Keep surrounded by the King (who was probably the most heavily guarded man in the 7 kingdoms at the time), Jaime Lannister (considered the best swordsman in the realm), and countless knights. In Rhaegars mind, his family was well protected, and he took up his sword to battle his usurper at the Trident. Nobody could of ever predicted Jaimes betrayal. his betrayal does not mean Rhaegar is a Villian, IMO. Rhaegar did everything right. Unfortunately Ned and Howland killed The Sword of the Dawn and Jaime betrayed his father...not something Rhaegar could of ever expected to happen. Well, does one really leave their wife and children in the hands of a dangerously mentally-ill person? I know the Red Keep is theoretically a safe place, but is it safer than Sunspear? Plus, if the rebels were victorious at the Trident, they might very well march next on KL. Where Elia and the kids were. So they would be enduring a siege, or a storming of KL (Stannis managed to get through the defences in half a day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Seeing what happened because of his actions, a civil war, death of Elia and her children, the death of countless other people then imnsho he is most definitely a villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Well, does one really leave their wife and children in the hands of a dangerously mentally-ill person? I know the Red Keep is theoretically a safe place, but is it safer than Sunspear? Plus, if the rebels were victorious at the Trident, they might very well march next on KL. Where Elia and the kids were. So they would be enduring a siege, or a storming of KL (Stannis managed to get through the defences in half a day). His children are the 2nd and 3rd in line for the Iron Throne, you absolutely can not have them anywhere but the Capitol or some other highly guarded Targaryen hold. What if Dorne switches sides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 His children are the 2nd and 3rd in line for the Iron Throne, you absolutely can not have them anywhere but the Capitol or some other highly guarded Targaryen hold. What if Dorne switches sides? But the 2nd and 3rd in line for the throne are also half-Martell. What do they gain by switching sides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 But the 2nd and 3rd in line for the throne are also half-Martell. What do they gain by switching sides? Independence? If they can kill the King and the 2nd in line now they control the next King? A lot of things could happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauis Julius Caesar Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions, or something to that effect. I don't anyone can argue he's a completely "good" guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 He's a tragic romantic hero, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 He's a tragic romantic hero, obviously. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Rheagar is one character I can't decide when to place, for much surrounding him is completely at odds with each other. On one hand, he is described by everyone sans Robert as responsible, talented and intelligent young man who would make a good king. As Aerys grew less and less sane, Rhaegar apparently realized the need to depose him and started to plot with Great Lords. So far so good, but then he decides behaving monstrously stupid. He runs away with Lyanna, thus: 1) postponing his (pretty urgent) depose-Aerys plan for months 2) pissing off at least 4 Paramount Houses (Stark, Baratheon, Arryn, Martell). Even if he couldn't predict civil war, he must have expected massive political clusterfuck to happen 3) missing the escalations of tension and start of war which he maybe could have prevented had he been in KL So, I'm at loss thinking about him. Hopefully next books will shed some light onto his actions and character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 If he becomes a hero for sleeping with a girl, and get her pregnant... i might have to salute such an idol :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGirl Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 If he becomes a hero for sleeping with a girl, and get her pregnant... i might have to salute such an idol :cool4: I will hate myself for a good 5 minutes but I can't not do this... I am sure it was a very hard sacrifice for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasallmaechtigeJ Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I actually never quite got the argument why RR brought the realm into peril. Yes, Robert's family sits the throne and there is the Wot5K now. But most people seem to confuse that these are two altogether different wars with altogether different causes. The argument that RR caused TWot5K is the same as claiming that your parents are murderers for making you if you mureder someone. RR was caused by Rhaegar taking Lysanna and Aerys killing Robert and Brandon among others. Aerys general insanity and its outcomes are the soil which lets the rebellion ripe, with the first two factors being the decisive spark. Robert wins the war and - this is highly important to note - after the war there is peace and the kingdoms stay united. He may have squandered the realms treasures and he may have been an incompetent ruler, but he had the intelligence to name competent hands in his stead. That there was peace after his rebellion (except for the totally unrelated Greyjoy Rebellion) is a fact. TWot5K is not caused by RR or by Rhaegar taking Lysanna in any way. The two events are totally unrelated. It is caused only by Joffrey killing Ned and Jaime and Cersei's incest. Only after the execution and only because of that does Ned's family proclaim war. Only because Joffrey is a product of incest and partly because of his insanity do Renly and Stannis proclaim war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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