College Basketball - 2015 Tournament - And that's why you play the games!

[sperry]

Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Thomas Robinson, and Nerlens Noel were all very good college players, and that's just the three guys that I remember from college. And it would be kind of crazy to think those guys haven't gotten stronger and better from playing in the league for a couple of years against the best players in the world.

The NBA is just an entirely different level of skill, where every team has a cadre of great college players coming off the bench and fighting for minutes.

Except for the sixers. Thomas Robinson is a weird case, because he was a great college player. Nerlens was a good college player, but Towns and Cauley Stein are both better.

Guys like Jerami Grant, Jakarr Sampson, and Ish smith were not great college players.

Again, using the term "the NBA" and the 76ers in the same breath is not fair, because the 76ers are a team that is intentionally playing guys that they know are not NBA players, and would not make a single other roster in the NBA.

[Mother of Mini Dragons]

I think John Calipari's presence intensifies the dislike. I posted about March Madness on another place on the internet and the immediate reaction was intense hatred and dislike of Calipari. I don't like him, but the venom surprised me and I'm a U of L fan. These weren't even fans of rival teams to Kentucky. I think it's obvious that there's a feeling of dislike for Calipari and the way this team is built (whether you agree with the rules or not) and Kentucky is aware of that so much so that an awful lot of press is being spent on feel-good stories about Calipari and the players. I even heard them talking about how Calipari goes to church every day.

I also think people would like to believe their team has a chance (even if it is a small one) but right now college basketball (men's and women's) is dominated by a small number of teams, especially in women's basketball. It is sort of a deflating feeling to know that no matter how much your team tries, they really stand no chance at all of ever reaching the pinnacle or getting close to it (such as a Final Four appearance) b/c the separation between the top level teams and everyone else is so great. And this year's Kentucky team is just so far ahead of everyone else that they have created their own space and level that even the other top level teams are not on and just a shining bright example of giving you that feeling of "You don't even have a chance."

[Maithanet]

Again, using the term "the NBA" and the 76ers in the same breath is not fair, because the 76ers are a team that is intentionally playing guys that they know are not NBA players, and would not make a single other roster in the NBA.

The 76ers are really bad, and they are obviously tanking, but they are still an NBA team. They have wins over legit teams like Atlanta and Cleveland as well as Minnesota, Detroit, Brooklyn, New Orleans, Miami, Orlando, Washington, Indiana, Denver, Charlotte, Sacramento, and New York. They don't even have the worst record in the league (take that, Knicks and Lakers!)

[sperry]

I think John Calipari's presence intensifies the dislike. I posted about March Madness on another place on the internet and the immediate reaction was intense hatred and dislike of Calipari. I don't like him, but the venom surprised me and I'm a U of L fan. These weren't even fans of rival teams to Kentucky. I think it's obvious that there's a feeling of dislike for Calipari and the way this team is built (whether you agree with the rules or not) and Kentucky is aware of that so much so that an awful lot of press is being spent on feel-good stories about Calipari and the players. I even heard them talking about how Calipari goes to church every day.

I also think people would like to believe their team has a chance (even if it is a small one) but right now college basketball (men's and women's) is dominated by a small number of teams, especially in women's basketball. It is sort of a deflating feeling to know that no matter how much your team tries, they really stand no chance at all of ever reaching the pinnacle or getting close to it (such as a Final Four appearance) b/c the separation between the top level teams and everyone else is so great. And this year's Kentucky team is just so far ahead of everyone else that they have created their own space and level that even the other top level teams are not on and just a shining bright example of giving you that feeling of "You don't even have a chance."

I actually like Calipari (now), as it appears he has mellowed out, and he certainly looks after the kids he brings in. He is legitimately acting as a guidance counselor for them in the path they are all choosing, which is to be a professional basketball player. i think guys like Coach K and Roy Williams don't do a great job of trying to help their kids achieve their goals as professional basketball players.

[sperry]

The 76ers are really bad, and they are obviously tanking, but they are still an NBA team. They have wins over legit teams like Atlanta and Cleveland as well as Minnesota, Detroit, Brooklyn, New Orleans, Miami, Orlando, Washington, Indiana, Denver, Charlotte, Sacramento, and New York. They don't even have the worst record in the league (take that, Knicks and Lakers!)

They're wins over the decent teams came before they traded away MCW and K.J. McDaniels, two of their best players, and among the only guys on their roster with an NBA future.

This is interesting, because the 76ers are the first team to ever blatantly, actively try to lose over a long period of time, and Kentucky has the most NBA talent of any college team ever compiled. While other college teams have had more top end talent, their the only team that can field a bunch of bench players that are NBA guys.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

I'll add a relevant article to the discussion:

We Need to Talk About How We Talk About John Calipari

I actually like Calipari (now), as it appears he has mellowed out, and he certainly looks after the kids he brings in. He is legitimately acting as a guidance counselor for them in the path they are all choosing, which is to be a professional basketball player. i think guys like Coach K and Roy Williams don't do a great job of trying to help their kids achieve their goals as professional basketball players.

I disagree with that assertion. UNC and Duke still rank highly among the schools with the most number of NBA draft picks, with UNC sitting at #1 in an info-graphic that someone in this thread once posted (maybe RedEyedGhost).

[eyenon15]

Duke and UNC especially are notorious for teaching fundamentals for the next level.

I suppose from a business sense, Calipari is setting them up nicely. Hell get you on an all star team for one year and get you deep in the tournament so you'll make a name and get drafted high while you are hot.

But MKG, Jon Wall, are terrible with the fundamentals, at times they look just a step above playground ball. JWall and Davis are freaks so they can overcome the rawness.

When players are staying only one year they can't learn much no matter who the coaching staff is

Engage rant in 3.....2...........1

probably the biggest part of why they raised the age limit of the NBA is because they were getting so many of these kids that were just athletes with no knowledge of the game and they were stinking up benches.

I think they should do it like baseball and just draft kids into the NBDL.

Most kids need 2-4 years of learning before pro

[Jaime L]

Have to agree with Maith. NBA strong is a different class than even elite, top 5 pick in the draft, college big man strong. 18 year olds vs. 23 year olds is a huge difference. Anthony Davis was the most polished college freshman to come into the NBA in a decade and is now arguably the best player in the NBA. But what'd he do as a rookie? He put up a 13/8. Good, very efficient stats but still miles from what he is now. Getting stronger is a big part of the learning curve and that's true even for wings like Kevin Durant.

Granted this Kentucky team and this 76ers team are as close as this will probably ever come to being a legit test because of the Wildcats' unique pedigree, size and their depth. And because the 76ers are ridiculously devoid of talent for an NBA team. But even as a team mostly comprised of 2nd rounders, it's a roster made up entirely of guys who were top 40 players in college and now have additional years to mature, get stronger and hone their craft against other professionals as opposed to the Notre Dames of the world. I think the 76ers win 8 times out of 10, but I'd love to see it.

[Bronn Stone]

The difference between an 82 game schedule and 40 or fewer cannot be overstated. College players aren't in the same kind of shape.

[sperry]

Have to agree with Maith. NBA strong is a different class than even elite, top 5 pick in the draft, college big man strong. 18 year olds vs. 23 year olds is a huge difference. Anthony Davis was the most polished college freshman to come into the NBA in a decade and is now arguably the best player in the NBA. But what'd he do as a rookie? He put up a 13/8. Good, very efficient stats but still miles from what he is now. Getting stronger is a big part of the learning curve and that's true even for wings like Kevin Durant.

Granted this Kentucky team and this 76ers team are as close as this will probably ever come to being a legit test because of the Wildcats' unique pedigree, size and their depth. And because the 76ers are ridiculously devoid of talent for an NBA team. But even as a team mostly comprised of 2nd rounders, it's a roster made up entirely of guys who were top 40 players in college and now have additional years to mature, get stronger and hone their craft against other professionals as opposed to the Notre Dames of the world. I think the 76ers win 8 times out of 10, but I'd love to see it.

Again, I disagree. Towns and Cauley Stein are monsters, Davis was a twig coming out. THey both have NBA ready bodies from day one. Most of the 76ers guys are rookies, not seasoned veterans, and very few of them were even second round draft picks.

[sperry]

The difference between an 82 game schedule and 40 or fewer cannot be overstated. College players aren't in the same kind of shape.

Most sixers players are on their first or second NBA seasons.

[Jaime L]

Again, I disagree. Towns and Cauley Stein are monsters, Davis was a twig coming out. THey both have NBA ready bodies from day one. Most of the 76ers guys are rookies, not seasoned veterans, and very few of them were even second round draft picks.

Jerami Grant, Furkan Aledmir, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Isaiah Canaan and Glenn Robinson III are all 2nd rounders. Plus Nerlens Noel, Thomas Robinson and Jason Richardson were all top 10 picks. Yeah they have some undrafted guys getting solid minutes, but even the lowly 76ers are like 70% drafted.

And because Jason Richardson fathered half this roster, they play like a family.

[Rhom]

I wouldn't say that Kentucky would be a lock against the Sixers by any means, however if they were to play a seven game series... I think there's a reasonable chance that they could win one of those games. And the fact that I can even say that with a straight face is huge testament both to the quality of UK's depth and the putritude of the Sixers'.

Duke and UNC especially are notorious for teaching fundamentals for the next level.

I suppose from a business sense, Calipari is setting them up nicely. Hell get you on an all star team for one year and get you deep in the tournament so you'll make a name and get drafted high while you are hot.

But MKG, Jon Wall, are terrible with the fundamentals, at times they look just a step above playground ball. JWall and Davis are freaks so they can overcome the rawness.

When players are staying only one year they can't learn much no matter who the coaching staff is

Engage rant in 3.....2...........1

probably the biggest part of why they raised the age limit of the NBA is because they were getting so many of these kids that were just athletes with no knowledge of the game and they were stinking up benches.

I think they should do it like baseball and just draft kids into the NBDL.

Most kids need 2-4 years of learning before pro

I would make the opposite argument. College is no place to develop skills for the pros. You have limitations on practice times, you have limitations on strength and conditioning time, your competition is not as advanced.

Jahlil Okafor could very well improve next year at Duke, but nowhere near as much as he could in the pros. There aren't any college centers that can give him a reasonable challenge defensively, but every NBA team has someone who can push him.

As to MKG, his shooting form has always been terrible (he made some admirable strides this past season to correct that and make it less offensive) but he is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA and has settled into a solid role for the Bobcats.

[Rhom]

We Need to Talk About How We Talk About John Calipari

There are parts of that article that aren't all bad, but it goes off the rails when it talks about Poythress. For one, at the end of that season, only Nerlens and Archie Goodwin were projected as first rounders. Poythress at best was considered a second round reach. So they whiffed on that part of it. Lastly, they point out this season's injury, but he was starting on the "blue platoon" ahead of Trey Lyles and looked every bit as dominant as he did early as a freshman but with all the same weaknesses. (Big energy guy, great finisher, weak creator, weak outside shooter.) Call me naïve if you will, but I don't believe Calipari ever lies to these kids at any point about what to expect at Kentucky. I take him at his word when he says that he tells them this place isn't for everyone and that you have to earn your minutes. I would offer up Dakari Johnson and Marcus Lee as an example. As the season wore on, it became readily apparent that Towns, WCS, and Lyles were the best front court players and they began to average more minutes as the season progressed. Calipari said that up front. This isn't a democracy, and minutes will go to guys who earn them. Or to put it in Rick Flair's terms, "To be the best you gotta beat the best." The Deadspin article was okay for most of it, until it tried to make a central point that Calipari is the only one who succeeds. The evidence is not there to justify that.

[sperry]

Poythress would have been a first round pick after his first year. He made a mistake coming back. Of course, anyone who will be a first round draft pick is making a mistake by coming back.

[Rhom]

Poythress would have been a first round pick after his first year. He made a mistake coming back. Of course, anyone who will be a first round draft pick is making a mistake by coming back.

Terrence Jones successfully upped his stock, however in the larger sense you are absolutely correct.

[Ded As Ned]

Poythress would have been a first round pick after his first year. He made a mistake coming back. Of course, anyone who will be a first round draft pick is making a mistake by coming back.

Money isn't everything. Nor the only thing. Some things are more important. It really irks me when someone chooses something more important to them than money and it's construed as a mistake. I apologize but this really strikes a chord with me. I'd rather be broke and happy than rich and miserable, or regretful, any day of the week.

Watch and see, Poythress, the Harrisons, Lee, Ulis, Johnson, and I wouldn't be surprised if WCS will all be back again next year, and the media circus will still be touting Cal as the evil demon of one-and-done.

[Rhom]

Money isn't everything. Nor the only thing. Some things are more important. It really irks me when someone chooses something more important to them than money and it's construed as a mistake. I apologize but this really strikes a chord with me. I'd rather be broke and happy than rich and miserable, or regretful, any day of the week.

Watch and see, Poythress, the Harrisons, Lee, Ulis, Johnson, and I wouldn't be surprised if WCS will all be back again next year, and the media circus will still be touting Cal as the evil demon of one-and-done.

I don't know that WCS will be back next year (but nothing would surprise me with him), the Harrison question is an interesting one. Both seem to be hovering in the second round, so the question becomes "Are you ready to quit playing with your brother even if it means likely playing overseas or in the D league?"

When they announced for Kentucky over Maryland they specifically said "For the next four years..." We all scoffed at the time, and admittedly if their stock hadn't plummeted we wouldn't be having this discussion, but it may actually play out that way.

[Rhom]

In less controversial news, I think we can all rejoice in the fact that ESPN has not renewed the contract of Robert Montgomery Knight.

Huzzah!!!!

[sperry]

Terrence Jones successfully upped his stock, however in the larger sense you are absolutely correct.

The issue there is marginal value. Your first round contract sets you for life. If you come back and up your stock, then you were basically just proving you can play. And if you proved you can play, you will get a second NBA contract, and being a year closer to that will make up the difference in value of first contracts.

Money isn't everything. Nor the only thing. Some things are more important. It really irks me when someone chooses something more important to them than money and it's construed as a mistake. I apologize but this really strikes a chord with me. I'd rather be broke and happy than rich and miserable, or regretful, any day of the week.

Watch and see, Poythress, the Harrisons, Lee, Ulis, Johnson, and I wouldn't be surprised if WCS will all be back again next year, and the media circus will still be touting Cal as the evil demon of one-and-done.

So Poythress went to the NBA factory because he wanted the college experience? Calipari runs the best professional basketball preparation program in the nation. Maybe Poythress went to MIT to major in poetry, but I'm guessing he went to prepare himself for the NBA.