sologdin Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 curious. i didn't read the weaver as a deus ex machina, at least in the macro-sense, even if it worked that way on the micro-level at times. seemed to me that SPOILER: jeahthe crisis engine stuff, which is just a gloss on marxian dialectical theses, is the real resolution to the most immediate narrative developments. curiously, that "engine" is a machine per se, and furthermore, because it is a hegelian-like metaphor for the Great Stalin's Historical Dialectic, it is like an idealist's god descending to rescue the protagonists--peculiarly here by interacting with robot characters i.e., more machines. so--the literal deus ex machina device of classical drama is inverted: the crisis engine itself is the machine that descends, upon other machines (especially if we read the non-robot characters as deleuze & guattari's "desiring machines"), in order to produce a eucatastrophe, courtesy of a seeming apotheosized dialectic. in this regard, the book really ends on a machina ex deo, and it is not at all irrational like the classical device proper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 wow. even if that was a spoiler, solo, I have NO IDEA what you just said (my fault, not yours). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixodes Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 wow. even if that was a spoiler, solo, I have NO IDEA what you just said (my fault, not yours). I am in the same boat. I am really impressed that Solo was thinking about those themes as he read that book. Myself, I was thinking "I wonder if you could rig that up with a Commodore 64 hooked up to a really big boom box." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint777 Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 I found the armada and sea monster and ship battles well done in the scar. I like sea stuff though. The best character was the vampire lord, especially his meeting with those naga type beings. And of the three books set in bas lag, the scar was the only one that had a vaguely non depressing ending. Iron council was just way out there. Sea monsters, slake moths, vampire lords, and Nagas? Hmm. I think I need to check these books out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeNic Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 curious. i didn't read the weaver as a deus ex machina, at least in the macro-sense, even if it worked that way on the micro-level at times. seemed to me that << Spoiler removed >> I am curious as well since Mieville is serous about his philosophy and the text under the spoiler banner hints at several layers not obvious to me (at all). Sologdin, could you clarify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 wow. even if that was a spoiler, solo, I have NO IDEA what you just said (my fault, not yours). History, according to Marx, is characterised by class struggle. When an old ruling class, as a result of economic change, loses its grip on society and finds itself seriously challenged by the rising power of a rival class, you get a period of social crisis (the old ruling class, being founded on an outmoded economic system, goes out with the system). In Mieville's work this process gets personified to some extent by the crisis engine. When the crisis engine helps shape plot developments, you thus get a purely-economic-turned-social process acting as "God". The "higher" power acting to conveniently shift the story (classical deus ex machina) is thus really a "lower" power in this case. This is what I think solo was getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 just finished this and liked enough to pick up the other two books in the same world. I thought some of his stuff was kind of painfully old-school d&d cheesiness (beautiful women with bugs for heads? come on) but I liked the city itself a lot and a lot of the social structures and cliques and so forth. the ending was also a total downer, but I was into the plot overall and I enjoyed reading it a lot. the weaver was a great character, and I loved his game at the end. SPOILER: perdidobut I was pretty upset by the fact that the ambassador from hell refused to assist them because he claimed that the moths couldn't be killed by conventional weapons as they existed on several planes at once, but then the final moth was killed by motley's crew (womp womp) by burning it. where's the consistency?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Well Wert, you covnerted me to put it in my top 12 to listen to in the next 2 to 3 years. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted December 27, 2006 Author Share Posted December 27, 2006 Cheers. This was one of the better reviews I did last year, so I now added it to my blog Wahey. On the women-bug-head things, I believe Mieville lifted them hook, line and mandible from the middle story in M. John Harrison's Viriconium collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry. Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Well, I've read and enjoyed Miéville's first three books, one novella, and one collection (probably need to re-read IC to see if it can be redeemed in my opinion) and I enjoyed most of what he attempted to do. Now because I'm genuinely curious about this, I'm going to be reading Miéville's Ph.D. thesis in a few days when it arrives by mail. Should be interesting to see how "orthodox" he'll be in examining International Law via Marxist precepts. I'll think about doing a full review of that one, just for those that might be curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Adder Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 heh. got confused when people kept mentioning King Rat as I'd just finished reading a novel by James Clavell of the same title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vethnar Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Cheers. This was one of the better reviews I did last year, so I now added it to my blog Wahey. On the women-bug-head things, I believe Mieville lifted them hook, line and mandible from the middle story in M. John Harrison's Viriconium collection. The khepris? No, they are lifted from Egyptian mythology. Perhaps John Harrison (whose books I have never read) have taken them from the same source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I'm a bit confused as to why people thought the Weavers was a Deus Ex Machina as well. After all, he was introduced by other people than the "heroes", plus the Weaver was one of the greatest characters in PSS. As for the ending, I both liked and disliked the ending of PSS. In many ways, it's an anti-ending. Maybe that's why I was more prepared when I started "The Scar", which I absolutely loved. The ending there was also an anti-ending, in many ways, but still really really good. I'm not sure why people complain so much about the plot in "The Scar". I can to some degree understand it with PSS since it was a bit slow in the middle, but I don't really understand it when it comes to "The Scar". Even though it doesn't feature New Crobuzon and the "oh" and "ah" that comes with that particula creation, I do think Mievielle managed to pull off the tale of Armada, the sea travelling and the Anophelii wonderfully. He inserts so many moments of tragic inevitability, even more so in "The Scar" than in PSS. I also think the supporting characters in "The Scar" were generally superior to the ones in PSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackaxx Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I had read 'The Scar' before this and had though, yeah, its Ok, but, nothing amazing. Im either in a different mindset, or, this is a far superior book. The city is a marvel, but, don't discount the characters. Marvelous stuff, really appealing. Enjoying the humor, the story, everything. Nice work and yes, I will dig up his other books now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauvka Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Something that's always bothered me: how do you pronounce the guy's name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackaxx Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Oh, and Isaac reminds me BIG TIME, of Balthazar Casaubon from Mary Gentles novels. Much much more than a passing resemblance there, thats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I enjoyed all of his novels a lot. although they all had some sort of hole or deficiency that was a little disappointing after finishing it (no resolution for PSS, the scar was one big plot hole, IC didn't really resolve much either), I'm glad I read all of them. it's funny that while he simultaneously creates some truly awesome scenes and characters (the weaver, the grindylow, the succession-of-different-golems near the end of IC), some of his others are so stupefyingly bad... I mean, mosquito-people? come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentat Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I just finished this and the ending really made me want to bite someone's head off... SPOILER: PSS I can't believe Isaac would just abandon Yagharek after all he'd done for him, regardless of his past crimes. I think Isaac is a bastard. I'm tempted to start a thread about this to see if people think it's moral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I just finished this and the ending really made me want to bite someone's head off... SPOILER: PSSI can't believe Isaac would just abandon Yagharek after all he'd done for him, regardless of his past crimes. I think Isaac is a bastard. I'm tempted to start a thread about this to see if people think it's moral. Holy Spoilers batman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 Holy fixed spoilers, now. Although I suppose I should perhaps do the Weaver ones above as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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