Mace Cooterian Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Well actually, speaking of the name "Alayne", I'm not sure if this has been pointed out to you before, but both Sansa and Arya adopt interesting fake names. These fake names are Cat, and Alayne. And what do you get when you combine these names? Cat + Alayne = CatAlayne CatAlayne = Catelyn Great observation. Wonder if George did that on purpose, or was it a coincidence. I believe Littlefinger gives her the name Alayne; but in the instance of Arya, she ask's for the name Cat. She bit her lip. "Could I be Cat?" "Cat." He considered. "yes, Braavos is full of cats. One more will not be noticed. 'snip'...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I caught the lemon thing straight away. LOL Did anyone else pick up on a little bit of a zing between Alayne and Roland Waynwood? She described him as pinched and horse-faced, but I got the impression that with him, the interest/charm may have been real. She did set a precedent of being attracted to unfortunate-looking guys that seemed to be conflicted by her. Re: the bolded, perhaps that is Sansa's skinchanging ability - she can adopt the persona of whoever she needs to be. Let's drink to lemons, both Dornish and Braavosi! :cheers: I don't think adopting personae can be called skinchanging, but we are definitely seeing Sansa blossoming in her gift. She's always been a master of courtesies, but instead of using them as shield and armor, we see her using them as a weapon to threaten and win the prizes she desires. Exactly. The way it's framed in that synopsis, the reveal is meant to be the payoff to a conflict that exists throughout the series, yet that conflict simply doesn't exist in the final product--there's no tortured longings, struggles with inappropriate attraction, or deadly love triangles. As it stands, it's a payoff to nothing, and concocting a last minute romantic conflict, that will then be immediately resolved with a secret parent reveal honestly sounds worse to me than the hidden heir trope. Yuuup, way worse. Not only is it a payoff for nothing, and pointless in terms of plot-resolution, it would be confusing to shoe-horn it in this late in the Song. Folks are waaay too excited about the possibility of Jon poking his eleven-year old "sister" in my opinion. As disturbing as our author gets at times, I think that it's even more disturbing to hope for something that wrong. Twincest is one thing, child molestation is quite another. I guess Sansa is the next best thing for them. At least she's a woman grown. Thank the gods GRRM scrapped the notion with the five-year gap :cheers: A couple things on Alayne: 1 - Alayne Stone sort of sounds like A Dayne stone. You know, like the magical one Dawn was forged/pulled from. Arthur, Excalibur, sword in the stone, etc. (How am I now just realizing this?). If Jon Dayne (?) is planning on sticking his "sword" in her, this makes perfect sense. :lol: Makes no matter if Tyrion lives. And the 1993 letter says he will... Sansa on the other hand.... :devil: While I have no doubt someone will eventually pluck her flower, LF's plans for her, and the interwebs' clamor for Jon+Sansa, will prove fruitless when the Imp returns. She's a married woman. Ser Shadrich was previously looking for Sansa Stark telling Brienne, "You are not the only hunter in the woods. I seek for Sansa Stark as well." That reference was the one that I connected to Shadrich's mentioning of the bag of dragons. That is a very nice catch Ser! :cheers: I tend to doze off during Brienne chapters and the names/events are extremely fuzzy. Except for "dog." :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superunknown5 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Well actually, speaking of the name "Alayne", I'm not sure if this has been pointed out to you before, but both Sansa and Arya adopt interesting fake names. These fake names are Cat, and Alayne. And what do you get when you combine these names? Cat + Alayne = CatAlayne CatAlayne = Catelyn Is joke, comrade. :commie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Let's drink to lemons, both Dornish and Braavosi! :cheers: I don't think adopting personae can be called skinchanging, but we are definitely seeing Sansa blossoming in her gift. She's always been a master of courtesies, but instead of using them as shield and armor, we see her using them as a weapon to threaten and win the prizes she desires. Yuuup, way worse. Not only is it a payoff for nothing, and pointless in terms of plot-resolution, it would be confusing to shoe-horn it in this late in the Song. Folks are waaay too excited about the possibility of Jon poking his eleven-year old "sister" in my opinion. As disturbing as our author gets at times, I think that it's even more disturbing to hope for something that wrong. Twincest is one thing, child molestation is quite another. I guess Sansa is the next best thing for them. At least she's a woman grown. Thank the gods GRRM scrapped the notion with the five-year gap :cheers: Makes no matter if Tyrion lives. And the 1993 letter says he will... Sansa on the other hand.... :devil: While I have no doubt someone will eventually pluck her flower, LF's plans for her, and the interwebs' clamor for Jon+Sansa, will prove fruitless when the Imp returns. She's a married woman. That is a very nice catch Ser! :cheers: I tend to doze off during Brienne chapters and the names/events are extremely fuzzy. Except for "dog." :D Maybe Sansa's power is like Camilla the Metamorph Star Trek Nex Generation episode "The perfect Mate" She woos men by knowing a potential mate wants and she becomes that.Only when she reaches the end of the "Fenestra" must she "bond with" her choosen mate. It's kinda Sansa in truth,she becomes what people want and expect her to be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oImlSZCAPnA ETA: Crap i just realized even the dress drawing Sansa is wearing is like Camilla's http://www.georgerrmartin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/alayne_stone_oakenvia.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Cooterian Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 As a matter of record, the following exchange of information is why I have no other reason to go anywhere else than right here.... Long time lurker of Heresy first time poster here. I was interested to what everyone thought about the idea of Sweet Robin slowly being poisoned by something. In the final Alayne chapter of Feast of Crows it says how Robin keeps sniffling. Robin says that he demanded that sweet-milk and that something was put into his drink. Coleman asks Sansa if Robin has been bleeding from the nose. Sansa says no. Sansa and Maester Coleman discuss how Robin had a cup of sweet-milk three days ago and that too much sweet-milk in the body in a specific time span well he trails off in his sentence but I am guessing too much in a short time period kills a person especially a child. Coleman again asks Sansa if he was bleeding and Sansa says he was sniffling but she saw no blood. At the end of that conversation Sansa as Alayne says that Robin should have a cup of sweet-milk before their descent from the Eyrie and tells him that he should have another cup at the feast. Coleman replies “Very well….But this must be the last. For half a year, or longer.” In the new Winds of Winter chapter George specifically writes that Robin wipes his nose. In the new Sansa chapter this section again caught my eye “He nodded, offered his arm, led her out onto the floor. As they waited for the music to resume, Alayne glanced at the dais, where Lord Robert sat staring at them. Please, she prayed, don’t let him start to twitch and shake. Not here. Not now. Maester Coleman would have made certain that he drank a strong dose of sweetmilk before the feast, but even so.” To me it sounds like Robin is slowly being poisoned and I know that Sansa can be an unreliable narrator and all that. Any thoughts?Did anyone else notice this interesting conversation as well? "snip" Well yeah, that was the whole point of arranging Sansa and Harry's betrothal, and not Sansa and Robert's betrothal because Harry will be the one ruling the Vale as Robert's going to die. I'll try and find the quote, but IIRC Littlefinger even said to Sansa something along the lines of "Really girl? You think Robert's going to live?" as if he knew he definitely was not. Her eyes widened. “He is not Lady Waynwood’s heir. He’s Robert’s heir. If Robert were to die...”Petyr arched an eyebrow. “When Robert dies. Our poor brave Sweetrobin is such a sickly boy, it is only a matter of time. When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn’s bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon... and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden’s cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back... why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa... Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell. That’s worth another kiss now, don’t you think?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Cooterian Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 While I have no doubt someone will eventually pluck her flower, LF's plans for her, and the interwebs' clamor for Jon+Sansa, will prove fruitless when the Imp returns. She's a married woman. So Voice...sounds as if you are advocating that the Half-Man will return and consummate the marriange vows with Sansa before someone else sticks their hands in the cookie jar. Or did I misunderstand you and the plucking will occur before the "returning"? If so, then by whom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Maybe Sansa's power is like Camilla the Metamorph Star Trek Nex Generation episode "The perfect Mate" She woos men by knowing a potential mate wants and she becomes that.Only when she reaches the end of the "Fenestra" must she "bond with" her choosen mate. It's kinda Sansa in truth,she becomes what people want and expect her to be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oImlSZCAPnA ETA: Crap i just realized even the dress drawing Sansa is wearing is like Camilla's http://www.georgerrmartin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/alayne_stone_oakenvia.jpg That's a pretty good analogy for Sansa. She definitely takes on the characteristics she thinks will be most pleasing to her mate. It still seems more like an acquired skill to me than an old gods gift, like skinchanging, but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 So Voice...sounds as if you are advocating that the Half-Man will return and consummate the marriange vows with Sansa before someone else sticks their hands in the cookie jar. Or did I misunderstand you and the plucking will occur before the "returning"? If so, then by whom? I think she's getting extremely comfortable being a bastard. She's able to use the skills she's learned in a much sharper way now that the tethers of ladyship have been cut away. She's got a swagger she didn't have as Sansa. I think she'll bed a man long before she becomes a polygamist, and be the initiator of the tryst. If Tyrion then returns, it would be hard for her to admit her exploits, and seem wanton. No one knows she and Tyrion didn't consummate the marriage already, after all, except for them... Edit: and I think she'll die before the end of WoW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 That's a pretty good analogy for Sansa. She definitely takes on the characteristics she thinks will be most pleasing to her mate. It still seems more like an acquired skill to me than an old gods gift, like skinchanging, but I could be wrong. It defintely be a different manifestaton of enthralling in this case men.Again its not how their gifts manifests,but exactly how are they shaping their gift or is it being shaped knowingly or not to the mentor. I like how that dude reffered to her as "The most beautiful woman in the seven Kingdoms".Wink wink possibly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 It defintely be a different manifestaton of enthralling in this case men.Again its not how their gifts manifests,but exactly how are they shaping their gift or is it being shaped knowingly or not to the mentor. I like how that dude reffered to her as "The most beautiful woman in the seven Kingdoms".Wink wink possibly? Sure. That line caught my eye as well, but I was thinking of it more in line with tymbq... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion XX Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Overall a decent chapter I think, although nothing much happens. Some things to take away: LF is going to manipulate the tourney so that Harry wins a wing and has to stay at Robert's court and thus he will be in LF's realm of influence. Bronze Yohn really should have known better. The Mad mouse might fuck things up though. Is he participating in the tourney? Anyway I am pretty certain the marriage will never happen. Too many people don't really want it (Randa, Waynwoods, Yohn Royce, the mad mouse, Sweetrobin, and even Sansa) and of course LF already laid put the plan in detail and GRRM never lets things develop exactly the way it was planned. Aurochs are not extinct like I thought, quite a surprise! Edit: And yeah I almost forgot: Nothing controversial at all in the chapter! Elio and Linda really must be quite prude if they think a teenage girl flirting is controversial.Yeah either it's a different chapter or.....*shudders* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Great observation. Wonder if George did that on purpose, or was it a coincidence. I believe Littlefinger gives her the name Alayne; but in the instance of Arya, she ask's for the name Cat. She bit her lip. "Could I be Cat?" "Cat." He considered. "yes, Braavos is full of cats. One more will not be noticed. 'snip'...." There's so many names that are alike or kept within a certain family within the series that I'm almost positive that he did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 As to Tyrion and Sansa it is perhaps worth remembering that an unconsumated marriage is just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romantic Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Possible controversy in the Sansa chapter. Robert is going to have 8, yes 8 bodyguards, 1 more than Tommen. Tommen will hear of this and demand 9 bodyguards leading to an escalating number of bodyguards on both sides. Eventually every male in Westeros will be Team Robert or Team Tommen. While their bodyguard armies meet in bloody battle, their ponies accidentally ride into each other and they fall off. They leave the battlefield to breed cats together. No males survive the battle and the Others swoop in. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I like it. "The Dance of the Kittens." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 As to Ser Shadrich, this line intrigued me: “A mouse with wings would be a silly sight.” In German however there is just such a thing; a fleidermaus or flying mouse - a bat. And oddly enough the "extinct" House Lothston, one-time Lords of Harrelhal had the bat as their sigil - and an evil reputation, with Lady Danelle seemingly modelled on Countess Bathory. She was also an ally of Bloodraven and supposedly the last of her line. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Danelle_Lothston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSmallOther Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 It defintely be a different manifestaton of enthralling in this case men.Again its not how their gifts manifests,but exactly how are they shaping their gift or is it being shaped knowingly or not to the mentor. I like how that dude reffered to her as "The most beautiful woman in the seven Kingdoms".Wink wink possibly? Ah, and "there will be another, more younger and more beautiful"? Indeed, it would be definately more fun if Sansa Stark, not Dany, would take everything from Cersei Lannister. Would fit to the original wolf against lion plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion06 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Ah, and "there will be another, more younger and more beautiful"? Indeed, it would be definately more fun if Sansa Stark, not Dany, would take everything from Cersei Lannister. Would fit to the original wolf against lion plot. I have my own crackpot that while Maggy did give Cersei a prophecy, it was only vague nonsense, and Cersei's paranoia is what keeps inventing the specific details. We've never had a prophecy in the series as absurdly detailed and specific as Cersei's, and it almost feels like the prophecy keeps getting increasingly specific and detailed the more Cersei's suspicions and fears start breaking her down over AFFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion XX Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Mance's treatment of Jon is also a bit fishy. Jon is a Stark, from the most honorable Northern family, which has also probably killed the most wildlings of any house. The nephew of the First Ranger. Yet he completely buys his desertion story, and immediately includes Jon in his inner circle, and even sends him along on the mission across the Wall. Why?! His raiders have crossed the Wall half a hundred times- they know the way to Castle Black. Sending Jon along is taking a huge risk. Even if he deserted for real- would he be able to kill his former brothers, attacking them unawares in the night? Mance is way too comfortable around Jon way too quickly. Because Jon is Mance's son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion XX Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 A beautiful bastard, and the Lord Protectors daughter. Petyr drew her close and kissed her on both cheeks. The night belongs to you, sweetling, Remember that, always. Sansa + Jon, the Night's King :)It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.