Eddard Stark as a king?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

What?Sorry didn't understand

Quoted For Truth.

[Walcraeb]

What if Eddard Stark had claimed the throne after finding Jaime sitting on it. Let's say Robert and Jon Arryn had allowed it. I really like Eddard, but I think his reign would end shortly. The reign would start in a very bad way if he had sent Jaime to the wall, beheaded Gregor and Armory Loch for the dead children and made Tywin answer for crimes his man made in Kings landing and not taken Cersei as wife. He was too good and honorable man to rule such a corrupted kingdom.

I think all that you said would have calmed the kingdom down a great deal. Would have been a real boring set of books then.

Ned's lack of a claim would have been the source of more problems and civil war.

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

“You should have taken the realm for yourself. It was there for the taking. Jaime told me how you found him on the Iron Throne the day King’s Landing fell, and made him yield it up. That was your moment. All you needed to do was climb those steps, and sit. Such a sad mistake.”

“I have made more mistakes than you can possibly imagine,” Ned said, “but that was not one of them.”

Which goes to show the great gift Robert got after the war... a lot of critics and judjment on the man but when it came the time, only Bob's ass had the stones to sit on that damn throne...

[LordPathera]

Ned Stark as king...

I think he'd be a good king on both ethical and pragmatic grounds.

Lots of people believe that Ned would be terrible since GOT tries really hard to paint Ned as a terrible politician.

He wasn't. He was unfamiliar with southern politics and did make mistakes, not denying that. But that doesn't mean he was hopeless, especially when dealing with players who've been playing "The Game" for longer than Ned was Lord of the North. Plus, the inordinate amounts of bad luck that Ned dealt with didn't help matters.

And another detail is that Ned was entering someone else's court and that court was unfamiliar territory.

If he'd taken the throne from the start as king, I doubt that would be as much of a problem.

First off, he'd have the support of the Riverlands through marriage; Robert's support through the Stormlands; and the Vale through Jon Arryn, in addition to the North and the Crownlands. That's half of the 7 kingdoms right there.

The Reach would side with the strongest and again, Ned has half of the 7 kingdoms backing him. Mace may even attempt to betroth Margery to Robb so that his family will be more strongly entrenched with the power of the newly crowned king on the Iron Throne.

Dorne would probably be grateful to Ned for getting justice for Elia and her children though whether they'd actually support Ned depends on how much they hold him responsible for Elia's death. Then again, it is public knowledge that Ned was disgusted with the death of her children and I don't see any account of Dorne holding a grudge against Ned or the North for their part in the rebellion. So it's likely that Dorne would give token support to Eddard while still scheming to put Danerys back on the throne at a latter time.

I'm not certain if Benjen would still take the black or be appointed as Lord-Paramount of the North.

Balon Greyjoy would still rebel and still get crushed. Theon is taken as a hostage of the Iron Throne just like before.

Tywin wouldn't approve of Jamie being sent to the Wall or the execution of Gregor. However, Tywin is not an idiot and knows how to pick his battles. Tywin would figure that fighting against Ned would be foolish and he'd have no allies. While his own men are fresh compared to the rest of the realm, Tywin is still dealing with at least 3 separate kingdoms lead by experience and battle-hardened men and for what gain? If Tywin did want to make a move against King Eddard, it would be later through influence and scheming rather than arms and open rebellion.

Secondly, the Small Council would likely end up with the same people as it did with Robert, only Ned would have an active part in ruling the 7 kingdoms. He wouldn't throw the realm into debt due to being a far more responsible and modest individual and thus neither the Faith nor the Lannisters would be able to have as much leverage as they did with Robert. There's no potential succession crisis as Cat and Ned were faithful and loving of each other even if Jon's existence remains a point of contention. So there's three major points in Ned's favor.

Now for the exploration of the butterfly effect. With Ned as king and already having a wife, Tywin would not be able to wed Cersei to the new king. Robert doesn't have as much appeal either since he's only a Lord Paramount, but as Tywin is trying to lay the seeds of power, he'd still marry Cersei to Robert anyway. No Jamie around means that Robert's kids will definitely be his unless Cersei drinks moon tea and/or aborts all of Robert's children out of spite. Either way, Robert still likely whores and around and has at least three bastard children that can be legitimized as heirs in case Robert doesn't have any trueborn kids with Cersei or Robert may even ask Ned to legitimize one or some of his bastards just to spite Cersei.

Thirdly, I'm certain that Ned would shore up his support from major allies through marriages such as Jon Snow to Mya Stone (both are bastards, so no need for legitimization); Robb to Margery; Arya to Edric Baratheon (assuming that he's been legitimized); Bran to Shireen; Rickon to Loreza Sand; and Sansa to Harold Hardying (Sweet Robert isn't long for the world after all and bethrothing Sansa to her cousin doesn't seem like something Ned would do)

Fourthly, there's less of a chance for instability which Varys and Littlefinger require for their plans. A major reason why Varys and Littlefinger were able to stir things so well was because of Robert's blatant incompetence as a ruler which left many openings. With Ned taking an active and responsible part in running the kingdoms, that means the two schemers would have to work really hard to create some kind of mess that would trip up Ned. Their best chance being Tywin or even Roose Bolton, but neither would try anything unless they had a reasonable chance of winning or gaining something in the long term. There's also exposing R+L=J which would spark a revolt with Robert at the lead, but the only one's who knew that were Ned and Howland Reed and I'm not certain about any difference which would keep Ned from taking that secret to his grave.

Any attempt at a Targaryen take-back would be met with heavy resistance due to lingering memories of the Mad King and Rhaegar's abduction of Lyanna. Aegon and his Golden Company would be invading a more united Stormlands lead by someone whose been waiting for a fight. Do you really think Robert would resist the urge to bash in the head of another Dragon? Robert would stomp Aegon and the Golden Company so hard that bards will sing of "The Last Dragon and the Storm of Wrath" for generations to come.

Dany would have a better chance due to the potential vassalage of the Dothraki; thousands of freedmen; the Unsullied; and 3 fully grown dragons. But it would be far from easy. If Tywin tried to offer his aid, Dany would turn him into a fried lion and feed him to the goats. Seeing as that Tyrion hates his father and is grateful for being the new lord of Casterly Rock, he'd probably support the Mother of Dragons if he got to ride one of them. Dorne's leaders are Targaryen loyalists and would support her though with no hard feelings against Ned. I'm uncertain about the Reach or the Iron Islands. Dany may win or Ned may defeat her; but the damage would be heavy for the 7 Kingdoms and could make the realms decide to go back to being independent kingdoms.

As for the Return of the Others and the Wildling Invasion? Unless Jon Snow still joins the Wall in spite of having multiple opportunities to make a name for himself, I can see things going south very quickly. Mormont is assassinated by a wight as I don't believe he ever actively wore/used Longclaw and whoever takes command gets blindsided by the wildlings and the others. The Wildlings would invade the North which would prompt King Eddard to send someone to fight them and then he learns about the Others as they begin to invade the North on the heels of the wildlings. (Assuming that the Wall's magic fails when the Night's Watch fails) I'm not certain about how Jamie Lannister's presence on the wall would influence matters, he may even become Mormont's successor or First Ranger.

All in all, I think Eddard Stark would have been a good king with a good reign despite some inevitable dangers and problems. Another thing to consider is that Ned would also be way more respected and beloved in light of the Mad King's reign of terror. Who wouldn't like an actively responsible, honorable, just, strong and wise ruler? I'd imagine the list being relatively short for much of Eddard's reign.

[Draco_Dracul]

What if Eddard Stark had claimed the throne after finding Jaime sitting on it. Let's say Robert and Jon Arryn had allowed it. I really like Eddard, but I think his reign would end shortly. The reign would start in a very bad way if he had sent Jaime to the wall, beheaded Gregor and Armory Loch for the dead children and made Tywin answer for crimes his man made in Kings landing and not taken Cersei as wife. He was too good and honorable man to rule such a corrupted kingdom.

Not necessarily, he as a very, very important asset that no one else does. He has a son of age with Margaery Tyrell. We know Robb was born before the war ended because he's older than Jon.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

If Tywin hires the Golden Company and has the alliance of the Reach wich is not that difficult The other four kingdoms don't have a chance unless they get dorne and the Iron Islands

The Targaryens had the Reach and Dorne and they lost.

The rebels simply need to invade the Westerlands while keeping Tywin and his forces bottled up in King's Landing and cut off his power, gold and reinforcements.

[The Wolves]

You should have taken the realm for yourself. It was there for the taking. Jaime told me how you found him on the Iron Throne the day Kings Landing fell, and made him yield it up. That was your moment. All you needed to do was climb those steps, and sit. Such a sad mistake.

I have made more mistakes than you can possibly imagine, Ned said, but that was not one of them.

Which goes to show the great gift Robert got after the war... a lot of critics and judjment on the man but when it came the time, only Bob's ass had the stones to sit on that damn throne...

Robert taking the throne showed how stupid he was to take it, it wasn't courage or anything else except stupidity and his need to say feck you to the Targs.

Ned was the smart one he didn't want the ugly thing and why would he? He knew he didn't want to be king he had a father, sister, brother to bury, 2 sons to care for and a region to get ready for winter, he wanted nothing to do with that chair.

[Draco_Dracul]

If Tywin hires the Golden Company and has the alliance of the Reach wich is not that difficult The other four kingdoms don't have a chance unless they get dorne and the Iron Islands

Why would the reach ally with the Lannisters when they can marry into the royal family instead?

[The Santa of House Claus]

Ned Stark as king...

I think he'd be a good king on both ethical and pragmatic grounds.

Lots of people believe that Ned would be terrible since GOT tries really hard to paint Ned as a terrible politician.

He wasn't. He was unfamiliar with southern politics and did make mistakes, not denying that. But that doesn't mean he was hopeless, especially when dealing with players who've been playing "The Game" for longer than Ned was Lord of the North. Plus, the inordinate amounts of bad luck that Ned dealt with didn't help matters.

And another detail is that Ned was entering someone else's court and that court was unfamiliar territory.

If he'd taken the throne from the start as king, I doubt that would be as much of a problem.

First off, he'd have the support of the Riverlands through marriage; Robert's support through the Stormlands; and the Vale through Jon Arryn, in addition to the North and the Crownlands. That's half of the 7 kingdoms right there.

The Reach would side with the strongest and again, Ned has half of the 7 kingdoms backing him. Mace may even attempt to betroth Margery to Robb so that his family will be more strongly entrenched with the power of the newly crowned king on the Iron Throne.

Dorne would probably be grateful to Ned for getting justice for Elia and her children though whether they'd actually support Ned depends on how much they hold him responsible for Elia's death. Then again, it is public knowledge that Ned was disgusted with the death of her children and I don't see any account of Dorne holding a grudge against Ned or the North for their part in the rebellion. So it's likely that Dorne would give token support to Eddard while still scheming to put Danerys back on the throne at a latter time.

I'm not certain if Benjen would still take the black or be appointed as Lord-Paramount of the North.

Balon Greyjoy would still rebel and still get crushed. Theon is taken as a hostage of the Iron Throne just like before.

Tywin wouldn't approve of Jamie being sent to the Wall or the execution of Gregor. However, Tywin is not an idiot and knows how to pick his battles. Tywin would figure that fighting against Ned would be foolish and he'd have no allies. While his own men are fresh compared to the rest of the realm, Tywin is still dealing with at least 3 separate kingdoms lead by experience and battle-hardened men and for what gain? If Tywin did want to make a move against King Eddard, it would be later through influence and scheming rather than arms and open rebellion.

Secondly, the Small Council would likely end up with the same people as it did with Robert, only Ned would have an active part in ruling the 7 kingdoms. He wouldn't throw the realm into debt due to being a far more responsible and modest individual and thus neither the Faith nor the Lannisters would be able to have as much leverage as they did with Robert. There's no potential succession crisis as Cat and Ned were faithful and loving of each other even if Jon's existence remains a point of contention. So there's three major points in Ned's favor.

Now for the exploration of the butterfly effect. With Ned as king and already having a wife, Tywin would not be able to wed Cersei to the new king. Robert doesn't have as much appeal either since he's only a Lord Paramount, but as Tywin is trying to lay the seeds of power, he'd still marry Cersei to Robert anyway. No Jamie around means that Robert's kids will definitely be his unless Cersei drinks moon tea and/or aborts all of Robert's children out of spite. Either way, Robert still likely whores and around and has at least three bastard children that can be legitimized as heirs in case Robert doesn't have any trueborn kids with Cersei or Robert may even ask Ned to legitimize one or some of his bastards just to spite Cersei.

Thirdly, I'm certain that Ned would shore up his support from major allies through marriages such as Jon Snow to Mya Stone (both are bastards, so no need for legitimization); Robb to Margery; Arya to Edric Baratheon (assuming that he's been legitimized); Bran to Shireen; Rickon to Loreza Sand; and Sansa to Harold Hardying (Sweet Robert isn't long for the world after all and bethrothing Sansa to her cousin doesn't seem like something Ned would do)

Fourthly, there's less of a chance for instability which Varys and Littlefinger require for their plans. A major reason why Varys and Littlefinger were able to stir things so well was because of Robert's blatant incompetence as a ruler which left many openings. With Ned taking an active and responsible part in running the kingdoms, that means the two schemers would have to work really hard to create some kind of mess that would trip up Ned. Their best chance being Tywin or even Roose Bolton, but neither would try anything unless they had a reasonable chance of winning or gaining something in the long term. There's also exposing R+L=J which would spark a revolt with Robert at the lead, but the only one's who knew that were Ned and Howland Reed and I'm not certain about any difference which would keep Ned from taking that secret to his grave.

Any attempt at a Targaryen take-back would be met with heavy resistance due to lingering memories of the Mad King and Rhaegar's abduction of Lyanna. Aegon and his Golden Company would be invading a more united Stormlands lead by someone whose been waiting for a fight. Do you really think Robert would resist the urge to bash in the head of another Dragon? Robert would stomp Aegon and the Golden Company so hard that bards will sing of "The Last Dragon and the Storm of Wrath" for generations to come.

Dany would have a better chance due to the potential vassalage of the Dothraki; thousands of freedmen; the Unsullied; and 3 fully grown dragons. But it would be far from easy. If Tywin tried to offer his aid, Dany would turn him into a fried lion and feed him to the goats. Seeing as that Tyrion hates his father and is grateful for being the new lord of Casterly Rock, he'd probably support the Mother of Dragons if he got to ride one of them. Dorne's leaders are Targaryen loyalists and would support her though with no hard feelings against Ned. I'm uncertain about the Reach or the Iron Islands. Dany may win or Ned may defeat her; but the damage would be heavy for the 7 Kingdoms and could make the realms decide to go back to being independent kingdoms.

As for the Return of the Others and the Wildling Invasion? Unless Jon Snow still joins the Wall in spite of having multiple opportunities to make a name for himself, I can see things going south very quickly. Mormont is assassinated by a wight as I don't believe he ever actively wore/used Longclaw and whoever takes command gets blindsided by the wildlings and the others. The Wildlings would invade the North which would prompt King Eddard to send someone to fight them and then he learns about the Others as they begin to invade the North on the heels of the wildlings. (Assuming that the Wall's magic fails when the Night's Watch fails) I'm not certain about how Jamie Lannister's presence on the wall would influence matters, he may even become Mormont's successor or First Ranger.

All in all, I think Eddard Stark would have been a good king with a good reign despite some inevitable dangers and problems. Another thing to consider is that Ned would also be way more respected and beloved in light of the Mad King's reign of terror. Who wouldn't like an actively responsible, honorable, just, strong and wise ruler? I'd imagine the list being relatively short for much of Eddard's reign.

Good analysist. I agree with most except for the marriages. If Dany and Viserys still escape the. Margaery is the obvious choice for Robb. You legitimize to many bastards to easily and marriage between high born bastards does not really do a lot for alliances. Sansa would be a good match for a Martell, and Arya or Bran for some Lannister marriage of Cersei's to Robert or someone else.

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

Robert taking the throne showed how stupid he was to take it, it wasn't courage or anything else except stupidity and his need to say feck you to the Targs.

Ned was the smart one he didn't want the ugly thing and why would he? He knew he didn't want to be king he had a father, sister, brother to bury, 2 sons to care for and a region to get ready for winter, he wanted nothing to do with that chair.

Yes, Ned was extremely smart, it gave him a lot more years to live happily and peacefully...

“Damn you, Ned Stark. You and Jon Arryn, I loved you both. What have you done to me? You were the one should have been king, you or Jon.”

“You had the better claim, Your Grace.”

He was pushed to the throne, by his better claim... advised to it by Jon and Ned (smartly, because he was the one that could unite westeros) but nontheless, he did not want that throne

"The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me. A crown . . . it was the girl I prayed them for. Your sister, safe . . . and mine again, as she was meant to be. I ask you, Ned, what good is it to wear a crown? The gods mock the prayers of kings and cowherds alike."

Would've Ned or Jon showed any desire to be on the IT... Robert would gladly run away to the Stormlands and get the time of his life, giving zero craps...

[The Wolves]

Yes, Ned was extremely smart, it gave him a lot more years to live happily and peacefully...

Damn you, Ned Stark. You and Jon Arryn, I loved you both. What have you done to me? You were the one should have been king, you or Jon.

You had the better claim, Your Grace.

He was pushed to the throne, by his better claim... advised to it by Jon and Ned (smartly, because he was the one that could unite westeros) but nontheless, he did not want that throne

"The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me. A crown . . . it was the girl I prayed them for. Your sister, safe . . . and mine again, as she was meant to be. I ask you, Ned, what good is it to wear a crown? The gods mock the prayers of kings and cowherds alike."

Would've Ned or Jon showed any desire to be on the IT... Robert would gladly run away to the Stormlands and get the time of his life, giving zero craps...

If Robert did not want that throne than all he had to do when the rebels proclaimed him king was say "no" it's that easy Ned did not take it, Aemon walked away from it and Im sure others have turned away from it.

That throne was not forced on Robert he had a choice more choices than many let's not absolve Robert of his mistakes.

[Lee-Sensei]

If Robert did not want that throne than all he had to do when the rebels proclaimed him king was say "no" it's that easy Ned did not take it, Aemon walked away from it and Im sure others have turned away from it.

That throne was not forced on Robert he had a choice more choices than many let's not absolve Robert of his mistakes.

Let's not absolve Ned and Jon of their part in it.

[The Wolves]

Let's not absolve Ned and Jon of their part in it.

What part? The suggestion that Robert take the throne okay they had a dumb idea it still doesn't take away Robert's ability to tell people he didn't want to be king.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Yes, Ned was extremely smart, it gave him a lot more years to live happily and peacefully...

“Damn you, Ned Stark. You and Jon Arryn, I loved you both. What have you done to me? You were the one should have been king, you or Jon.”

“You had the better claim, Your Grace.”

He was pushed to the throne, by his better claim... advised to it by Jon and Ned (smartly, because he was the one that could unite westeros) but nontheless, he did not want that throne

"The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me. A crown . . . it was the girl I prayed them for. Your sister, safe . . . and mine again, as she was meant to be. I ask you, Ned, what good is it to wear a crown? The gods mock the prayers of kings and cowherds alike."

Would've Ned or Jon showed any desire to be on the IT... Robert would gladly run away to the Stormlands and get the time of his life, giving zero craps...

I agree with this. Robert never wanted to be king. Becoming king was the worst thing that ever happened to him. He would have made a fine Storm Lord.

Actually, if he and his forces had joined the Rebels before the Trident, and Targ blood didn't matter, I think that perhaps they would have considered putting Tywin on the throne. But after the sack of King's Landing and what Tywin's boys did to Elia and the children, Dorne would have seceded from the realm... and Oberyn would have sent one of his girls to poison Tywin's food.

[LordQorgyle]

If Ned order Tywin's arrest he's a dead man since is Tywin that controls the city and not him..

And the Reach didn't participate in the trident if they had the result would be different

[Nefertari]

I still think he wouldn't have last.

We can't take Winterfell as a example, since in the North the Starks have never been questioned(except by the Bolton maybe).

Even as the Hand he didn't last, it would have been the same if he was the King.

I don't think that the Lannisters would accept to go to the Wall because "they had no choice", they would have fight back, and they would have won.

Why?

Because they are not honorable and they can play dirty, a thing that Ned isn't able to do(there are different way to win a war)

[LordQorgyle]

Not to mention that the Lannisters alone have 60000 man while the rebels are desgasted force, the Stormlords,Riverlords and some of the Vale lords were dizimated and the rest of the northern forces are too far North while Tywin as the control of the capital, as his forces intact and have money to contract a LOT of mercenaries

[Jon's Queen Consort]

But, but people will help Ned because he is so charismatic and honorable and no one will come against him.

[lyannaisalive]

If Ned order Tywin's arrest he's a dead man since is Tywin that controls the city and not him..

And the Reach didn't participate in the trident if they had the result would be different

Tywin does not control the city. Ned marched south with the majority of the rebel army. Tywin even admits the was chaos and he claims he "forgot about elia" because ned was marching south and he feared there might be war between his troops and neds. Ned finds jaime on the throne. Ned controlled the city the minute he entered it. And lets not ignore that the citizens themselves hate Tywin, if there is a struggle for the city they will help Ned if they get involved.

[lyannaisalive]

Not to mention that the Lannisters alone have 60000 man while the rebels are desgasted force, the Stormlords,Riverlords and some of the Vale lords were dizimated and the rest of the northern forces are too far North while Tywin as the control of the capital, as his forces intact and have money to contract a LOT of mercenaries

Tywin doesn't have 60000 men in KL, he only had about 12000 with him.